Natty Plunges into DARKNESS

[NattyForLife]

Okay gents, im turning 22 next month, and its crossed my mind to fetch into the PED world a bit! Im looking at taking my first plunge using SARMs! Ive done some research, and i think Osta and LGD could be the ones for me! Im staying away from GW(technically not SARM though) for cancer causing reasons. Now before you start saying that GW doesnt cause cancer, i dont care; your not gonna persuade me to use it! I have a friend that i trust(he is very smart regarding PEDs/AAS), and he said stay away from it and that is exactly what im gonna do! So here is what im thinking! An 8-10 week cycle of SARMs starting with a slight caloric deficit and when LGd comes in, turn into a lean bulk!

Osta 15/15/15/15/20/20/20/20/25/25
LGD 0/0/0/0/4/4/4/8/8/8

Will have exemastane on hand as AI.
Will also have tuarine. 3-5g

Clomid 50/50/25/25


Also have debated introducing GHRPs since they are more safer than PHs/SARMs with sub-q injections! Just let me know what y'all think. Basically, i want to go the most safest route that produces the best results!

 

[afluck410]

I believe people like Yates are going to recommend running one or the other. I think they compete for the same receptors (don't quote me on this) if anything they'd recommend bridging from osta to LGD to continue gains and not have them fight for receptors

 

[Joedoubledose]

Run either osta or run LGD I wouldn't run both . Imo it's a waste . If you wanna cut use osta if you wanna add mass use LGD . Besides that you look good. It'd be better to do one goal in one cycle you know what I'm saying instead of trying to transition mid cycle ?

 

[NattyForLife]

Ostarine- 15/15/20/20/20/25/25/30/30/30
Aromasin- 12.5mg EOD
Will have taurine @3-5g
Also, gonna throw in dermacrine as a test base. Could throw in derm-trest....OPINIONS?!?
PCT- Clomid @50/50/25/25

 

[NattyForLife]

Any other support supps needed in cycle or PCT?

 

[Gutterpump]

Ostarine- 15/15/20/20/20/25/25/30/30/30
Aromasin- 12.5mg EOD
Will have taurine @3-5g
Also, gonna throw in dermacrine as a test base. Could throw in derm-trest....OPINIONS?!?
PCT- Clomid @50/50/25/25

Dermacrine is great stuff. Trest is also great, but I would not combine Trest with Osta because of the estrogenic sides.
Osta increases estrogen sensitivity, trest massively increases estrogen, a recipe for gyno!!

 

[booneman77]

A few things... At 22 you should still be in the prime of your natural hormonal days so I would really consider waiting a bit longer to start messing with them. I know you work hard but maybe you need to experiment with some new techniques or diet strategies first before resorting to the dark side.

Trust me, it will only lead you further down that path and make it harder to think you can gain or lose naturally again. It's a big step, so think long and hard.

10 weeks is way too long for a first cycle (that's not test). Even of osta.

Honestly, I'm not much of a fan of osta so take that as it may be. It suppressed me worse than other things and provided none of the benefits.

If you're dead set on osta, stick to 8 weeks max. Have an ai on hand (like you said), and consider a test base (as you have). Dermacrine is solid from what I hear (no personal experience) and derma trest should be ten times better, but at that point will prob just overshadow the osta, making it a waste of money at that point (the osta that is).

 

[Joedoubledose]

8 weeks and don't go over 20 mgs as that's there's no longer benefits after that dose and increased sides

 

[Joedoubledose]

Deff don't touch trest as your first cycle either

 

[NattyForLife]

Deff don't touch trest as your first cycle either

I kind of figured that would have been said!

 

[NattyForLife]

Whats a good estimate for gains/bodyfat lost while eating at maintenance(recomping) for this cycle! Your right booneman; im asking the above question to help me decide to stay natty for now! So what gains would i expect out of this?

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

In for this as well, Im 22 and going to be starting my 6 week cycle of osta going 15/15/15/20/20/20. Any reason to use clomid over nolva?

 

[mw1]

8 weeks and don't go over 20 mgs as that's there's no longer benefits after that dose and increased sides

Agreed it will shut you down worse than most PHs

 

[Joedoubledose]

Clomid or nolva is user preference really

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Agreed it will shut you down worse than most PHs

When I was searching about Osta all of the threads from like 3 years ago were saying it was like magic and didnt have a single negative side effect hah

 

[rascal14]

Agreed it will shut you down worse than most PHs

Are you talking about Osta or Trest?

 

[NattyForLife]

Would LGD be a better choice?

 

[Joedoubledose]

It all depends on goals man

 

[NattyForLife]

Recomp

 

[mw1]

When I was searching about Osta all of the threads from like 3 years ago were saying it was like magic and didnt have a single negative side effect hah

It lowered my test to 54.....no pH ever lowered it that much

 

[mw1]

Are you talking about Osta or Trest?

Osta. I like it but I would only use it for 4-5 weeks at 20mgs now

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

It lowered my test to 54.....no pH ever lowered it that much

D*mn. How long did you take it and what dose?

 

[NattyForLife]

Heck, i might as well run a full blown PH then!!

 

[mw1]

D*mn. How long did you take it and what dose?

10 weeks at 20-30mgs. The majority of the cycle was at 20mgs

 

[rascal14]

Osta. I like it but I would only use it for 4-5 weeks at 20mgs now

Wow. It's crazy how people used to say it wasn't suppressive. Even today there's people who still recommend it for PCT! Lol

 

[Joedoubledose]

I'd run OL UK LeGenD for at 4 mgs the first two weeks then 8mgs the remaining 6 for a total of 8 weeks at maintenance with dermacrine as a test base and nolva 20/20/10/10 for pct , epic by OL in pct at labeled dosage boom

 

[rascal14]

Heck, i might as well run a full blown PH then!!

Honestly this is the way I see it. You're shutting yourself down anyways, you may as well get more gains out of it.

If I were you, I'd run the Trest too. But I tend to not be very conservative. Lol

 

[NattyForLife]

Honestly this is the way I see it. You're shutting yourself down anyways, you may as well get more gains out of it.

If I were you, I'd run the Trest too. But I tend to not be very conservative. Lol

My point exactly, if im gonna shut myself down, i might as well get some good gains out of it!

 

[mw1]

Wow. It's crazy how people used to say it wasn't suppressive. Even today there's people who still recommend it for PCT! Lol

Yes, I don't think there could be a worse recommendation for pct

 

[NattyForLife]

DMZ+MSTEN=epicness

 

[NattyForLife]

But seriously regarding osta in PCT, even at 5mg is it suppressive?

 

[Joedoubledose]

Keep in mind trest was originally intended as a male contraceptive .... It will shut you down hard and being inexperienced with anabolics may bite off more then you can chew

 

[Joedoubledose]

It's suppressive as low as 3mgs

 

[NewAgeMayan]

But seriously regarding osta in PCT, even at 5mg is it suppressive?

Dont use Ostar in your PCT, especially for a first cycle and especially if you are not going to get any bloods done. Most guys who successfully use Ostar as part of their PCT are experienced users.

 

[rascal14]

Dont use Ostar in your PCT, especially for a first cycle and especially if you are not going to get any bloods done. Most guys who successfully use Ostar as part of their PCT are experienced users.

Or it's the people using sketchy RC sites and it isn't really Osta.

 

[rascal14]

NattyForLife it is really just up to what you feel like doing. Everyone has different opinions and every responds differently to all of these compounds. PCT could be a breeze for you after a 6 month Tren run, or you could never recover ever again after a 6 week Osta cycle. Although neither of those seem very likely, it could very well happen. There's no way to tell how your body will respond.

It all just comes down to how much you want to risk.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

My point exactly, if im gonna shut myself down, i might as well get some good gains out of it!

You've got years of experimentation ahead of you, though I of course understand the temptation to go all in.

Pick a SARM and run it. Id personally opt for LGD, solo, and run it as Joe recommended. Maybe have Derma available if lethargy gets too much.

I think the general philosophy of taking things slowly here has much merit. I mean, would you recommend a newb to run a stack of ABE + Xgels + Myosynergy + PA as their first foray into natty anabolics?

 

[booneman77]

Whats a good estimate for gains/bodyfat lost while eating at maintenance(recomping) for this cycle! Your right booneman; im asking the above question to help me decide to stay natty for now! So what gains would i expect out of this?

Check out the osta log I did a couple months back. It really gave me no benefit for body comp even in a deficit. I felt like garbage by the end and ended up just going straight to a real cycle (epi/Tren) after and saw immediate gains and fat loss as well as less sides (and still with no test base type ph).

As said above, osta in pct is idiotic. At the studied dose of 3mg it was shown suppressive in just a few weeks. Anyone who says it "helped" probably didn't get bloodwork or had bunk rc osta.

I think you're hoping for a magic pill here and that's not what you're gonna get. If you can't get your diet and training to give you the results you want (albeit slowly), then a ph/sarm/aas/etc will only help you a little. They merely magnify the impact of good diet and training strategies, not circumvent them.

My best advice is to get everything straight.go hard and Tibet with diet and training until progress is totally stopped no matter what you try for a significant period (months even, not just two weeks or something). Once you hit that point, then introduce something new.

If you've hit a compete plateau at 22, either you're natural hormones are terrible (which you should get medically checked, not just assume) or you're doing something incorrect with your diet or training.

 

[Big_sxc]

The guys bagging osta in pct haven't tried it. And haven't taken blood work before. It is magic in pct. Dont knock it. U will fully recover aswell don't kid urself its very useful

 

[rascal14]

The guys bagging osta in pct haven't tried it. And haven't taken blood work before. It is magic in pct. Dont knock it. U will fully recover aswell don't kid urself its very useful

Don't listen to this guy. Lol

 

[Big_sxc]

I'll give you bloods to prove it rascal. And your just going by what others have told you. And what you have read. Not what you have tried. Don't be a loser and spread bs broscience when I'm speaking from my own anecdotal reports.

 

[CJNator]

Every SARM is different on everyone. Ive read it effects some peoples liver values, my prostate enlarged on LGD, and then there is everything else. I don't take a PCT with Osta and never needed to. LGD its needed for me. IMO have everything that you may need just in case you do need it and if you don't you can save it.

 

[rascal14]

I'll give you bloods to prove it rascal. And your just going by what others have told you. And what you have read. Not what you have tried. Don't be a loser and spread bs broscience when I'm speaking from my own anecdotal reports.

No one has told me anything. I've seen countless blood work from people using Osta and being suppressed or shut down. It very well could have been just fine for your PCT, because like I said everything effects everyone differently. And if it does then that is awesome for you and you're truly lucky.

But, it is his first cycle and it would be dumb for him to run something that is potentially just as suppressive as his cycle, during his PCT. Maybe after he has more experience it would be okay for him to experiment.

 

[yates84]

I wouldn't run osta in pct, especially if your cycle is osta! Everyone is different and will be effected by it different but for me osta really slowed my recovery. Been there, tried it, won't ever do it again. Epic unleashed is my go to pct staple, it's non hormonal and will give you the extra edge you will be looking for in pct. I prefer clomid over nolva because clomid is much better at restarting the hpta. Looking forward to seeing your progress NattyForLife!

 

[NattyForLife]

I know not to run osta in PCT especially if my cycle is osta! Lol!

 

[Smont]

Osta is very user dependent. Some get crushed and some get no suppression at all. You wont know till you try but id say that experiment is for seasoned users. If you run osta and bloodwork shows no suppression then go for it in pct, why not! But if you are one of the MANY that osta crush your test then absolutely not.

 

[NattyForLife]

Ive made my decision up gents! Im gonna stick natty until this spring, and then im gonna run a Ph most likely! Gonna just skip the SARM! It will give me plenty of time to get support supps, research more, etc! Also will give me plenty of time to get bloods run which i never have done! Cant wait to see what my natty test is!

 

[booneman77]

Ive made my decision up gents! Im gonna stick natty until this spring, and then im gonna run a Ph most likely! Gonna just skip the SARM! It will give me plenty of time to get support supps, research more, etc! Also will give me plenty of time to get bloods run which i never have done! Cant wait to see what my natty test is!

I like this decision ha. As much as I encourage people to experiment, there's a time and place for it.

If your bloods come back with naturally good levels, you should absolutely stay off even longer and just reap all the benefits.

Never forget that one cycle could permanently shut you down and force you onto trt as well as a myriad of potential hormonal and childbearing issues. It's not a common thing, but it can happen so you'd better be sure you're ready.

 

[yates84]

Ive made my decision up gents! Im gonna stick natty until this spring, and then im gonna run a Ph most likely! Gonna just skip the SARM! It will give me plenty of time to get support supps, research more, etc! Also will give me plenty of time to get bloods run which i never have done! Cant wait to see what my natty test is!

Nothing wrong with that bro, I respect that 100%. Hit me up if you need any cycle ideas or setup when that time does finally come

 

[Gutterpump]

In for this as well, Im 22 and going to be starting my 6 week cycle of osta going 15/15/15/20/20/20. Any reason to use clomid over nolva?

Clomid is better for restarting your HPTA from being shutdown. Nolva is better at protecting against gyno on cycle. This is more than opinion. There's a reason why clomid is prescribed for fertility and for people with low test, it's simply better.