Keeping gains post cycle - isn't this an easy fix?

[Comeuppance]

I see a lot of fuss about "keeping gains" post-cycle, and that makes me wonder if people aren't overlooking a really simple and well-established fix: HMB.

HMB is a leucine metabolite that prevents muscle wasting. I would imagine that taking that, especially coupled with Ostarine, would allow one to keep any and all gains, right? They both prevent muscle wasting and through different mechanisms of action. Even just HMB, though, should do it, right?

 

[LeanEngineer]

I'm assuming you had a serm in there as well? Serm is a must during pct ecspecially if you ran DMZ. I'd also advice viron by blr and reduce xt by sns.

 

[zman86]

Ran Osta during pct huh

 

[Comeuppance]

(Accidental duplicate post.)

 

[Comeuppance]

I feel like we're getting off topic here. I'm not trying to flesh out my PCT, but instead get some feedback on HMB preventing muscle loss post-cycle.

I've edited the OP to help focus the discussion a bit.

 

[yates84]

I feel like we're getting off topic here. I'm not trying to flesh out my PCT, but instead get some feedback on HMB preventing muscle loss post-cycle.

I've edited the OP to help focus the discussion a bit.

What happens when you drop the osta and the hmb? This whole pct thing isn't about more drugs, this is about eating at your new maintenance and keeping up training intensity. You can throw all the drugs in the world at your pct but you will be unsuccessful without proper diet and training

 

[mw1]

What happens when you drop the osta and the hmb? This whole pct thing isn't about more drugs, this is about eating at your new maintenance and keeping up training intensity. You can throw all the drugs in the world at your pct but you will be unsuccessful without proper diet and training

This^^^^ MANY people change their diet and workouts after a cycle which always leads to the same thing.....gains being lost

 

[Comeuppance]

Edit: Might as well address what has been brought up.
My diet, training, and supplements are unchanged except for the omission of DMZ. I was taking HMB before, during, and after, and plan to continue to do so. I am taking a SERM. I am running Osta at a low level to minimize suppression, and will be tapering off from that over the course of a couple weeks. That addresses everything that has been brought up thus far.

Please do not inquire further or make additional suggestions about my PCT. I am not looking for that at this time. I will not entertain any further questions or respond to any statements or suggestions about it, because that is not the topic at hand and I don't want to further derail the thread.

Please, share any insight you have into the effectiveness of HMB post-cycle or in general.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

In theory, something like Mtech's Clearmuscle would help. That and phosphatidic acid could be very good off-cycle natty supps.

 

[yates84]

Edit: Might as well address what has been brought up.
My diet, training, and supplements are unchanged except for the omission of DMZ. I was taking HMB before, during, and after, and plan to continue to do so. I am taking a SERM. That addresses everything that has been brought up thus far. Please do not inquire further or make additional suggestions about my PCT. I am not looking for that at this time.

Again, this is NOT about my PCT. I will not entertain any further questions or respond to any statements or suggestions about it, because that is not the topic at hand and I don't want to further derail the thread.

Try it out then and tell us how it works. Make sure you eat and train like sh1t to put it to the full test

 

[Comeuppance]

Try it out then and tell us how it works. Make sure you eat and train like sh1t to put it to the full test

Well, I'm already doing it without any issues thus far, about two weeks in.

I'm not going to try to sabotage myself, though. That would be silly.

 

[M.I.D]

Running things like ARA, ABE, PA and EPIC(although it doesnt do anything for me) during or after PCT will help keep and add to gains

 

[demonfox]

I have done a review research on hmb in undergrad. It's very potent at decreasing muscle wasting especially at caloric deficit. This is even given to cancer patients and older people to help prevent muscle wasting. It's mechanism isn't properly known but they suggest that it provides cholesterol to help keep the membrane intact so it doesn't get degraded. Either way, I think it should be a great addition to pct. I know I'm going to use it for my pct. also make sure to get 3g a day. Not more or less.

 

[Comeuppance]

I have done a review research on hmb in undergrad. It's very potent at decreasing muscle wasting especially at caloric deficit. This is even given to cancer patients and older people to help prevent muscle wasting. It's mechanism isn't properly known but they suggest that it provides cholesterol to help keep the membrane intact so it doesn't get degraded. Either way, I think it should be a great addition to pct. I know I'm going to use it for my pct. also make sure to get 3g a day. Not more or less.

For sure. I'm really surprised it's not a universally-used supplement, honestly - even if you're not running a deficit, it would prevent catabolism to a large degree between meals. Staying anabolic 24/7 - even if HMB doesn't do much for protein synthesis - seems like a worthwhile goal that is easily met with HMB.

In theory, something like Mtech's Clearmuscle would help. That and phosphatidic acid could be very good off-cycle natty supps.

Hah, I actually have been taking that combo for a little over a year now. It allowed me to put on a little bit of mass while staying cut, just making natty gains.

I bought a big ol' 1kg bag of the calcium-bound HMB from blackburn distributions. Given that 2/3 of the doses I take throughout the day are at home (morning and night), I can shotgun a teaspoon of the powder at a fraction the cost of the pills. I have Clear Muscle as well that I take pre-workout because the free-acid version supposedly begins to work in less than an hour, whereas the calcium bound takes a bit longer.

For some reason, most of the HMB production seems to be overseas. I get the powder from England (Blackburn Dist.) and the tablets from Poland (Activlab's HMB6).

I also take pretty much all of my powder and capsule supps with liquid soy lecithin, which has Phosphatidic Acid. I had bought the Fuel:1 brand PA in the past, and I see that Muscletech rolled out their own PA (I think they owned Fuel 1 which has been discontinued, so it's really just a re-label) and Cutler King has gone down to $30/bottle. I might add the caps on top of the liquid form just for the sake of potency...

Check out Fearn Lecithin Granules - they list how much PA they have in it, and it's really quite a bit.

 

[demonfox]

For sure. I'm really surprised it's not a universally-used supplement, honestly - even if you're not running a deficit, it would prevent catabolism to a large degree between meals. Staying anabolic 24/7 - even if HMB doesn't do much for protein synthesis - seems like a worthwhile goal that is easily met with HMB.



Hah, I actually have been taking that combo for a little over a year now. It allowed me to put on a little bit of mass while staying cut, just making natty gains.

I bought a big ol' 1kg bag of the calcium-bound HMB from blackburn distributions. Given that 2/3 of the doses I take throughout the day are at home (morning and night), I can shotgun a teaspoon of the powder at a fraction the cost of the pills. I have Clear Muscle as well that I take pre-workout because the free-acid version supposedly begins to work in less than an hour, whereas the calcium bound takes a bit longer.

For some reason, most of the HMB production seems to be overseas. I get the powder from England (Blackburn Dist.) and the tablets from Poland (Activlab's HMB6).

I also take pretty much all of my powder and capsule supps with liquid soy lecithin, which has Phosphatidic Acid. I had bought the Fuel:1 brand PA in the past, and I see that Muscletech rolled out their own PA (I think they owned Fuel 1 which has been discontinued, so it's really just a re-label) and Cutler King has gone down to $30/bottle. I might add the caps on top of the liquid form just for the sake of potency...

Check out Fearn Lecithin Granules - they list how much PA they have in it, and it's really quite a bit.

Where do you get the powdered form from? I got caps that ON sells

 

[jbryand101b]

I keep all gain from every cycle. I started out as just 50lbs....honest....

 

[Comeuppance]

Where do you get the powdered form from? I got caps that ON sells

Blackburn distributions. They have a website, but their eBay store has better prices if you do the math and compare the two. Just search for "bulk HMB" on eBay and you'll find a few options.

 

[jbryand101b]

Pms black liver post cycle at 1/2 the recommended dosage for keeping gains post cycle

 

[Matthew1237]

Tbh I've run 2 cycles thus far and have never had issues keeping gains. It's a myth to me thus far.

 

[rascal14]

I heard running Tren at 750mg year round is good for keeping gains from your cycle.

 

[Dma378]

I heard running Tren at 750mg year round is good for keeping gains from your cycle.

Freaking killed me man. Can't rep you again, but you get it!!

 

[mase1]

You can keep your gains you just need to realize 5 ish pounds should fall right off as muscle glycogen stores are going drop off cycle. So if you put 10lbs during cycle and you realize only maybe 5 is true then yes you can keep your gains. But when people come on here and run ex. Dmz and say I did not lose a lb. In pct,well you dropped your glycogen and most likely added fat do to cortisol and increased calories.

 

[Dma378]

After reading this thread, I started doing a little research on HMB. Will be adding a Calcium HMB product to my upcoming PCT.

 

[demonfox]

After reading this thread, I started doing a little research on HMB. Will be adding a Calcium HMB product to my upcoming PCT.

Yup. It's really a promising supplement and there's a lot of research behind it.

 

[thu_hobbit]

Ill be adding hmb into my pcts as well. Looks great and its not too pricey for the bulk product

 

[Comeuppance]

It's great regardless of whether you're in PCT or not - take it at night to avoid catabolism, take it during the day to avoid between-meal catabolism, and buying it in bulk puts it at pennies a day.

1kg - 2.2lbs - runs about 60 bucks. That's 333.33 3g servings, or 11 months. That's roughly $5 a month to avoid nighttime and daytime muscle wasting. Way cheaper than caps or tabs, which often run $30 for 30 servings. That would be $330 dollars for the same timeframe.

 

[thu_hobbit]

Yea im sold on that one haha

 

[rascal14]

It's great regardless of whether you're in PCT or not - take it at night to avoid catabolism, take it during the day to avoid between-meal catabolism, and buying it in bulk puts it at pennies a day.

1kg - 2.2lbs - runs about 60 bucks. That's 333.33 3g servings, or 11 months. That's roughly $5 a month to avoid nighttime and daytime muscle wasting. Way cheaper than caps or tabs, which often run $30 for 30 servings. That would be $330 dollars for the same timeframe.

How's the taste?

 

[Comeuppance]

How's the taste?

Chalky and awful, like calcium is. I just gun down a teaspoon of it with some orange juice.

 

[rascal14]

Chalky and awful, like calcium is. I just gun down a teaspoon of it with some orange juice.

As I expected.. Lol

 

[datsthat]

Blackburn distributions. They have a website, but their eBay store has better prices if you do the math and compare the two. Just search for "bulk HMB" on eBay and you'll find a few options.

I searched ebay and found a seller name roxy*media* that has some bulk HMB for pretty cheap Is this the seller your are referring to?

 

[Comeuppance]

I searched ebay and found a seller name roxy*media* that has some bulk HMB for pretty cheap Is this the seller your are referring to?

They're a bit pricier, but more local. I use blackburndistributions. They're UK-based, so the shipping takes longer, but the product is good and still cheaper than Roxy last I checked.

It took about a week for it to arrive after my shipment notification. The tabs that I get (Activlab brand "HMB6", which has b6 for absorption) are from Poland and take even longer. Still, much cheaper than the MetRX or ON brands.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Whats the data on dose for the calcium form? The free acid form, which has better gram-for-gram absorption/bioavailability/etc, is dosed at 3gm /d. I havent looked into the specifics myself but a number of people claim the ca form needs to be at least twice the dose of the fa.

 

[JeremyNG25]

This^^^^ MANY people change their diet and workouts after a cycle which always leads to the same thing.....gains being lost

I don't understand why changing your training routine in PCT would make you lose gains. how long do you have to stick with the same routine into PCT before changing it up? This is the first I've heard of this. I mean some programs are designed for people ON cycle. Wouldn't it be counter productive to use a program with so much volume in PCT? I would think that as long as you're giving it your all you would keep gains. Also is it even possible to sustain that level of intensity in PCT?

 

[Comeuppance]

Whats the data on dose for the calcium form? The free acid form, which has better gram-for-gram absorption/bioavailability/etc, is dosed at 3gm /d. I havent looked into the specifics myself but a number of people claim the ca form needs to be at least twice the dose of the fa.

The calcium bound version, according to the third-party testing certificate on blackburn distributions main site, is 85% HMB. So, 3g would be roughly 1.15x3g or 3.45g to get 3g of HMB.

 

[max d]

Just my two cents but unless you stay on year round blasting and cruising you will lose your gains eventually from a strong anabolic cycle. Even with diet at new maint level.Without maintaining supraphysiological levels of T your body will revert back to homeostasis. Taking Ost will help prolong the gains since it increases test, so what your taking in PCT does matter... eventually once you stop putting in exogenous supps to keep your T up over time you will revert back. best of luck

 

[datsthat]

Just my two cents but unless you stay on year round blasting and cruising you will lose your gains eventually from a strong anabolic cycle. Even with diet at new maint level.Without maintaining supraphysiological levels of T your body will revert back to homeostasis. Taking Ost will help prolong the gains since it increases test, so what your taking in PCT does matter... eventually once you stop putting in exogenous supps to keep your T up over time you will revert back. best of luck

Is this a correct statement: Once done one would revert to ones maximum natural state.

 

[thu_hobbit]

Just my two cents but unless you stay on year round blasting and cruising you will lose your gains eventually from a strong anabolic cycle. Even with diet at new maint level.Without maintaining supraphysiological levels of T your body will revert back to homeostasis. Taking Ost will help prolong the gains since it increases test, so what your taking in PCT does matter... eventually once you stop putting in exogenous supps to keep your T up over time you will revert back. best of luck

Not to sound rude but by Ost...if youre talking about ostarine it doesnt increase youre t, it actually suppresses it. Even at 3mg per day its suppressive

 

[mase1]

Other than the osta pretty accurate. Remember if juice gets you to your natural limit you will maintain. But once you go beyond that anabolics are usually needed to maintain that level.

 

[max d]

Not to sound rude but by Ost...if youre talking about ostarine it doesnt increase youre t, it actually suppresses it. Even at 3mg per day its suppressive

My bad dont know much about ost. I figured since it worked through your androgen receptors, and increases estrogen, it increased test levels... which will suppress your natural test. learned something new. Thanks

Either way, from my expereince with numerous PH cycles the only way to keep your gains in the long run is to stay on cycle.

 

[demonfox]

Just my two cents but unless you stay on year round blasting and cruising you will lose your gains eventually from a strong anabolic cycle. Even with diet at new maint level.Without maintaining supraphysiological levels of T your body will revert back to homeostasis. Taking Ost will help prolong the gains since it increases test, so what your taking in PCT does matter... eventually once you stop putting in exogenous supps to keep your T up over time you will revert back. best of luck

Just to make sure I get your point, you will lose gains if you're already above your natural limit?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

They're a bit pricier, but more local. I use blackburndistributions. They're UK-based, so the shipping takes longer, but the product is good and still cheaper than Roxy last I checked.

It took about a week for it to arrive after my shipment notification. The tabs that I get (Activlab brand "HMB6", which has b6 for absorption) are from Poland and take even longer. Still, much cheaper than the MetRX or ON brands.

Thanks for the tip. I ordered from Blackburn and it was painless. It's enroute to the USA now. HMB-CA from China, but if it's legit, it's legit - not everything in China is poison. At 1gx3 per day, that damn Kilo will last almost a year! LOL! For ~$50 shipped. Just looked at all the data on Suppversity for "regular" HMB - looks good. Probably will be a staple.

 

[max d]

Just to make sure I get your point, you will lose gains if you're already above your natural limit?

Eventually.

 

[Volvo140G]

sub for Info, good read...

 

[Dma378]

Added C-HMB to my current pct and it is by far the best I've ever run as far as maintaining gains and strength.

I have lost a bit of weight, mostly water and glycogen as I look bigger at 201 than I did at 213.

Pretty sold on this stuff and plan to also continually use it as a staple.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

How much you dosing man? What comeuppance suggested?

 

[Dma378]

How much you dosing man? What comeuppance suggested?

3 grams per day

Product I'm using is 1mg caps x 3

 

[rascal14]

3 grams per day

Product I'm using is 1mg caps x 3

You might have said this else where, but why did you choose the calcium salt instead of the free acid form?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

According to the research, plain old HMB-Ca works too... and is an a$$load cheaper. It may not do the exact same stuff as the FA version (where you have to over-reach to see benefit), but just search Suppversity for "HMB". I received my Kilo from Blackburn in the UK - easy as pie and it arrived within a week ('ish). About $53 for a 333 day supply at 3g per day. No brainer.