Considering pro-hormones but on the fence. First time.

mcmenace

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I'm 31 years old and have lifting consistently for around 3 years. I am currently ~ 175lbs at 5"11. My body fat is around 11-13%. My diet is fairly clean and I do not drink alcohol. My training regime is strict and I take lifting very seriously. I am getting to the point where I want more and a friend recommended pro-hormones.

After talking with a seemingly knowledgeable employee at a very reputable local nutrition shop (not gnc/vitamin, etc) for over an hour he recommended I start with DZINE from warrior labs. (warriorlabz.com/dzine.html). He also recommended I take "eradicate" from black stone (store.blackstonelabs.co/eradicate ) during the cycle along with 'liv52' for liver support and fish oil for joint support. He also said I could take a cycle support for extra precaution.

For PCT he recommended Super PCT from warrior labs (warriorlabz.com/store/p8/SUPER_PCT.html).

He assured me with this regime that the side effects would be minimal to non existent.

Since I spoke with him I have been researching non stop and to be honest I am fearful of the side effects. I am currently in good health and feel great. I currently take many supplements including (ashwaganda, fish oil, vitajym, beverly beef liver tabs + mass amino, gaba, zma, tumeric and magnolia bark.)

The thought of steroids has been in my mind for many months but I never thought I would make that leap. I also did not realize there was legal pro-hormones in the market.

I have tons of questions but my main concern at the moment is the chance of side effects. (gyno, hair loss, acne, decrease in libido, etc.)
 
TexasLifter89

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It's entirely a decision that only you can make (whether you want to go into cycling or not). Some will tell you that you haven't reached your genetic potential, but there is a strong likelihood that the people who tell you that haven't either and are probably using.

You can start with stuff even lighter than DMZ, something like 1-DHEA (1AD) and 4-DHEA (4AD). You'd be able to get away with an OTC PCT of something like Liquid Labs A-Dex or BLR Rebirth and a favorite test booster of your choice.

You will have minimal risk of gyno, hair loss, acne and loss of libido. Some folks do notice some loss in libido. Before you do any cycle though I'd recommend you get blood work done through something like PrivateMD and your local LabCorp so that you can know your baseline metrics to compare against for a post-PCT bloodwork should you decide to move forward with a cycle.
 

demonfox

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It's entirely a decision that only you can make (whether you want to go into cycling or not). Some will tell you that you haven't reached your genetic potential, but there is a strong likelihood that the people who tell you that haven't either and are probably using.

You can start with stuff even lighter than DMZ, something like 1-DHEA (1AD) and 4-DHEA (4AD). You'd be able to get away with an OTC PCT of something like Liquid Labs A-Dex or BLR Rebirth and a favorite test booster of your choice.

You will have minimal risk of gyno, hair loss, acne and loss of libido. Some folks do notice some loss in libido. Before you do any cycle though I'd recommend you get blood work done through something like PrivateMD and your local LabCorp so that you can know your baseline metrics to compare against for a post-PCT bloodwork should you decide to move forward with a cycle.
^^ exactly what he said
Plus for pct, the best and the right thing to do is to go with SERM. Especially if you're doing dmz
 
zman86

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Your local VitaShop employee either just wants to make a sale(knowing he can't talk about SERMs or anything the shop don't carry) or he's a idiot.

Get yourself a SERM if your doing dmz
 
Afi140

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you need to do much more research before you make the ph jump and do NOT start with DMZ. Once you have researched thoroughly and if you still want to run prohormones start with something like super Mandro and andro the giant. Good gains and minimal sides -great starter ph stack.

That being said I would look into something natural first like epi-plex or follidrone, ABE, and x gels. You can get decent gains (not prohormone level but still good) and continue to grow while you research more thoroughly on prohormones.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/x-gels-by-serious-nutrition-solutions

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/anabeta-elite-by-pes

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel
 
Toren

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My honest advice to you is to stay natural.

For me personally, the results I achieved with natural training are far more rewarding than the gains I have made when experimenting with designer anabolics. Now don't get me wrong, putting on a few lbs and increasing vascularity and muscle fullness is awesome while on cycle, but it does not last unless you are willing to make it last.

I think you really need to ask yourself what your goals are and how long you would like to maintain those goals. I say that because unless you are willing to make the decision to be "on" year round or to atleast cycle twice per year going forward, you will probably be disappointed with the fact that your results will probably only be temporary. At 31 years of age and 175 lbs, I am guessing you are probably close to where you body naturally wants you to be, weight wise. Correct me if I'm wrong and you have undergone some massive cut recently.

I can only imagine the volume of guys who have come on this web-site looking for that magic pill or for lightning in a bottle, only to be disappointed when the results did not come, or more specifically when they did not stay. This may not be you as you are in your 30's and seem to be serious about your training but the point I am trying to make to you is that the "look" you achieve while on cycle is addictive and generally speaking it is not something you can maintain off cycle. Now there are natural compounds out there that will help you maintain that "look" to some degree but all of a sudden you are now on stuff all year long trying to stay looking like you are on cycle. What the body achieves naturally, it will be more obliged to hang on to, as opposed to putting it considrably outside of it's comfort zone in a short period of time and then fighting to keep the gains. I'm not saying it can't be done, there is just a difference.

So again, ask yourself what your goal is and what you are willing to do to get there. Are you willing to buy research chemiclas off of the internet and ingest them in the hopes that they are legit and will restore your natural test levels during PCT? Are you willing to spend hunderds and thousands of dollars over the next few years trying to maintain that look or that high you get off your first cycle? Are you willing to be honest with your doctor about the choices you made if god willing something negative happens to you health-wise because some idiot at your local supplement store is, well, an idiot? Just some things to think about.

If your goal is to truly just get an edge, I would seriously do some research on natural anabolics and stay clear of designer steroids and the potential risks they carry. There is a lot to be said and learned about naturally manipulating your body into gaining what it doesn't naturally want to gain. The commitment level is definitely higher though. Now, I'm not completely negative on designer anabolics as I take them myself, I just think you should consider all of the angles before deciding to take the plunge. Let me assure you, if you are making this thread, you are nowhere close to having considered all of the possible positives and negatives that cycling brings. You can also look into diet and training changes which may give you the edge you are looking for. Sometimes we get caught up in doing things the way we do them and we overlook some obvoius things we can do to bring about positive change in a different way.

In regards to the supplement store "guru" you were tallking to, he may very well be a nice guy but I would not trust anything he says; he is trying to make a sale. I would also NOT start with a desinger steroid. If you must, look in to natural anabolics first, then SARMS and then Steroids. The anabolic growth rewards go up in ascension with that list of three but so do the side effects. By the way, everybody likes to use the cute term "Pro-hormone" when discussing 'sports supplements' in pill form but let me assure you that Dzine is a designer steroid.

As far as his PCT recommendations go.......No! More research is needed on YOUR part.

As far as him saying you should have minimal to no side-effects with his suggestions....No. I mean it's possible but it's also possible that you will have side effects that are more than minimal. You don't know and he certainly doesn't know. He doesn't know how you will react to the compound and he doesn't know what the current state of your health is. There are definitely ways to cycle safely but there are no guarantess here; just know that.

The recommendation to get a hormone panel done prior to cycling is very good. You need to know what you body says now in order to know if you recover properly after cycling. It also might be an indicator of other things. For instance maybe something in the hormone panel will give you some insight as to why you are not getting the results you seek. Maybe your natural T levels are low. Some people do have low T and still feel fine. Normal to you may be abnormal to someone else.

One last time though, what are you goals and what are you willing to do to reach them? Whatever you decide, you definitely need to do some more research. Hopefully I have given you some food for thought. If not, I have certainly added to the possibility of developing Carpal tunnel syndrome.

Best of luck.
 

mcmenace

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Very good replies and food for thought. I am very serious about training and my diet. I am also very serious about my current and future health. Although I already paid and ordered the Dzine and Eradicate I believe I will wait. I ordered animal stak which I know it is what it is but it may give me the "edge", even if placebo that I think I need or at least hold me over until I make an actual decision. I'm not one to do something for no reason and I am more concerned about my health than my looks.

Now I have a new dilemma. After talking to several guys at the gym, who are not natural they have all shot down the idea of a "pro-hormone or legal steroid". Mostly saying if you are going to do that why not do the real thing. I don't think I'm ready for that.

However it was recommended to me from a user that I contact a local doctor that he goes to and look into getting testosterone cypionate as a prescription under doctor supervision (blood work, pct, etc). Although I am doing research now I wonder if anyone can weigh in on the idea of this.
 
Toren

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Very good replies and food for thought. I am very serious about training and my diet. I am also very serious about my current and future health. Although I already paid and ordered the Dzine and Eradicate I believe I will wait. I ordered animal stak which I know it is what it is but it may give me the "edge", even if placebo that I think I need or at least hold me over until I make an actual decision. I'm not one to do something for no reason and I am more concerned about my health than my looks.

Now I have a new dilemma. After talking to several guys at the gym, who are not natural they have all shot down the idea of a "pro-hormone or legal steroid". Mostly saying if you are going to do that why not do the real thing. I don't think I'm ready for that.

However it was recommended to me from a user that I contact a local doctor that he goes to and look into getting testosterone cypionate as a prescription under doctor supervision (blood work, pct, etc). Although I am doing research now I wonder if anyone can weigh in on the idea of this.
Your best bet for making informed decisions will always be a ridiculous amount of research. Being cautious is a good thing and just means something is telling you that you are not ready to make an informed decision yet.

As far as the guys in the gym. They are most likely old-school vets or at least younger guys who learned from OG vets. Most of those guys believe that if you are not pinning steroids, you are not taking real steroids. It's just a different mentality. Let me assure you that Dymethazine is a real steroid; it's just oral as opposed to injectable.

Why would you get Test Cyp as a prescription? Are you planning on just running that one cycle? How long of a cycle? Will you self-administer HRT therapy? Will you blast and cruise? Which ester will you use (if not cypionate)? What AI will you be using to combat E sides? What will you use to combat androgenic sides (prostate/hair loss etc.)? Do you have any kids? Will you use HCG on cycle? Which SERM(S) will you be using for when you plan on coming off?

If you can honestly answer all of those questions, I will suggest that you are ready to CONSIDER that prescription. Honestly though, for me, I'd stay far away from the 'guy at the gym who knows a guy who knows a guy' scenario. Although, doing these things through a legit doctor is certainly better than buying steroids over the internet and hoping for the best. Just know everything you need to know and don't rely on other people to fill in all the holes in your knowledge base.

Take a look into getting that hormone panel done at Private MD labs. Also take a look at natural anabolics like Follidrone or ep1c unleashed. Get your feet wet first and then see how you feel. There's really no point in diving out of the plane without a parachute or jump lessons. :]
 
IronAddiction

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Very good replies and food for thought. I am very serious about training and my diet. I am also very serious about my current and future health. Although I already paid and ordered the Dzine and Eradicate I believe I will wait. I ordered animal stak which I know it is what it is but it may give me the "edge", even if placebo that I think I need or at least hold me over until I make an actual decision. I'm not one to do something for no reason and I am more concerned about my health than my looks.

Now I have a new dilemma. After talking to several guys at the gym, who are not natural they have all shot down the idea of a "pro-hormone or legal steroid". Mostly saying if you are going to do that why not do the real thing. I don't think I'm ready for that.

However it was recommended to me from a user that I contact a local doctor that he goes to and look into getting testosterone cypionate as a prescription under doctor supervision (blood work, pct, etc). Although I am doing research now I wonder if anyone can weigh in on the idea of this.
dzine is literally the real thing, oral double molecule
 

mcmenace

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After the great feedback here and researching I have a much better understanding of how powerful it can be. I don't think it is for me now because I don't think I'm ready for the potential side effects. I really like Torens idea of starting smaller. I am still nearly clueless on most of this but I am trying to get educated before taking a step. I have been reading a great deal about SARMs and am pretty interested. I have read a few peoples logs and they seem to have good results. From what I am understanding most people are saying the liquid form is the way to go as the capsules may not be effective. I'm sure it will not be as good as the Dzine but I also believe it won't carry the same side effects.

As far as the TRT he explained it more but I can't recall everything. He did mention HCG and the shots would be self administered. I'm not sure I want to take that direction at 31 although it is something I have always considered for my mid-late 30's.

To be totally honest I want the effects without the side effects (doesn't everyone), understanding that I can't have cake and eat it too I am looking for something more than a supplement and less than a steroid to boost my diet/training to that next level. My biggest thing is not going into anything in which I consider a serious decision without knowing the consequences.
 

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