Gyno from Dermacrine/Alpha Mass HELP!

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
I was taking Dermacrine (DHEA) and Alpha Mass (1DHEA) for just over a week and my pecs started feeling weird. I thought I was paranoid but now I'm feeling lumpyness in my pecs and it hurts a tad when I push on them. It's gyno. It doesn't seem to be as bad as some people's aggressive gyno from harsh compounds but I did have pubertal gyno for a short period (few weeks) of time as a kid. I thought it went away but I likely stimulated it again. I know it never completey 'goes away' yadda yadda. I'm pretty sure it was the Dermacrine not the Alpha Mass because I took the Dermacrine a few months back and it made my nipples itchy.

I have Nolva and Letro. Should I use the Nolva first to see if it works or do I jump straight to Letro and taper down then onto low dose Nolva? Help please. I thought Dermacrine was side effect free etc my Hdrol cycle never gave me ANY sides like this especially not after 9-10 days! I have been off both compounds for 3 days or so and have been taking Reboot while I was waiting on my Nolva/Letro. Don't tell me surgery because its still early on. Everyone who harps on the surgery thing is likely pissed that they're stuck with gyno so they love delivering bad news! Anyways HELP?!
 
jwinak82

jwinak82

Member
Awards
0
Liquid Prami, I had the same problem. I started Dermacrine and around a week into it I had some very mild gyno. I thought it might be something else but reading your situation maybe not. look up how to take the prami it has some sides but it worked for me.
 
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
if it's gyno: 3-5 days of nolva at 10mg ED and I bet the pain will go away.

I would consider throwing in some epiandrosterone for the remainder of your run and tapering back a little on the dermacrine.
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
Dam I'm about to start my 1-Andro and Dermacrine cycle for 7 weeks at 500 mg. this scares me a bit now. Might use epiandro for test base. Would taking arimistane on cycle work? Btw how many pumps were you doing bro?
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Thanks for the advice guys. I dropped the cycle completely. Every time I got stoned I get all paranoid of the gyno and think it's much worse than it is but its still enough to be of concern. No lecture on pot pls - it helps my appetite :). I'll start on the Nolva. Should I invest in the Prami or wait and see? Also what about reloxifene? I e been reading that its possibly the best gyno reversal. Any experience with Alpha Hard? To my understanding a DHT compound like that will also help gyno symptoms?

Still shocked that something borderline natty like Dermacrine would stimulate gyno. Then again ive read that marijuana can also cause it?!

Too bad I planned on running some Pmag soon but now I'm far too sketched out. I know managing gyno is the norm for a lot of guys on here but its all I can think about and I'm doing my best not to poke and prod at it!!
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Bro I was taking 4 pumps ED 2 on my shoulders, 1 on upper chest, and 1 to my balls. Be aware and have everything on hand. For 1Dhea I was only taking about 225mg ED. Very mild cycle. Still in disbelief!
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
Well thanks for the heads up. Mate of mine ran epistane and got bad rebound gyno from it. Needed surgery asap which set him back $6000. Scary stuff and not trying to scare you either man but its definitely made me think twice now about Dermacrine. I might start with 3 pumps 2nd week in cycle when there's already suppression and watch very closely.
 
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
epiandrosterone should reduce risks of gyno. I would have lowered the dermacrine down to 2 or 3 pumps and added some epiandro...

if it is a gyno flair up and not a knee jerk to some puffy nips, it would have likely subsided after a few days of Nolva or adjusting your cycle accordingly...loweing the dermacrine and adding in epiandro and/or an AI
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
Adding an AI to epi and 1-Andro cycle would kill joints wouldn't it. Or would Dermacrine balance it out so to speak?
 
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Adding an AI to epi and 1-Andro cycle would kill joints wouldn't it. Or would Dermacrine balance it out so to speak?
what's the point of using dermacrine?
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
Been told it good cause it keeps test in the cycle for better gains and less lethargy. Epiandro does little if anything for muscle gains but still good test base.
 
Last edited:
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
dermacrine is a good test base because the two major components of the product offer a more normalized conversion of your sex hormones...pregnenolone is the root of your sex hormone tree and should convert into ALL your sex hormones (estrogens, progesterines, androgens, etc) like your body would normally do. DHEA conversions lean more towards the androgen side of things.

this allows you to have relatively balanced estrogens, pregestines and androgens, despite the other hormones you're running...this eliminates a lot of the sides associated with designer steroids.

for gyno, see point 1 below.

here, I think this is an old but good read...

16 Ways to Fight Gynecomastia

By Eric M. Potratz

Eric M. Potratz has developed his education in the field of endocrinology and performance enhancement through years of research, counseling, and real world experience. Over the past five years he has been a private consultant for hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders alike, and is the founder & president of Primordial Performance.[/CENTER]




Gynecomastia = Gyno


Most people think the only way to combat gyno is to use Nolvadex or Clomid. Considering the undesirable side-effects of these drugs, I generally don’t prefer these as the first line of defense. I have expressed my concerns about SERM’s in my article – Clomid & Nolvadex – The Dark Side.

In this article I summarize alternative methods for combating the occurrence of gyno. The advice given in this article is the result of over 10 years experience in counseling individuals with AAS induced gyno.

If you have gyno as a result of an endocrine disorder, I advise consulting your doctor before making changes to your prescribed medical regimen.


You Do Not Have Gyno!


During mammary tissue growth (the onset of gyno), you may notice the following symptoms -

* Puffy or swollen nipples
* Overly sensitive nipples
* Itchiness around the nipples

Editorial note: I promise -- that is the last time I will ever say nipples.

Now, just because you may have these symptoms does not mean you HAVE GYNO. It simply means that you HAVE GYNO SYMPTOMS. Remember, it is normal to have a small flat pea sized lump under the nipple. This is NOT gyno.

Now, if you allow these above symptoms to progress for several weeks then you may develop gyno. So if you are experiencing any of the above symptoms then you are smart to take action before it’s too late – But please stop emailing me saying you “have gyno” after 3 days on a cycle – this is physiologically impossible.

The good news is that even if you do have a slight case of gyno that you developed from a cycle, it’s probably 100% reversible. Read on…

Nipples.


Gyno Hysteria


No level of gyno is “permanent”. Any level of gyno can be reversed by dietary, supplemental and/or hormonal intervention. Mammary tissue (gyno) can be catabolized like any other tissue in the body. It’s just a matter of creating the right physiological environment within your body. Therefore, as far as I’m concerned, all gyno is temporary or semi-permanent at worse.

Here are the basic levels of gyno -

Level 1 – A dime sized glandular lump – which can emerge as soon as 2-3 weeks after “gyno symptoms” appear. This type of gyno can transform into a more serious level 2 gyno if left untreated for more than 4-6 weeks. In most cases, this initial level 1 gyno disappears once the hormonal environment improves, which is generally 2-3 weeks after the inflicting steroids clear the system.

Level 2 – A quarter sized glandular lump. This type of gyno does not completely disappear on its own, but may gradually shrink to “Level 1” size after discontinuing the inflicting steroids. Completely reversing level 2 gyno requires aggressive dietary and supplemental intervention in conjunction with prescription grade drugs.

Generally, the levels of gyno can be referred to in the following way –

level 1 = temporary

level 2 = semi-permanent

Be warned, if gyno is allowed to grow large enough, the cost of surgery may be more cost efficient than trying to battle the gyno through drug and lifestyle changes – which could otherwise take months or years of intervention.

Following the 16 points below will help you prevent and reverse level 1 & 2 gyno -


The 16 Points


Consider all the following points. Remember, there are many factors that can contribute to gyno and performing just a handful of the points below may be the key to avoiding gyno all together.

1. Your naturally occurring 5a-reduced metabolites are your friends in preventing and reversing gyno. 5a-reduced metabolites include androsterone, androstanedione, androstanediol and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) as the most powerful 5a-reduced hormone. These hormones help prevent gyno by lowering estrogen and blocking the effect of estrogen at the hormone receptor. (1-8) Unless you have serious androgen related hair loss you want to keep your 5a-reduced metabolites relatively high to avoid gyno.

Methods for increasing 5a-reduced metabolites (DHT) are listed in preferred order –

* Topical testosterone applied to the scrotum will rapidly increase DHT levels with minimal estrogen conversion. (for more information on topical steroids, read this article)

* Use a DHT pro-hormone such as androsterone, found in AndroHard. This will raise DHT with zero risk of estrogen conversion.

* Injectable testosterone along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.

* High dose oral 4-DHEA or DHEA along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.


2. If you are concerned about gyno, avoid finesteride at all costs. It lowers all 5a-reduced metabolites to undesirable levels and has an extremely long half-life which continues to suppress DHT levels long after discontinuing the drug. (9) Progesterone would be a better anti-DHT alternative if you are concerned with hair loss. Plus, progesterone can clear the system within 24hrs making a mistake in dosing much less risky.

3. Almost all sources of gyno can be linked back to having insufficient levels of 5a-reduced metabolites in the body. In theory, any amount of estrogen/progesterone can be blocked by sufficient DHT. (10-14) Also, high DHT and enlargement of the prostate is a myth, however high estrogen and high DHT can lead to an inflamed prostate, so you want to at least make an effort to keep estrogen in a normal range. (14)

4. Trenbolone , TREN , Nandrolone can cause gyno because they lack a potent 5a-reduced metabolite (dihydronandrolone is weaker than dihydrotestosterone). (15) If you are worried about gyno from progestational steroids you should consider boosting your 5a-reduced metabolites during the cycle (mentioned above). This can avoid most if not all of the gyno problems associated with progestational hormones. I should mention here that aromatase inhibitors alone (AI’s) will not help prevent gyno from progestational compounds. It is the antagonistic action of 5a-reduced hormones that is required.

5. Nothing is going to antagonize estrogen at the estrogen receptor (ER) better than actual DHT. While DHT derivatives or analogs such as Anavar , Winstrol , Masteron , Epistane, Superdrone, ect may be 5a-reduced, they cannot convert to actual DHT and thus cannot directly inhibit gyno at the receptor level (since they lack the ultra-high binding affinity for the AR that true DHT possesses). (16)

6. Natural anti-estrogens (resveratrol, chrysin, I3C, DIM, ect) are great for PCT and can stimulate the HPTA and manage healthy estrogen metabolism, but they are not strong enough to prevent aromatization from high doses of aromatizing steroids. Don’t rely on these to prevent gyno during a cycle.

7. Reducing prolactin will reduce the overall stimulation on mammary growth. Suppressing prolactin is useful as a temporary method to help slow or stop gyno growth. However, continuing anti-prolactin treatment is not recommended to be continued beyond 8 weeks. Methods of suppressing prolactin include –

* Vitex at 460mg/day
* Vitamin B6 at 200-400mg/day
* Mucuna Pruriens (15%-20% L-Dopa) 4-6g/day
* Increasing DHT may also lower prolactin release (17)


8. Don’t fiddle with your nipples. This increases prolactin release which can make gyno worse.

9. IGF-1, GH, insulin and prolactin are all potent growth factors in gyno growth. Limiting these hormones will reduce the likelihood of experiencing gyno symptoms. “Bulking” (aka., eating-a-****load-of-everything) will increase most of the growth factors listed above. Cutting calories (especially carbohydrates) will suppress insulin and IGF-1 therefore reducing the overall stimulatory effect on mammary growth. Ketogenic diet = less risk of gyno.

10. Body fat (adipose tissue) is the main site for androgens to convert to estrogens. Therefore, being overweight or having high body fat increases your gyno risk. This is another good reason to go on a cutting cycle if you are gyno prone. Reducing body fat will lower your rate of estrogen conversion from aromatizing steroids. (18)

11. Caffeine consumption can inhibit clearance of estrogen from the liver by competing for the P-450 oxidase system. Avoid caffeine if you are concerned about high estrogen levels.

12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)

13. Increasing fiber intake (both soluble and insoluble) can enhance clearance of estrogens from the intestines. Research shows that increasing fiber intake in humans can reduce estrogen levels by up to 22%. (19)

14. Reducing estrogen below the normal range (such as over dosing arimidex , letrozol, aromasin or formestane) can eventually reduce SHBG levels, thus allowing more estrogen to freely circulate (by offsetting it from SHBG). Higher levels of freely circulating estrogen can amplify breast tissue growth (20). SHBG also appears to have anti-estrogenic effects at the cell receptor level. (21, 22) Avoiding over suppression of SHBG will reduce your gyno risk.

15. Don’t be afraid to lower the dose mid cycle. People have a tendency to panic at the first sign of gyno and drop everything. Generally, just lowering the dose of the afflicting steroid can offer gyno relief within 4-5 days.

16. Save SERM’s as your last resort against gyno. You do not need a SERM (tormifene, clomid or nolva) to avoid gyno from a properly planned cycle. If you are still having gyno problems after following the above points, consider the fact that you have a poorly planned cycle and you need to revaluate the compounds you have chosen.



References –

1. Dihydrotestosterone may inhibit hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal activity by acting through estrogen receptor in the male mouse.
Lund TD, et al.
Neurosci Lett. 2004 Jul 15;365(1):43-7.

2. Androgen-induced inhibition of proliferation in human breast cancer MCF7 cells transfected with androgen receptor.
Szelei J, et al.
Tufts University School of Medicine, Department of Anatomy and Cellular Biology, Boston, Massachusetts 02111, USA.

3. The non-aromatizable androgen, dihydrotestosterone, induces antiestrogenic responses in the rainbow trout.
Shilling AD, et al.
Agricultural and Life Sciences Building, room 1007, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331, USA.

4. The androgen 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and its metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3beta, 17beta-diol inhibit the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal response to stress by acting through estrogen receptor beta-expressing neurons in the hypothalamus.
Lund TD, et al.
J Neurosci. 2006 Feb 1;26(5):1448-56.

5. Steroid modulation of aromatase activity in human cultured breast carcinoma cells.
Perel E, et al.
J Steroid Biochem. 1988 Apr;29(4):393-9.

6. Aromatase activity in the breast and other peripheral tissues and its therapeutic regulation.
Killinger DW, et al.
Steroids. 1987 Oct-Dec;50(4-6):523-36. Review.

7. The intracellular control of aromatase activity by 5 alpha-reduced androgens in human breast carcinoma cells in culture.
Perel E, et al
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Mar;58(3):467-72.

8. FSH-induced aromatase activity in porcine granulosa cells: non-competitive inhibition by non-aromatizable androgens.
Chan WK, et al
J Endocrinol. 1986 Mar;108(3):335-41.

9. The effect of 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors on erectile function.
Canguven O, Burnett AL.
J Androl. 2008 Sep-Oct;29(5):514-23.

10. Comparative Pharmacokinetics of Three Doses of Percutaneous Dihydrotestosterone Gel in Healthy Elderly Men – A Clinical Research Center Study*
C. Wang et al.
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism Vol. 83, No. 8 (1998)

11. Successful percutaneous dihydrotestosterone treatment of gynecomastia occurring during highly active antiretroviral therapy: four cases and a review of the literature.
Benveniste O et al.
Clin Infect Dis. 2001 Sep 15;33(6):891-3.

12. Gynecomastia: effect of prolonged treatment with dihydrotestosterone by the percutaneous route.
Kuhn J et al.
Presse Med 12;21-25. (1983)

13. Percutaneous dihydrotestosterone (DHT) treatment. In: Nieschlag E, Behre HM, eds. Testosterone: action, deficiency substitution.
Schaison G, Nahoul K, Couzinet B.
Berlin: Springer Verlag; 155–164. (1990)

14. Transdermal dihydrotestosterone and treatment of ‘andropause ’.
de Lignieres B.
Ann Med 1993;25: 235–41.

15. Metabolism and receptor binding of nandrolone and testosterone under invitro and invivo conditions.
Bergink et al.
Acta Endocrinol Suppl (Copenh). 271:31-7, 1985

16. Pharmacology of Reproduction
David E, et al.
Principles of Pharmacology (second edition) p. 510 (2008)

17. Antagonism of estrogen-induced prolactin release by dihydrotestosterone.
Brann DW, et al.
Biol Reprod. 1989 Jun;40(6):1201-7.

18. Aromatase – a brief overview
Simpson ER, et al
Annu Rev Physiol. 64:93-127, 2002

19. Dietary fiber intake and endogenous serum hormone levels in naturally postmenopausal Mexican American women: the Multiethnic Cohort Study.
Monroe KR et al.
Nutr Cancer. 2007;58(2):127-35.

20. Williams Textbook of Endocrinology.
Wilson, et al.
9th ED. Philadelphia: Saunders, 1997

21. Sex steroid binding protein receptor (SBP-R) is related to a reduced proliferation rate in human breast cancer.
Catalano MG, et al.
Breast Cancer Res Treat. 42(3):227-34, 1997

22. Biological relevance of the interaction between sex steroid binding protein and its specific receptor of MCF-7 cells under SBP and estradiol treatment.
Fissore F, et al.
Steroids, 59(11):661-7, 1994

23. Progestin-dependent effect of forskolin on human endometrial aromatase activity.
Tseng L, Malbon CC, Lane B, Kaplan C, Mazella J, Dahler H, Tseng A.
Hum Reprod. 1987 Jul;2(5):371-7.

24. Forskolin up-regulates aromatase (CYP19) activity and gene transcripts in the human adrenocortical carcinoma cell line H295R.
Watanabe M, Nakajin S.
J Endocrinol. 2004 Jan;180(1):125-33
 
Volvo140G

Volvo140G

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
lol @ getting stoned then fearing the "gyno" was creeping back

Same thing kept happening to me in pct of a halo cycle which I dosed exem daily, starting week 2 of cycle cause my nips lit the F up. I'd get stoned and swear they were lighting up again - every time after I started smoking.
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
dermacrine is a good test base because the two major components of the product offer a more normalized conversion of your sex hormones...pregnenolone is the root of your sex hormone tree and should convert into ALL your sex hormones (estrogens, progesterines, androgens, etc) like your body would normally do. DHEA conversions lean more towards the androgen side of things.

this allows you to have relatively balanced estrogens, pregestines and androgens, despite the other hormones you're running...this eliminates a lot of the sides associated with designer steroids.

for gyno, see point 1 below.

here, I think this is an old but good read...
Great read! Everyone should read this.
 
highlander31

highlander31

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
subbed for that info.
 
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Great read! Everyone should read this.
Yeah, a lot of guys really had a lot of respect for Eric and his research...and products. not enough people understand the benefits if epiendrosterone and androsterone.

I heard there is a new androsterone product coming from Gaspari: Nova-X...underdosed and seems strange to offer a DHT Inhibiting Complex in a product that contains a prohormone to DHT???

On another forum there's talk of a new transdermal androsterone product coming out in the near future (alpha andro).

Also, there are some good epiandro options out right now.
 

SweetLou321

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Don't forget that study that showed a huge increase in estrogen from topical dhea. Like 300% if I remember right on 50mg a day. I don't have it saved.
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Yea I'm pretty prone to estrogen flare ups- I've ran a full bottle of dermacrine & 2 days of rs transaderm and my nipples felt weird but I was told that those products had estrogen sides covered... Anyway it cause my nips to flare up a bit..
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Little update on this. I don't think I'll ever run Dermacrine again!! My gyno got fairly aggressive and my pecs very lumpy, tender, prickly, itchy, you name it! Growing each day even 8-9 days after stopping the cycle.

I am on my 6th day of liquid Nolva 40mg ED right now and the tenderness and sensitivity has pretty much gone. I still have small lumps under my nipples maybe the size of a half of pea, not really anything that concerns me though. I'm going to taper down the Nolva for the next 2 wks and should be good to go. Glad I didn't immediately jump onto Letro.

I want to do a cycle of Pmag soon - any suggestions on how to keep gyno issues at bay while running Pmag?

And for all the people saying Nolva doesn't do anything for gyno, **** you!!!
 

SweetLou321

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Little update on this. I don't think I'll ever run Dermacrine again!! My gyno got fairly aggressive and my pecs very lumpy, tender, prickly, itchy, you name it! Growing each day even 8-9 days after stopping the cycle.

I am on my 6th day of liquid Nolva 40mg ED right now and the tenderness and sensitivity has pretty much gone. I still have small lumps under my nipples maybe the size of a half of pea, not really anything that concerns me though. I'm going to taper down the Nolva for the next 2 wks and should be good to go. Glad I didn't immediately jump onto Letro.

I want to do a cycle of Pmag soon - any suggestions on how to keep gyno issues at bay while running Pmag?

And for all the people saying Nolva doesn't do anything for gyno, **** you!!!
The estrogen sides from transdermal dhea lasted for months after the product was stopped in the study if I remember right. So if it starts to come back be aware of that.
 
highlander31

highlander31

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Little update on this. I don't think I'll ever run Dermacrine again!! My gyno got fairly aggressive and my pecs very lumpy, tender, prickly, itchy, you name it! Growing each day even 8-9 days after stopping the cycle.

I am on my 6th day of liquid Nolva 40mg ED right now and the tenderness and sensitivity has pretty much gone. I still have small lumps under my nipples maybe the size of a half of pea, not really anything that concerns me though. I'm going to taper down the Nolva for the next 2 wks and should be good to go. Glad I didn't immediately jump onto Letro.

I want to do a cycle of Pmag soon - any suggestions on how to keep gyno issues at bay while running Pmag?

And for all the people saying Nolva doesn't do anything for gyno, **** you!!!
Ive ran 2 cycles of Pmag. The first one, I didnt use anything other than Pmag, so no base or anything. Loved it and it was a great cycle, but about week 4 the lethargy hit hard. Get some 4-DHEA like Andro the Giant or the new IML super 4-Andro or something like that to run as a test base, or just pin Test at like 250mg/week. always keep an AI on hand just incase, but you should be good to go with just Pmag or an included Test base.
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
The estrogen sides from transdermal dhea lasted for months after the product was stopped in the study if I remember right. So if it starts to come back be aware of that.
Thanks I'll keep AI and SERMs on hand. Why isn't this study common knowledge? Seems like its foolish to use something as mild in results as Derma when it has such high estrogen sides.
 

SweetLou321

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Thanks I'll keep AI and SERMs on hand. Why isn't this study common knowledge? Seems like its foolish to use something as mild in results as Derma when it has such high estrogen sides.
Idk I found it on another board. Will look for it later and link here for people to read.
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
The estrogen sides from transdermal dhea lasted for months after the product was stopped in the study if I remember right. So if it starts to come back be aware of that.
Explains a lot, great to know! Thanks
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
So for people running Dermacrine, would an AI suffice for preventing the estrogen spike?
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
So for people running Dermacrine, would an AI suffice for preventing the estrogen spike?
Well it has an AI built in it so... I'm not sure.. It mainly a post cycle problem.
 
highlander31

highlander31

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
So for people running Dermacrine, would an AI suffice for preventing the estrogen spike?
Seems like its very individual. Ive heard raving about how awesome Dermacrine was during their run and how they will never run a cycle with out it, and then I have seen plenty of threads like this one along with my own experience using it that are negative (Even during cycle)
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
I'm one week into my cycle of 1 Andro and just waiting for lethargy to kick in before I start my test base of Dermacrine. I'll use 2 pumps and see how it goes. Have some epi Andro to switch to if any sides Pop up. If any gyno symptoms develope may I post it on this thread?
 
iThrow

iThrow

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Always important when using a test base (or anything with preg/DHEA) that you have an AI on hand.

Now resveratrol is an AI however, if gyno persists I would recommend what the others are telling you. clomid/nolva for a week and you should see the results start to dissipate. Are you in PCT now OP or are you mid cycle still..? read most, skimmed some, just looking for more answers :)
 
jewgold

jewgold

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Sorry to derail thread
But As far a Dermacrine is concerned is it best to start using it right when taking the first dose of a ph or wait a week or two of having a ph under your belt before using it on a cycle.
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Sorry to derail thread
But As far a Dermacrine is concerned is it best to start using it right when taking the first dose of a ph or wait a week or two of having a ph under your belt before using it on a cycle.
Id start with ph so you don't totally drain natural test before starting test base. You'll probably feel better too
 
delsolrob

delsolrob

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Idk I found it on another board. Will look for it later and link here for people to read.
I've been around for a long time and have not come across this...

with transdermal dhea applications, it does matter where you apply it...don't want it on the stomach. I try to keep it chest/shoulders/upper back.

But, I can't imagine any mechanism to cause extended issues beyond the products use....DHEA halflife is short.
 

SweetLou321

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I've been around for a long time and have not come across this...

with transdermal dhea applications, it does matter where you apply it...don't want it on the stomach. I try to keep it chest/shoulders/upper back.

But, I can't imagine any mechanism to cause extended issues beyond the products use....DHEA halflife is short.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11252535

Find the full text of this study and you will see what I'm talking about.
 

james117

Member
Awards
0
I've read something that said starting test base like epiAndro when test is low from a ph cycle like 7 days in, that it will have a better effect than at start of cycle when test is already high?
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I've read something that said starting test base like epiAndro when test is low from a ph cycle like 7 days in, that it will have a better effect than at start of cycle when test is already high?
Idk if id say a better effect but it will have potential to raise your test more overall than if you were to start when you started ph but that's dosnt mean it's any better for you at all
 

Gstyle24

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I've been around for a long time and have not come across this...

with transdermal dhea applications, it does matter where you apply it...don't want it on the stomach. I try to keep it chest/shoulders/upper back.

But, I can't imagine any mechanism to cause extended issues beyond the products use....DHEA halflife is short.
Why not on the stomach?
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Today was 1 week on Nolva at 40mg ED. I am going to try and taper down to 20mg then 10mg. The lumps are almost completely gone compared to the swelling painful tender prickly itchy lumps I had before. Scary stuff man that was pretty aggressive gyno from DHEA.I'm sure my estrogen is still high so I'm going to run an AI before I come off the Nolva. Arimistane strong enough???
 
Volvo140G

Volvo140G

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Arimistane sucks.... use exemestane
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Today was 1 week on Nolva at 40mg ED. I am going to try and taper down to 20mg then 10mg. The lumps are almost completely gone compared to the swelling painful tender prickly itchy lumps I had before. Scary stuff man that was pretty aggressive gyno from DHEA.I'm sure my estrogen is still high so I'm going to run an AI before I come off the Nolva. Arimistane strong enough???
Letrone! Your best bet man
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Ill try liquid stane but its almost $100 a bottle from reputable source. I heard the generic tabs were often bunk?

How should I dose?
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
Letro?? No way I just need something low dosage to taper off Nolva and keep estrogen at bay. I'm not on a cycle and my gyno is pretty well cleared up. Aromasin sounds like a safer bet.

Letrone! Your best bet man
 
Volvo140G

Volvo140G

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Ill try liquid stane but its almost $100 a bottle from reputable source. I heard the generic tabs were often bunk?

How should I dose?
I'm not sure its "right" but if I were in your.shoes I'd hit it at 25mg for a few days, then 12.5 mg for a couple weeks, then 6.25 mg.daily, then EOD to taper it away.

Again, simply what I'd do... blood work would help too
 
baxtecal

baxtecal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Letro?? No way I just need something low dosage to taper off Nolva and keep estrogen at bay. I'm not on a cycle and my gyno is pretty well cleared up. Aromasin sounds like a safer bet.
Letrone by black lion research, not the chemical lol... It's a natty AI and very very powerful
 
IronAddiction

IronAddiction

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
letrone, and don't pay 100 a bottle for stane ever you are getting ripped like paper in a shredder son.
 

piledbodies

New member
Awards
0
I use the well known expensive site that has sales often. It's $90 plus like $12 shipping if you get it at normal price. Tbh they are the only research chem site I trust and pharm grade is even pricier and always out of stock for non generic.

letrone, and don't pay 100 a bottle for stane ever you are getting ripped like paper in a shredder son.
 
JONimal

JONimal

Member
Awards
1
  • Established

Similar threads


Top