First Cycle: Legal Pro-hormones 2015 or SARMS?

guitar

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I am in the process of planning my first cycle and I am in the research phase. I want to be as effective but safe as possible. It seems like most of the prohormones that are legal in 2015 are DHEA derivatives. Are these compounds effective and are they safe? It is very hard to find reviews of these products like 1-andro, 4-andro, etc...

Prohormones I have been researching include: hexadrone, Dymethazine, Methylstenbolone, Mentabolan, Methyl 1-AD, Cyanostane, 1-Androsterone, Super 1-DHEA, MAX LMG, Methyldiazirinol.

I am interested in compounds that are legal and safe. Which would you recommend. What type of cycle aids are needed. What type of PCT?

Another type of compound I've been researching are called SARMS. It seems like they are sold by supplement companies and research labs. What type of administration is prefered: liquid or capsule. What SARMS do you recommend? Ostarine MK-2866, LGD-4033, GW-501516, Andarine S4?

Other questions: Is is advisible to to get blood work before, during, and after cycle to check hematocrit and hormone levels?
I've read it is always smart to run a test base as part of a cycle, how does this apply to prohormones and SARMS?
Are AIs needed on cycle for prohormones and SARMS and are SERMS needed in PCT for SARMS and prohormones?
When using prohormones and SARMS is it necessary to donate blood so that hematocrit (RBCs) levels aren't too high?

I know I have a lot to learn before starting a cycle, hence why I am asking questions. I want to do this as safe as possible and would appreciate it if an experienced user could point me in the right direction. It seems like there is a lot of contradictory information out there on these topics, which can be confusing to a newbie.

Thank you in advance.


I would like to add that I am 6'0, 190 lbs, about 15 percent body fat, and have been lifting consistently for 4 years. I am well versed in dieting and training plans. I've experimented with creatine, BCAAs, fat burners, multivitamins, fish oil, preworkouts, etc. I am ready to take things to the next level.

I am concerned about maintaining endogenous testosterone levels and avoiding shutdown and actually keeping my gains. I want to do everything correctly and safely.
 

guitar

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Does seem like SARMS are the future. LGD 4033 orMK 677 (Ibutamoren) or RAD 140 seem like they would be the best in my situation.

Studies showing GW 501516 has caused tumors and the vision sides from S4 kind of scare me off from those two.


It was a good read. I look forward to learning as much as possible before my first cycle.

Perhaps LGD and Ibutamoren would make a good stack.
 
yates84

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Gw doesn't cause cancer, that myth has been debunked numerous times. S4 vision sides are definitely real and I would stay away. If you are trying to bulk lgd and mk677 would be a good combo. Olympus UK makes these 2 in a stack, mass gh, and is a great deal on the combo. Hit me up if you have any questions or need help setting up a cycle
 

guitar

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That sounds like a great idea. How would you set up the cycle (dosage of each compound, total length) and what type of cycle aids and PCT (compounds and length) would you recommend?
 
yates84

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That sounds like a great idea. How would you set up the cycle (dosage of each compound, total length) and what type of cycle aids and PCT (compounds and length) would you recommend.
Check out that link I dropped a few comments ago, it has full cycle and pct layouts. I will be more than happy to help you tweak a cycle, just post up your plan after you do a little reading
 

guitar

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I will definitely read more and post a tentative cycle per review.

Also on the LGD/Mk677 stack would it be advisible to get blood work before, during, and after the cycle?


Will this compounds raise hematocrit levels enough that donating blood would be advisable?

Would the LGD act as a "test base" in the cycle?

Also curious what you think about adding 1-andro and 4-andro to the cycle as a "test base"
 

guitar

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Located some of the information:


LGD example cycle:
Beginner
LGD 4/4/4/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 2/2/2/2/2/2
PCT:
Clomid 50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand

MK 677 example cycle:
Month 1 - 10mg once daily
Month 2 - 20mg once daily
Month 3 - 30mg once daily

I'll do more research but this is a good start.
 
yates84

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Located some of the information:


LGD example cycle:
Beginner
LGD 4/4/4/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 2/2/2/2/2/2
PCT:
Clomid 50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand

MK 677 example cycle:
Month 1 - 10mg once daily
Month 2 - 20mg once daily
Month 3 - 30mg once daily

I'll do more research but this is a good start.
Add in some dermacrine as a test base and you will be gtg. Lgd is known for lethargy, definitely isn't a test base. Dermacrine will help with this. Getting bloodwork is always advisable but donating blood won't be necessary. Just keep an eye on your bp. 1 andro is not a good test base, it is known for lethargy as well. You could use 4 andro in place of the dermacrine if you wish
 
Afi140

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At least you have a research phase. Most people buy something, start it, then have a research phase. It's sounds like your on the right track so continue to research until you feel comfortable and have all the necessary supplements before you start your cycle.

Yates has you covered on some good options. 1&4 andros or sarms are nice starting points.

Layout looks decent but I'm not sure why clomid is only dosed for 3 weeks?

Lastly, If you go with OL super pct right now you can get a free product from Olympus labs. It applies to any OL product. Just a heads up if You're picking anything up. See thread below.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=271735


http://search.strongsupplementshop.com/search?w=olympus labs
 
yates84

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At least you have a research phase. Most people buy something, start it, then have a research phase. It's sounds like your on the right track so continue to research until you feel comfortable and have all the necessary supplements before you start your cycle.

Yates has you covered on some good options.

Layout looks decent but I'm not sure why clomid is only dosed for 3 weeks?

Lastly, If you go with OL super pct right now you can get a free product from Olympus labs. It applies to any OL product. Just a heads up if You're picking anything up. See thread below.
3 weeks of clomid is all that's needed for a short sarm cycle imo. Suppression occurs on testosterone levels but LH and fsh aren't heavily effected by sarms. Because of this, recovery from sarms is usually quick and easy and I see no need to run a serm any longer than necessary.
 

guitar

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I will definitely pick up some 4-andro or dermacrine as a test base to the cycle.

Was wondering if OL Eliminate can be replaced by DIM and if OL Super PCT could be replaced by Test booster/estrogen blocker?

I will look into the UK Olympus Mass GH as the source of LDG and MK 677. It looks like LDG is ran for 6 wks, PCT for 3 wks, and the MK 677 can be run for 3 months.

I'll do more research but i'd like to be ready to run this cycle this Fall or Winter.

Also, would be recommend an addition supplement to control blood pressure (for example milk thistle)
 
yates84

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I will definitely pick up some 4-andro or dermacrine as a test base to the cycle.

Was wondering if OL Eliminate can be replaced by DIM and if OL Super PCT could be replaced by Test booster/estrogen blocker?

I will look into the UK Olympus Mass GH as the source of LDG and MK 677. It looks like LDG is ran for 6 wks, PCT for 3 wks, and the MK 677 can be run for 3 months.

I'll do more research but i'd like to be ready to run this cycle this Fall or Winter.

Also, would be recommend an addition supplement to control blood pressure (for example milk thistle)
You could replace super pct with those but super pct is a test booster, estrogen blocker, and has prolactin control and blood pressure support. It is truly an all in one pct product
 
Joedoubledose

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Everything Yates said was spot on , LGD or RAD would be a great choice . Glad you're also doing you're research first , as its shows you plan to cycle responsibly
 
Driven2lift

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Looks like you're getting a lot of good help in here on this set up

I would have suggested dmz from the start from a results standpoint but this will be a "milder" run and a fun time, Team OL has your back ;)
 
yates84

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Looks like you're getting a lot of good help in here on this set up

I would have suggested dmz from the start from a results standpoint but this will be a "milder" run and a fun time, Team OL has your back ;)
Dmz would definitely produce some results if diet and training are on point, it would make a great second cycle. This will be a good first time run to get acclimated to the world of PEDs.
 
Driven2lift

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Dmz would definitely produce some results if diet and training are on point, it would make a great second cycle. This will be a good first time run to get acclimated to the world of PEDs.
Agree,
Its good to see SARMS settled in and good products rolling out for people to get behind and test the waters now
 

guitar

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I did some research on DMZ. I assume you're talking about DMZ 4.0? It seems like it has a lot of DHEA prohormones. How would you construct a cycle around DMZ. Would AIs, SERMS, cycle assists, liver support be necessary?

I'm trying to learn the most I can before starting a cycle this Fall/Winter and would love to have multiple options. What can of results can I expect to get from DMZ realistically if my diet and training is efficient.
 

guitar

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Everything Yates said was spot on , LGD or RAD would be a great choice . Glad you're also doing you're research first , as its shows you plan to cycle responsibly
Wondering what results I could expect realistically from LGD/MK667 Cycle or a RAD cycle?

If running a RAD cycle would I still use 4-andro or dermacrine as a *test base?

Could MK667 be stacked with RAD?

When running RAD, MK667, or LGD is suppressive of HPTA a major concern? I've read that people use human gonadotropin releasing hormone to keep their HPTA activated while on cycle. Is anything like this necessary when cycling with SARMS or DHEA based prohormones (or any other legal prohormones in 2015).

For Clomid would a liquid suspension from a research lab be adequate? I've read that clomid taken with novadex has synergistic effects and both are optimal for recovery of HPTA. Is this the case for SARMS or 2015 prohormones?

Lastly, wondering if there are any natural supplements that can be run with a cycle to maximize gains?

Sorry for the questions overload, but I want to be an expert on SARMS and prohormones before I start cycling.
 

guitar

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Just wanted to point out that when researching prohormones most of the information on the internet pertains to prohomones available before the 2014 ban. I would love to be enlightened as to how effective new ones are and what to realistically expect for gains.
 

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