MK-2886 Questions

[Steve Rogers]

I'm planning on doing a recomp with MK-2886 @ 30mg ED for 45 days from CnP followed up by their PCT. I'm a tad bit worried about the possible estradiol. I was wondering if PES ErasePro might be OK to use with this starting at the 2-week mark? Maybe just keep it on hand? It sounds like a regular SERM isn't really needed, but I'd like to be careful. Maybe the two together will work well for recomp anyway?

Also, I've done extensive reading on this stuff -- and it sounds good for recomping, sort of like Tren (lean gains, low water retention, low estrogen sides). Is this anything like Tren? I've had some experience many, many years ago w/Tren and liked it.

I'm not looking for much mass, but if I gain a few lbs and strength that'd be great. I've read all the existing threads on this, and I couldn't quite get a solid answer from anyone on the ErasePro idea. It seems a lot of people like to stack other stuff with MK-2886, anything come to mind or a recomp? Maybe xgels? I was thinking of doing xgels and ABE for a bulk this fall though...

Thanks guys!

 

[cheeky1]

I came off a PH cycle that ended with tren 60/60/90. Went onto pct for 4 weeks (LG Sciences Form XT) & the natty booster for 4 weeks. Ran osta for those 8 weeks & for me, it was like I was still on tren, albeit a lower dose. Shape, fullness, vascularity & lean too.

I'm less inclined to like the erase pro idea. Shutting off that much estrogen when levels aren't high might cause you some problems. Why not run a natty booster (with built in estro modulator) or epiandro for first 4 weeks, then if more cut is required go for Reduce XT, or Dermacrine, or a good fat burner (which you can add in anytime, really)?

Another option is a new product from BLR - Lectrone, there's a new thread in here for it somewhere & it'll work well with SARMs. From what Brundle & the guys are saying this might just be what you're looking for.

 

[cheeky1]

There's more info in the Ostar1ne thread.

Also, given your size 20mg ed will likely be sufficient. 25mg in OstaLean is decent value.

Sorry, that's LETRONE :fing02:

 

[Steve Rogers]

Maybe I'll run 15mg/ED? It's the CnP brand and it's on the way...so it's either do 15/30/45 :/

That lectrone sounds interesting, as an antiaromitase is really all I'd want, I don't want to stomp all the estrogen into the ground to have it rebound back.

When I did tren years and years ago I had the standard nolva on hand and did a simple clomid PCT. No problems at all. No estrogen problems from the tren, so I might not be very sensitive.

I might pick up that new stuff to keep on deck, exciting that it may have anabolic properties of its own. I'm coming of Cannibal Claw tomorrow, so I won't start any of this for a few weeks at least. If I decided to go 15/ED I could run two separate 6 week cycles. One in a few weeks, and one several months down the road.

 

[cheeky1]

Good plan.
The 25mg rule of thumb is pretty broad, I don't know what body weight that's based on as it's got to be shared around all of the muscle receptors. At 144lbs, no way in the world will you require the same amount as a Ronnie Coleman type.

I'd stick with 15mg daily, you can always go to 30mg from week 4 on to see if there's a difference. I found that noticeable effects became apparent after about 2 weeks, my customers report similar findings. It knida creeps up on you, but the hunger is near immediate :food:

Letrone & osta for 6 weeks, that sounds sweet...& affordable too!! Just stretch the Letrone, you might find that 1cap/day is enough.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Some other things I'll be running along side:

-Ergonine (for my creatine)
-Daily chewable multi (I take bariatric chewables, they have more in them)
- Sesathin
-Astaxanthin
-ZMA

... I wonder what other staples or basics I'm leaving out?

 

[mountainman33]

First off, you'll need a SERM for PCT. Second, Osta has shown some evidence of increased estro production so adding Erase Pro isn't going to hurt you, most likely it'll be beneficial. Third, 30 mgs. is a little on the high side for dosing. 20 - 25 is typical, but if you want to run 30 mgs. then split up your doses. Every 12 hours maybe? It's not like Tren. Tren is a methylated PH with potential prolactin sides as it's a progesterone. Osta is a SARM, not methylated, but you will be shut down. Some people have lethargy and libido issues, some do not. Running Epiandro along your Osta cycle isn't a bad idea. And keep an eye on your BP.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I was planning on running Chaos & Pain's Cannibal Alpha PCT after the Osta. No buneo?

 

[mountainman33]

Not unless you want it to take FOREVER for your natural production to start back up.

 

[Steve Rogers]

You think Black Lion's Rebirth might be worth using PCT for a 15/15/15/15/15/15?

 

[warrior737]

I was planning on running Chaos & Pain's Cannibal Alpha PCT after the Osta. No buneo?

I used 2 tubs of that stuff (I think it was like 6 caps 3 times a day) back to back and nothing. Not even a boost in libido. I believe the product is under dosed.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I did a standard clomid PCT after a 6 week tren cycle and was fine -- clomid seems a little excessive for 15mg ED of Osta? I see all sorts of exotic PCT stacks around here and I never remember PCT being so complicated, even guys on pretty "wet" stacks that were way more advanced that myself weren't doing 3-4 compounds at the same time for PCT.

 

[gator67]

You think Black Lion's Rebirth might be worth using PCT for a 15/15/15/15/15/15?

This is what I'm running after a 15/15/15/20/20/20 cycle. I'm using inhibit e a couple times a week. I've been wanting to try rebirth and this is a perfect place.

 

[mountainman33]

I did a standard clomid PCT after a 6 week tren cycle and was fine -- clomid seems a little excessive for 15mg ED of Osta? I see all sorts of exotic PCT stacks around here and I never remember PCT being so complicated, even guys on pretty "wet" stacks that were way more advanced that myself weren't doing 3-4 compounds at the same time for PCT.

Clomid might seem excessive, but considering people can get shut down by even just 3 mgs of Osta, it's the smart way to go.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Okay, here's revised plan:

Ostra: 15/15/15/15/15/15
Letrone: 1/ED x 6 weeks
Rebirth PCT 4-6 weeks

Sound solid?

 

[gator67]

Looks good. Are you going to log it? Interested to see how the Letrone treats you.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I'd like to def. keep a log, it gives me ref. points as well as helps others. I probably won't do a daily log, more like a weekly summary for each of the 6 weeks. I have a "smart scale" that supposedly tells me my BF (I really only trust the weight part). I suppose if I stay consistant with that scale, despite what the starting number is, it might be usefull information.

I have an UP24 that I use to track my sleep, something I haven't seen other people throw into their logs -- as I firmly believe sleep is critical to growing. When I did my tren run about 12 years ago I ate as much as humanly possible, and slept 12 hours a day (I was in college so I could lol). I'll be tracking how much deep vs. light sleep I'm getting to see if the substances interfere with my "normal" sleep patterns. I have established data going back several months on that info, so I know what it ought to look like.

I'll also be finalizing a diet plan of attack, not much different than what I'm doing now -- but tweak it and firm up any weak spots. It's a recomp, so I won't be eating insane calories over my maint. I need to figure out how to get more healthy EFA's into my diet for example.

 

[gator67]

I'm on a variation of the anabolic diet right now, so my fat intake is high and it's easy. I have used Udos oil blend in the past with gud results. Very high quality mix of era's. Sleep probably is of equal importance to diet/training, especially as we age. Couldn't agree more.

 

[cheeky1]

Okay, here's revised plan:

Ostra: 15/15/15/15/15/15
Letrone: 1/ED x 6 weeks
Rebirth PCT 4-6 weeks

Sound solid?

This will be interesting to watch, especially with the Letrone. Looks good :33:

 

[mountainman33]

I hope the Rebirth works well for you. I really do.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I hope the Rebirth works well for you. I really do.

Well, considering it's my body -- the price of clomid is worth it.

If I decide to run clomid as my PCT, that should be enough? Save the dough on the Rebirth and use clomid instead? I've done clomid before, so I know how my body handles it.

I already have the osta and letrone on the way, so I'd just need to have the clomid. I don't want to start anything unless all pieces are in place.

Does this sound a little more sensible?

Osta: 15/15/15/15/15/15
Letrone: 1 ED (or more as needed)
Clomid PCT: 35/35/35/35

If I did it this way, I'd have enough osta and clomid to do another 6 week run later in the year, and just need to pick up more Letrone.

 

[cheeky1]

Not sure I understand the need for clomid, especially at such a low dose of osta, although mountainman undoubtedly has far more experience in this field than I. Why not send Brundle & the crew at BLR a msg and see what their recommendations are? To my way of thinking, Letrone is going to do the hard work & should keep you bouncing along nicely with no shutdown. Why not just go with the Rebirth & add Clomid if it's insufficient?

 

[yates84]

Not sure I understand the need for clomid, especially at such a low dose of osta, although mountainman undoubtedly has far more experience in this field than I. Why not send Brundle & the crew at BLR a msg and see what their recommendations are? To my way of thinking, Letrone is going to do the hard work & should keep you bouncing along nicely with no shutdown. Why not just go with the Rebirth & add Clomid if it's insufficient?

mod edit: attacks on sponsors from other reps is not going to be tolerated.

 

[mountainman33]

Not sure I understand the need for clomid, especially at such a low dose of osta, although mountainman undoubtedly has far more experience in this field than I. Why not send Brundle & the crew at BLR a msg and see what their recommendations are? To my way of thinking, Letrone is going to do the hard work & should keep you bouncing along nicely with no shutdown. Why not just go with the Rebirth & add Clomid if it's insufficient?

As stated previously in this thread, even as little as 3 mgs Osta has been shown to shut people down. It acts like an exogenous hormone, so your body THINKS it's an exogenous hormone. And how is Letrone going to prevent shutdown exactly? It's an aromitaze inhibitor. It'll help with Osta's apparent ability to increase estrogen production, but keep him "bouncing along nicely"? How so? Don't get me wrong, BLR makes good, quality products, but until I can see consistent blood work showing Rebirth working just as well as a true SERM, I'll be recommending true SERMs for the fastest return of natural production. I don't leave things to "chance" with my body.

 

[cheeky1]

Just because brundel says it's gtg doesn't mean anything. He is running a business and wants to sell product. Period. You already know what he is going to say. Why is everyone scared of clomid? It has stood the test of time. There is a very good reason clomid is a part of almost everyone's pct, it is cheap and very effective. You say why clomid, I say why not?

Fair enough, I personally don't like the side effects that clomid can produce, but each to their own & I respect your reasoning. Thank you for the response, that's why I posed the question.

 

[yates84]

Fair enough, I personally don't like the side effects that clomid can produce, but each to their own & I respect your reasoning. Thank you for the response, that's why I posed the question.

If you dose clomid at 50/50/25/25 you should be able to avoid any negative side effects that clomid may cause. Higher doses of clomid don't agree with me (100mg) personally but since I started using this protocol I feel great on clomid, no negative sides only positive ones.

 

[cheeky1]

As stated previously in this thread, even as little as 3 mgs Osta has been shown to shut people down. It acts like an exogenous hormone, so your body THINKS it's an exogenous hormone. And how is Letrone going to prevent shutdown exactly? It's an aromitaze inhibitor. It'll help with Osta's apparent ability to increase estrogen production, but keep him "bouncing along nicely"? How so? Don't get me wrong, BLR makes good, quality products, but until I can see consistent blood work showing Rebirth working just as well as a true SERM, I'll be recommending true SERMs for the fastest return of natural production. I don't leave things to "chance" with my body.

Thanks for the reply, this is what I like to hear. The bit that gets me is "as little as 3mgs osta has been shown to shut people down." So you like to take the big stick to it just in case, I prefer to try the softer approach & ramp up if need be. Will 6 weeks at 15mg ED leave someone shut down for life? Unlikely, but am I going to recommend the OP going against your advice? No, i'm not. You work in the industry, know the products and that has to count for a good deal.

My experience: 8 weeks on 20-25mg osta ED for 8 weeks as part of a pct, with DAA and natty booster to finish and my test levels rose. Bloods to prove? No. Just knowledge of my body. Will that be everyone's experience? No, it will not.

 

[3pic_B3ast]

Thanks for the reply, this is what I like to hear. The bit that gets me is "as little as 3mgs osta has been shown to shut people down." So you like to take the big stick to it just in case, I prefer to try the softer approach & ramp up if need be. Will 6 weeks at 15mg ED leave someone shut down for life? Unlikely, but am I going to recommend the OP going against your advice? No, i'm not. You work in the industry, know the products and that has to count for a good deal.

My experience: 8 weeks on 20-25mg osta ED for 8 weeks as part of a pct, with DAA and natty booster to finish and my test levels rose. Bloods to prove? No. Just knowledge of my body. Will that be everyone's experience? No, it will not.

No one knows their body on this board bro. Bloods or it didn't happen

 

[cheeky1]

If you dose clomid at 50/50/25/25 you should be able to avoid any negative side effects that clomid may cause. Higher doses of clomid don't agree with me (100mg) personally but since I started using this protocol I feel great on clomid, no negative sides only positive ones.

Clomid isn't so easy to come by where i'm from, and an OTC PCT can be had for less than half the price. If it's what you can get & what has worked for you in past, then I can see why you'd recommend it, but it's not the most practical option for all.

 

[cheeky1]

No one knows their body on this board bro. Bloods or it didn't happen

Damn you guys are mad for bloods!! Tough for pre-workout reviews :slaphappy:

 

[cheeky1]

For a natty SERM I use this on PH cycle. It keeps me dry & others I've recommended it to have also had great success. It's cheap & has other useful health benefits. If use of/access to clomid or nolva were limited, or undesireable, would this not be suitable for someone running osta, making an OTC test booster or PCT a more viable option following?

Estrosense
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calcium D-Glucarate 150 mg **
Indole-3-Carbinol 150 mg **
Sulforaphane (from BroccoPhane broccoli sprout powder) 200 mcg **
Sunphenon Green Tea (Camellia sinensis), powdered extract, decaffeinated (leaf)
Polyphenols (80%) 100 mg
80 mg **
**
Turmeric (Curcuma longa), powdered extract (root)
Curcuminoids (95%) 50 mg
47.5 mg **
**
Milk Thistle (Silybum marianum), powdered extract (seed)
Total flavonoids (80%) 50 mg
40 mg **
**
Di-Indoylmethane (DIM) 50 mg **
Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis), powdered extract (leaf)
Carnosic acid (6%) 25 mg
1.5 mg **
**
Lyc-O-Mato Lycopene 5 mg **

 

[Jebrook]

Clomid isn't so easy to come by where i'm from, and an OTC PCT can be had for less than half the price. If it's what you can get & what has worked for you in past, then I can see why you'd recommend it, but it's not the most practical option for all.

^^^ I agree with this. The thing that kept me from real ph use for many years was reluctance to roll the dice on shady research Chems. I have used them now and will again if needed. But a legal SERM option that is readily available brings a lot of peace of mind. With BLR you can rest assured that Rebirth has in it what it says it does at the dose it says. And that it was specifically designed and researched for human consumption. Time will tell if it is a "better" option. Honestly it isn't being touted as "better". IMO it is safer and comparable.

 

[3pic_B3ast]

Damn you guys are mad for bloods!! Tough for pre-workout reviews :slaphappy:

Sorry I was being cheeky:lmao:

 

[kisaj]

Not sure I understand the need for clomid, especially at such a low dose of osta, although mountainman undoubtedly has far more experience in this field than I. Why not send Brundle & the crew at BLR a msg and see what their recommendations are? To my way of thinking, Letrone is going to do the hard work & should keep you bouncing along nicely with no shutdown. Why not just go with the Rebirth & add Clomid if it's insufficient?

Yep, and Brundel will say to try Rebirth because it is proving to be very effective and he has put a lot of time and research into it so he stands behind it. Most people I know would love to have a natural option for PCT without any sides and now they have one. Believe it or not, Clomid isn't something that is really preferable, it just has been the go to because that was what was known to use. Unfortunately, a lot of people need to go the RC route as it isn't as easy to come by as some try to make it sound. And I'd never go an RC route unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Steve Rogers]

The thing is, the last time I did clomid I didn't have any negative sides. The woman at the time was certainly surprised at the...erm..."other" side effect in the bedroom.

It's been over a decade since I've been in the game, and back then I had foreign made tabs. The scene was different back then I guess.This liquid stuff scares the bejeezus out of me quite frankly, and it seems hard to dose/take.

An OTC PCT would be preferable if it had a good reputation and track record, but I'll see what I can do about clomid..it still seems like the safest and most prudent route.

 

[brundel]

Rebirth and Letrone is more than sufficient for your PCT.
Im not in the business of selling snake oil. If it didnt work we wouldnt sell it. Period. There are labs up for Rebirth on this forum where after PCT the subjects HPTA was better than Pre cycle. We also ran a ton of labs before release. Rebirth is solid.
Letrone is a freak of nature literally. On average estro drops 65% in 2 weeks. On average LH increased 500%.
I do my homework and run a host of trials before we release products so that our customers can rely on our them. This is the whole point and purpose.

To imply that I am lying to sell product is disingenuous at very best.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Thanks brundel ...

Would you say that 1 Letrone/day would be sufficient? Or should I run it 1 EOD? If I can get away with 1 EOD I might have enough to run a 2nd Osta cycle.

 

[brundel]

I would do 1 per day for PCT considering the cycle. I dont think estrogen should be super bad going into it so we just need a nudge in the negative direction to kick test production up and to keep it going post PCT.
You do want to have a successful PCT so...at least 1 Letrone daily.

1 Rebirth twice a day. 4 weeks.
1 Letrone- 1-2 times daily. 4 weeks.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I was thinking of running the Letrone alongside the Osta to help prevent estrodial/estrogen sides. You think the Letrone is more suited for PCT than on cycle? Rebirth seems like it's a estrogen blocker while Letrone seems to be an AI. Do I have this right?

 

[Steve Rogers]

So -- Letrone and Rebirth together are sort of like a nolva/clomid combo? Am I getting this right?

I'm thinking of running ReduceXT for coritsol support. Can't hurt, right?

 

[brundel]

So -- Letrone and Rebirth together are sort of like a nolva/clomid combo? Am I getting this right?

I'm thinking of running ReduceXT for coritsol support. Can't hurt, right?

Nolva and clomid are SERMS.
Rebirth= SERM

Arimidex and aromasin and letrozole are aromatase inhibitors. AI
Letrone=AI


A SERM binds to estro receptors and prevents estrogens action there.
An AI binds to aromatase which is the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. This prevents your test from becoming estro.
They should be used in concert for PCT purposes.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Thanks for clearing that up -- In any case I'll have them both on hand during the Osta so if estrogen sides flare up, I can start taking the Letrone. .

 

[Jebrook]

So -- Letrone and Rebirth together are sort of like a nolva/clomid combo? Am I getting this right?

I'm thinking of running ReduceXT for coritsol support. Can't hurt, right?

Rebirth/Letrone is a great combo for PCT. Basically SERM + AI. Clomid+ Nolva is SERM + SERM. and yes Reduce XT is always a nice PCT addition even though not a critical component.

 

[abformulations]

Well put ^

 

[brundel]

Thanks for clearing that up -- In any case I'll have them both on hand during the Osta so if estrogen sides flare up, I can start taking the Letrone. .

Letrone is perfect for this. Youll get the estro suppression but also potentially increased endocrine function.
HGH
IGF-1
t3,t4
cAMP
Ghrelin

 

[Steve Rogers]

I haven't seen anyone do this, or really address this from the hours of PCT research I've been doing:

What happens after PCT? Doesn't the estrogen/estrodial rebound? Shouldn't you taper the PCT to allow your body to get back into homeostasis? I don't plan on bridging into another cycle right away -- at least another month or two.

In any case, I have the Letrone on the way -- should be here tomorrow, I'll order the Rebirth this coming Monday -- Look to possibly start a week from tomorrow!

As I said before, I'll also be logging my sleep as well -- even during PCT to see how these things impact my normal sleep patterns. I have a Withings WS-50 digital WiFi scale that has a companion app on my phone. It graphs weight and BF %. I'll be using that all cycle and during PCT. I can post up the graphs.It's no displacement or caliper test, but it's better than nothing...

 

[gator67]

Honestly, unless you're very prone to shutdown, I think that may be a little excessive. I'm 48 and my first run with OL osta was 25/25/25/25/25 and I used super 3 pct only and it took about a week till I was normal in the libido department. The Letrone is an AI , so no, not like a Clomid/Nolva combo. More like Clomid/exemestane. If you're in on the rebirth and already have the Letrone, at most you should throw in a test booster, like Viron our LJ 100. I've used the Viron and had good results standalone. Personally I'm going to run the LJ100 because I love Olympus Labs products, but you can't go wrong either way.

 

[brundel]

Ok so the primary goal of PCT is to recover HPTA function with a secondary goal to retain as much of your hard earned gains as possible.

In men estrogen is made primarily via an enzymatic conversion. The enzyme is aromatase. Testosterone>aromatase=estrogen.

When estrogen levels are low LH(lutenizing hormone) rises which signals the testes to make more testosterone so that the testosterone can in turn be converted into estrogen.
Conversely when estrogen is too high the LH switch is turned off.

So....a HUGE part of PCT is sort of crushing estrogen levels. This way the LH switch is turned on and stays on post PCT.
Your last day of PCT you want=
higher than normal test levels or..as high as possible.
Lower than normal estrogen levels.

This way when you stop PCT therapy and your body seeks homeostasis your estro will rise slightly and test will drop slightly and your levels will equalize in the normal range with test being highish and estro being lowish.
= success regarding HPTA function.

Secondarily I would add other things to your PCT.
Creatine
Follidrone

this way you have some help maintaining gains.

Letrone
Rebirth
Viron= great PCT

Even better is adding Follidrone and some creatine.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I'm currently and will keep running E9 -- great creatine product.

I have to say, if 15mg of Osta ED/6 weeks doesn't do much in the way of recomp (with good diet/training)...I'm going to feel silly with a heavy PCT. In fact, I may see better results/gains from the PCT itself!

 

[mixedup]

I think blr is a solid company most don't remember but another company came out with an otc pct I said fawk it because I did I ran the otc after a sdrol cycle came back fine. But then some say I'm freaky. You can try the blr stack if it's not exactly what u want go get clomid nothing says you can't run clomid later