How is my Cycle?

[JG93]

First off,
Thank you Booneman.
This is a cutting cycle, current stats
Height: 5'10
Weight: 190
BF:18-20%


Calories a day intake: 1500-1926
5 day/w workout 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off



Here is my Cycle and PCT.

Epistane 6 weeks:

Epistane: 30/40/40/40/40/30

Multi vitamin
TUDCA (250mg per cap, how many caps?)
Cycle Support
Saw palmetto
Taurine
Protein etc..

Pct:
Pct support
Saw palmetto
Nolva 40/40/20/20
AI Exemestane- on hand just in case?
taurine
Multi vit
Protein etc..
TUDCA for the first 2 weeks of PCT(250mg per cap, how many caps?)


Is a cortisol a necessity?

How does this look? Any changes or additions?

I appreciate it.
My goals:
Lose about 8% BF or more
Gain 15Lbs of lean muscle
Increase strength by 20lbs across the board

 

[JG93]

Any info appreciated.

 

[Jebrook]

Overall looks pretty good. -8% is a lot but you can do it if your diet is right. Here's my suggestions:

1. Start TUDCA @ 2 caps. Raise if needed.
2. Taper up rather than tapering EPI up and then down on last week. If you can just do 30/40/40/40/40/40.
3. Nolva dose: 20/20/10/10
4. Epi can be rough on joints so fish oil or joint support is never a bad idea.
5. Cortisol control is not necessary but also not a bad idea if you have the funds.
6. If you do use an AI do it in PCT and taper down.

That's all I can think of. Good luck.

 

[yates84]

Overall looks pretty good. -8% is a lot but you can do it if your diet is right. Here's my suggestions:

1. Start TUDCA @ 2 caps. Raise if needed.
2. Taper up rather than tapering EPI up and then down on last week. If you can just do 30/40/40/40/40/40.
3. Nolva dose: 20/20/10/10
4. Epi can be rough on joints so fish oil or joint support is never a bad idea.
5. Cortisol control is not necessary but also not a bad idea if you have the funds.
6. If you do use an AI do it in PCT and taper down.

That's all I can think of. Good luck.

You took everything I was going to say! I'd like to add definitely use an ai starting the 2nd week of pct and run 2 weeks past your serm to prevent the estrogen rebound that epistane is so notorious for.

 

[Jebrook]

You took everything I was going to say! I'd like to add definitely use an ai starting the 2nd week of pct and run 2 weeks past your serm to prevent the estrogen rebound that epistane is so notorious for.

Great minds and all that buddy.

 

[JG93]

Overall looks pretty good. -8% is a lot but you can do it if your diet is right. Here's my suggestions:

1. Start TUDCA @ 2 caps. Raise if needed.
2. Taper up rather than tapering EPI up and then down on last week. If you can just do 30/40/40/40/40/40.
3. Nolva dose: 20/20/10/10
4. Epi can be rough on joints so fish oil or joint support is never a bad idea.
5. Cortisol control is not necessary but also not a bad idea if you have the funds.
6. If you do use an AI do it in PCT and taper down.

That's all I can think of. Good luck.

With the TUDCA, how will i know if i need to raise?
I will definitely grab some fish oil or joint support.
How should i dose my AI? should i do it whole pct or only if neccessary?
ill start nolva the day after i take my last EPI

 

[Jebrook]

Since your goal is obviously to drop fat and get shredded I suggest you check out Exotherm by BLR. It will go on pre-sale in the next day or two. It is a transdermal fat burning AI. It contains two AI ingredients and two powerful fat burners. Users have been getting dry enough to catch fire with it. Lol. Would definitely aid your goal of dropping bodyfat.

 

[JG93]

You took everything I was going to say! I'd like to add definitely use an ai starting the 2nd week of pct and run 2 weeks past your serm to prevent the estrogen rebound that epistane is so notorious for.

so for the AI, I will start on my second week of pct
At that point my nolva will be 40/40- Start at the beginning of the 2nd week.
run it 2 weeks past the nolva, so even after my pct is complete, continue to run the AI for another 2 weeks? or start at the second week and run it 2 weeks?
sorry confused there!

 

[JG93]

Since your goal is obviously to drop fat and get shredded I suggest you check out Exitherm by BLR. It will go on pre-sale in the next day or two. It is a transdermal fat burning AI. It contains two AI ingredients and two powerful fat burners. Users have been getting dry enough to catch fire with it. Lol. Would definitely aid your goal of dropping bodyfat.

ill check that out, thank you

 

[Jebrook]

500 mg should handle Epi easily providing you stay hydrated. If you notice any jaundice, headaches, dark urine, extreme loss of appetite, these are signs of liver stress. Headaches, dark urine are usually just dehydration so don't get freaked out. Jaundice is definitely the biggest warning sign.

 

[JG93]

500 mg should handle Epi easily providing you stay hydrated. If you notice any jaundice, headaches, dark urine, extreme loss of appetite, these are signs of liver stress. Headaches, dark urine are usually just dehydration so don't get freaked out. Jaundice is definitely the biggest warning sign.

awesome. Thank you. i am gonna do some more liver research to catch all that as well. being a first cycle i wanna be 100 percent ready.

what dose should i take in the Exemestane?

 

[Jebrook]

This is a sample of what PCT would look like. yates84 would be better to ask on Exemestane protocol, but I think that's about right.


PCT:
Nolva
20/20/10/10
Exemestane
0/0/25/12.5/12.5/6.25

 

[JG93]

This is a sample of what PCT would look like. yates84 would be better to ask on Exemestane protocol, but I think that's about right.


PCT:
Nolva
20/20/10/10
Exemestane
0/0/25/12.5/12.5/6.25

Thanks man, Appreciate the help.

I think i am going to do a log. From fat to Shredded in 6 weeks.

not really fat, just a little flabby from being out. 5 broken ribs and a shoulder takes its toll

 

[Jebrook]

Thanks man, Appreciate the help.

I think i am going to do a log. From fat to Shredded in 6 weeks.

not really fat, just a little flabby from being out. 5 broken ribs and a shoulder takes its toll

Right on man. That oughta be good. I'll look for it. And yeah, injuries suck bad!

 

[AustBenny]

The AI protocol I was given for PCT, but for Adex, was to keep dosage the same but like this.

Week 1 - every other day
Week 2 - every other day
Week 3 - every three days
Week 4 - every four days.

Maybe the half lives are different, hopefully Yates chimes in.

 

[Jebrook]

The AI protocol I was given for PCT, but for Adex, was to keep dosage the same but like this.

Week 1 - every other day
Week 2 - every other day
Week 3 - every three days
Week 4 - every four days.

Maybe the half lives are different, hopefully Yates chimes in.

From what I read Exemestane has a shorter half life than other pharma AI's. Some still do the every other day protocol with it though. I'm no expert though. I have some but haven't felt the need to use it yet.
On a side note, there's so
Many different AI and SERM options that it gets confusing remembering the standard dosing for each, especially the emergency ones like Letrozole or the more uncommon ones. Anyone know if there's a good thread detailing all the protocols?

 

[booneman77]

From what I read Exemestane has a shorter half life than other pharma AI's. Some still do the every other day protocol with it though. I'm no expert though. I have some but haven't felt the need to use it yet.
On a side note, there's so
Many different AI and SERM options that it gets confusing remembering the standard dosing for each, especially the emergency ones like Letrozole or the more uncommon ones. Anyone know if there's a good thread detailing all the protocols?

I haven't seen one here. I know I have elsewhere but I'd have to look around.

 

[booneman77]

JG, one question is why are you starting with cals so low? 1500 is crazy low to start a cut with

 

[AustBenny]

There is one I have found useful reading on another website, I can't post links and I don't know if the mods here would like it but here's an excerpt as far as AIs.

Letrozole (Letro)-
Letro lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Letro has a very high rate of estrogen suppression in the area of 90%+, so care should be given to dosing as over suppression could lead to side effects associated with low estrogen levels, like achy joints, low energy levels etc. This can be an issue with all AIs but Letro is very good at its job and that leads to helping prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of AAS.[6] Letro has a fairly long active life so dosing of every other day, to even 1-2 times a week is optimal at doses of 0.25mg - 1.3mg.

Anastrozole (aka LiquiDex/Dex)-
Dex lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Dosing of 0.5 mg to 1 mg a day should reduce serum estradiol about 50% in men,[5] which leads to helping prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of AAS. Active life is fairly short so daily to eod dosing is optimal.

Exemestane (Stane/Aromasin )-
Exemestane lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Exemestane has about an 85% rate of estrogen suppression and does this by selectively inhibiting aromatase activity in a time-dependent and irreversible way. That helps prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of steroids. Stane has a fairly short active life so daily to every other day dosing is optimal.

 

[Jebrook]

Awesome bro. Can you pm me the website?

 

[AustBenny]

Haha, I just did that

 

[Jebrook]

Haha, I just did that

I must spread Reputation around before giving it to AustBenny again. Lol

 

[booneman77]

I must spread Reputation around before giving it to AustBenny again. Lol

Got him

 

[mixedup]

Sorry to be a downer but honestly your goals are not realistic you want to lose approx 15lbs of fat and gain 15lbs of muscle I'm 6 weeks that's losing more than 2lbs of fat while at the same time putting on 2lbs of muscle that just doesn't happen it's too much of a swing. You can get good results and I like your cycle lay out but just tone down your expectations

 

[AustBenny]

Thanks for the reps guys. I have learned so much from these forums it's nice to give something back.

 

[JG93]

JG, one question is why are you starting with cals so low? 1500 is crazy low to start a cut with

Not really sure, just seems good to me, Based on my TDEE i can intake 1,926.

i just so happen to have a meal base that fits 1500. will this hurt me? should i taper down and down?

 

[JG93]

Sorry to be a downer but honestly your goals are not realistic you want to lose approx 15lbs of fat and gain 15lbs of muscle I'm 6 weeks that's losing more than 2lbs of fat while at the same time putting on 2lbs of muscle that just doesn't happen it's too much of a swing. You can get good results and I like your cycle lay out but just tone down your expectations

Appreciate it, My expectations are pretty high, i know that! Although, i like high expectations.
i guess a more legit expectation would be, 8% BF loss, not worried much about losing or gaining weight.
i would like to put on muscle, so lets say 10lbs of muscle? or in general?
everything i read, that is perfectly normal for people.
Thank you.

 

[AustBenny]

I'd be surprised if your TDEE is 1926 - which calculator did you use? And what activity level? Mine is 3300 and I'm same height and approx 195 pounds.

On cycle, you should be able to eat at maintenance, if not slightly over, and make gains and lose fat. That's the point of being on cycle. I would certainly NOT start at 1500, I would start somewhere around 2200 and adjust accordingly. You will NEVER gain 15 pounds of muscle with those calories...EVER. You might lose the 8% body fat though (see mixedup's comments above re your expectations - I don't think they're realistic either.)

I would also be blown away if you could keep yourself to 1500cals on cycle. I couldn't keep myself to 1500cals on a normal day unless I was smoking a bunch of crack.

 

[JG93]

I'd be surprised if your TDEE is 1926 - which calculator did you use? And what activity level? Mine is 3300 and I'm same height and approx 195 pounds.

On cycle, you should be able to eat at maintenance, if not slightly over, and make gains and lose fat. That's the point of being on cycle. I would certainly NOT start at 1500, I would start somewhere around 2200 and adjust accordingly. You will NEVER gain 15 pounds of muscle with those calories...EVER. You might lose the 8% body fat though (see mixedup's comments above re your expectations - I don't think they're realistic either.)

I would also be blown away if you could keep yourself to 1500cals on cycle. I couldn't keep myself to 1500cals on a normal day unless I was smoking a bunch of crack.

AH ****, I cant smoke crack on cycle can i?

i used IIFYM for it, and set it to 25% Ridiculous for fat loss.

Like i said, most importantly is fat loss, with muscle gains to tighten up the skin.

not to say im not hungry during the day, but i really want to get at it hard.

broke 5 ribs and screwed a shoulder, been laid up, gained weight. dont like it. gonna get good before i end my summer!

i go to the gym 3-5 days a week, mostly 5 a week 1-2 hours a day.
other than that, pretty sedimentary.

Maybe i calculated TDEE wrong? ill re-do it.

 

[AustBenny]

25% reduction is pretty crazy, even on cycle.

IMO, the reason for being on cycle is to

(a) Gain mass while minimizing fat gain
(b) Lose fat while saving mass
(c) Gain mass and lose fat simultaneously

All of those things are very difficult to do off cycle. That's why people use AAS and PH. What I personally would do is:

Eat at maintenance for 6 weeks. Train hard, sleep well. Gain 10 pounds of muscle and lose maybe 4-5% body fat. You will be blown away by the difference between 20% and 15% body fat and that 15% will look better than 12% because you also stacked on some mass. You can trust me on that.

 

[JG93]

25% reduction is pretty crazy, even on cycle.

IMO, the reason for being on cycle is to

(a) Gain mass while minimizing fat gain
(b) Lose fat while saving mass
(c) Gain mass and lose fat simultaneously

All of those things are very difficult to do off cycle. That's why people use AAS and PH. What I personally would do is:

Eat at maintenance for 6 weeks. Train hard, sleep well. Gain 10 pounds of muscle and lose maybe 4-5% body fat. You will be blown away by the difference between 20% and 15% body fat and that 15% will look better than 12% because you also stacked on some mass. You can trust me on that.

so eat at maintenance for my cycle, train hard, (wont sleep to well with kids), and i should get where i want?

i think you are right, if i can tighten the skin with muscle and lose at least 5% BF, i would be ecstatic.

maybe a few hundred cals under maintenance? I wanna make sure for sure this goes according to plan!

Stand by and ill re post a new tdee

 

[JG93]

AustBenny
My BMR: 1862
TDEE:2561

sound better?

i just feel im not gonna lose enough at those cals.. unless im steadily gaining muscle, id love to get down to 170 lbs.

 

[AustBenny]

Put it this way, you will want to up your intensity in the gym to stimulate muscle growth and the PH will help you to do that. That in itself will burn more calories without having to cut them out of diet. Remember, fat loss is relevant to BOTH reduction in calories AND increase in exercise.

I would definitely start OVER maintenance by a couple hundred cals. Then assess your progress as the weeks go on and adjust accordingly.

EDIT: Yes, those TDEE figures look better. I think start at 2500cals and see how you progress.

 

[JG93]

Put it this way, you will want to up your intensity in the gym to stimulate muscle growth and the PH will help you to do that. That in itself will burn more calories without having to cut them out of diet. Remember, fat loss is relevant to BOTH reduction in calories AND increase in exercise.

I would definitely start OVER maintenance by a couple hundred cals. Then assess your progress as the weeks go on and adjust accordingly.

EDIT: Yes, those TDEE figures look better. I think start at 2500cals and see how you progress.

I got you, Ill do just that. im going to log this, ill keep you updated. i should start within 1-2 weeks.

i want to get all my ducks in a row.

i still need to figure out if i should run my Exemestane on pct and taper off, or only use it if i see signs.
then i need to figure out what Dosage to take it at for either or.
after that, im waiting on mail.

 

[AustBenny]

Definitely run the AI in PCT as Yates told you above. By the time you see signs, things have gone farther than you want them to.

 

[mixedup]

Your goals looking much more attainable now good luck.
yates84 can you please explain what this pct thing that keeps coming up is???

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Sounds like you dont know that x-amount of kcals is in fact your maintanence, those calculators are only guides...personally id experiment with getting your calorie intake optimised before starting your cycle...lots of variables going on here, some of the most important you seem somewhat in the dark about

cant really see you delaying this for 3 or so weeks whilst you dial in your calories but thought Id put it out there anyway

oh, get bloods done

 

[yates84]

Exemestane is a suicide inhibitor so there is no need for tapering imo. With something like epistane I would do this:
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Exem 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5
This should be plenty to keep the rebound off of you bro

 

[demonfox]

I actually have been researching a lot about AI in pct lately. what I have found so far is that using letro or adex is pct is waste of money if you use nolva because nolva makes like 65% of those ai invalid. So for pct aromasin/exemestane is the best. Also as yates has already pointed out, it is best to use AI in pct to keep off rebound gyno. Also, aromasin actually boosts your test level so couple that with lowering of estro, that's the best pct climate to be in. I just didn't know when to start and what dosage to use aromasin for and Yates has already told us that. So thank you yates.

 

[shakenblake]

Throw some albuterol in there and you got one hell of a stack. 6 Mgs 3-4 times a day

 

[JG93]

Your goals looking much more attainable now good luck.
yates84 can you please explain what this pct thing that keeps coming up is???

Thank you. After I get to week 3 in my cycle, I may adjust my goals accordingly. That way I'm not aiming to high, or to low.
Because either or, is going to cause me to be either to short, or disappointed. Which leads to more.

 

[JG93]

Exemestane is a suicide inhibitor so there is no need for tapering imo. With something like epistane I would do this:
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Exem 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5
This should be plenty to keep the rebound off of you bro

Just what I was looking for, thanks brother!

 

[JG93]

Throw some albuterol in there and you got one hell of a stack. 6 Mgs 3-4 times a day

Albuterol? Makes me think of breathing machine medicine.
What is the upside to it?
6mg 3-5 times a day?

 

[shakenblake]

It is normally used for asthma at extremely low doses. Think of it as fast acting clen without all the nasty sides. It still depletes taurine levels but the shorter half life allows for cycles of 8 weeks. I am running a solo albuterol cycle and have already cut a few lbs in a week. No muscle loss. There are studies proving increases in strength as well (even though it's minor). The main thing to take away is that it complements fat loss or bulking cycle well. Whether you're cutting or not. Not to mention it makes you feel like you could do all the cardio in the world. After about 2 weeks start running keto with it though to avoid beta-2 receptor down regulation

 

[AustBenny]

Albuterol IS great but I would be wary of using on cycle due to blood pressure issues. You could add it to your PCT tho.

Start with 6mg x 2 then slowly ramp up ESPECIALLY if you use it on cycle.

For fat loss with less side effects you could check out GW for on cycle.

 

[JG93]

Albuterol IS great but I would be wary of using on cycle due to blood pressure issues. You could add it to your PCT tho.

Start with 6mg x 2 then slowly ramp up ESPECIALLY if you use it on cycle.

For fat loss with less side effects you could check out GW for on cycle.

I think considering this is my first cycle, I am going to just stick to straight EPI, that way, if sides start happening it is easier to diagnose, with me not knowing.
Would it be possible to use albuterol or gw without a pct? For after my cycle? I just don't want to get in over my head.

 

[yates84]

I think considering this is my first cycle, I am going to just stick to straight EPI, that way, if sides start happening it is easier to diagnose, with me not knowing.
Would it be possible to use albuterol or gw without a pct? For after my cycle? I just don't want to get in over my head.

This is the most intelligent thing I've heard on this forum in a while. Props

 

[demonfox]

this is not related to your cycle but a question regarding epistane
so i know epistane causes joint pains. is it because of low estro? i also know it causes lethargy. so would it be wise to stack epi with 4-andro? cause 4-andro will take care of lethargy and also since it can aromatize, it can also take care of the joint pains cause by low estro level by epi?

 

[JG93]

This is the most intelligent thing I've heard on this forum in a while. Props

Appreciate it man.
I like doing things the right way. And with good folks such as yourself helping guide us noobs through, no reason to take things over the top and screw my self up potentially.

 

[yates84]

this is not related to your cycle but a question regarding epistane
so i know epistane causes joint pains. is it because of low estro? i also know it causes lethargy. so would it be wise to stack epi with 4-andro? cause 4-andro will take care of lethargy and also since it can aromatize, it can also take care of the joint pains cause by low estro level by epi?

Yes, 4 andro would help with your joints and the lethargy. Sounds like a good stack