Help needed...Letro and Tamoxifen gyno reversal...

[Gymmer8]

Hi all,

This is my first post after being a member for years and having finally had enough of scrolling through millions of pages in the hope of finding an answer to my query!

I have had gyno under left nipple for 3 years now which subsided after an epistane cycle and full on point pct, but then to my dismay a lump under my right nipple flared up which seemed to shrink for a while but is the size of a small marble and is rather tender to touch, that has been there now for around 18 months.

I could sit here and make this post a whole lot longer but basically I have read an article which is showing a protocol to reverse gyno or hopefully help. (I know 99% of people will say surgery is only option) I am looking at number 3 in the article I will copy and paste below,

All I would like input on is whether you think I could maybe run epistane at 15mg a day for 5-6 weeks in the hope it will reduce the lump a little as it did in the past and looking at others people's experiences with it, then using protocol 3 in the article below for a pct with maybe some daa added. Or whether to just stick to the letro and nolva on there own to see if it rids me or helps with my current gyno before touching any pro hormone at all, be it small dosing or whatever. I think I know what people will say but it would be absolutely brilliant to get a few people's views and opinions.

Here is the article. I have deleted a lot of the stuff not needed for what I am talking about...

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
__________________


Thanks in advance to anyone who replies! I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Volvo140G]

What'd your pct look like?

When exactly post pct did the lump form?

 

[Gymmer8]

Do you mean what did my pct look like previous cycle or what I intend it to be if I ran epistane again if the out come is I run another cycle?

My lump flared up right side straight after but only had tamoxifen on hand and couldn't at the time get any letro so was caught out when I thought I'd be fine after reading the many reports of epistane not causing gyno.i ran Olympus labs ep15tane with arimacare pro and super pct with tamoxifen and daa if my memory serves me right.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Daa abd nolva can elevate prolactin if I remember correctly. That plus estrogen rebound from epi is probably is what did you in

 

[Gymmer8]

Thanks for input. I stopped the daa as soon as poss.

Would like some opinion/input on what first post was about if anyone can tell me what they think....

Again, thanks to all.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

I mean it's the standead,protocol for gyno parroted on all the boards. From my experience it takes way longer to taper off letro. And other people's experiences suggest raloxifene alone to be a less harsh treatment. If you go the ralox route I would have an AI on hand to prevent estrogen rebound/sensitivity or whatever way serms can cause gyno if you don't taper them properly.

 

[Gymmer8]

I plan on running it exactly how it says above in the article and tapering off the letro very gradually.

Do you think it would be wise to steer clear of running epistane before I give this a go, or any as/ph for that matter?

If I was to run epistane it would be at very low dosage as I have read a few posts on various forums saying low dosage (say 15mg ed) for say 5-6 weeks may help further for what I am looking to do. If I was to do that I would obviously get an on cycle support product like ar1macare pro.

Would the letro tamoxifen I will be doing suffice for a pct or would you add a test boost or something like erase pro?

Thanks

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Yes I think it's a bad idea to run a PH while doing this. Just trey and get rid of your gyno before hopping back on

 

[Jebrook]

^^^agreed. Focus on fixing the gyno first. Cycle later.

 

[Gymmer8]

Thank you for your input SquatsAndOats.

I will get this done and hopefully fingers crossed my gyno may subside. I am not holding my breath, but hopefully it will work. Even if the tenderness goes and it shrinks, that's something!

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Avoiding the rebound from letro is key. I've tried,this once or twice but every time I seem to get rebound from the letro. Taper off very slowly

 

[Gymmer8]

I may stay on .5 for a week and then .25 for a week then got the tamoxifen at 20 then taper off this also. Would you take a test booster once finished or wait a few weeks. I'm worried about losing a bit of muscle in this space of time....not least as I am going to L.A on holiday mid September! I have creative, a pwo, and a protein as always but the trouble is I think even daa gives me nipple soreness after a week or so! Maybe that is down to the existing gyno though....

 

[SquatsAndOats]

You'll be fine. Your joint will probably just be sore while on letro. I would not take a test booster because most are **** and the ones thay work will just allow for more test to be aromatized. The nipple soreness from daa is,Probst existing gyno aggrivated by elevated prolactin levels

 

[Gymmer8]

You my friend have really helped. I will crack on with what I have set to be delivered, and I will let you know how it goes...

Until then, thanks again.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

No problem

 

[bad rad]

I didn't see it mentioned but Nolvadex blocks the absorbtion of Letrozole by about 37% in research.

However, plasma levels of letrozole were reduced by a mean 37.6% during combination therapy (P < 0.0001), and this reduction persisted after 4–8 months of combination therapy.

clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/5/9/2338.full]Impact of Tamoxifen on the Pharmacokinetics and Endocrine Effects of the Aromatase Inhibitor Letrozole in Postmenopausal Women with Breast Cancer

 

[Gymmer8]

I will only start the tamoxifen once I finish with the letro which I will be tapering down very gradually. I thought that would be the thing to do?

 

[bad rad]

I will only start the tamoxifen once I finish with the letro which I will be tapering down very gradually. I thought that would be the thing to do?

This was the recommendation of the study architects, running them alternately. From what I remember Letro only reverses non-glandular gyno. Once it becomes fiberous you're screwed. Lift your arm from affected side over head and if the lump is still there it's most likely glandular.

 

[Gymmer8]

Yep it's there....

I am going to try it anyway, I feel like this is last resort. I am sort of not even expecting it to go fully, but if it shrinks just a little and becomes painless like my left side, I will be happier. It is currently the size of a small marble I would say. My partner and mates say they can't notice it. But I think you can and I KNOW I can!

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Yep it's there....

I am going to try it anyway, I feel like this is last resort. I am sort of not even expecting it to go fully, but if it shrinks just a little and becomes painless like my left side, I will be happier. It is currently the size of a small marble I would say. My partner and mates say they can't notice it. But I think you can and I KNOW I can!

The,pain will go away eventually. Pain means there's a hormonal problem like high estrogen or prolactin.

 

[bad rad]

The,pain will go away eventually. Pain means there's a hormonal problem like high estrogen or prolactin.

This, I ended up with double gyno during puberty. I eventually had it removed and it was the size of a B-cup. You couldn't tell until I started lifting and my chest grew.

 

[Gymmer8]

So to finalise.

I should just stick to the protocol, very gradual taper off letro then the tamoxifen and steer clear most definitely of a low dosage of epistane in the hope it may shrink a little before hitting the letro and tamoxifen.

Also, nothing in the way of test booster whilst running the letro and tamoxifen?

Cheers all

 

[SquatsAndOats]

That is,correct. No epistane no test boosters. Letro raises LH anyways so you'll get a nice little spike and placebo effect from that. Only thing I'd change us raloxifene instead of tamoxifen but that's bore of a personal choice

 

[Gymmer8]

Hi all,

Been on 2.5mg for over a month now, all is good in terms of lump size, around an 75-80% decrease I'd say, but it does seem it has got as small as it is going to on one side and seems like it has been at the same size for around a week. Sex drive wasn't hit as hard as I thought although it was hit a bit, not going to lye!Have still been hitting the gym at around 85% in terms of visits so not to displeased on that front either.

My question is, do I bite the bullet and start tapering down now or stick at it to try and rid of the lump completely, bearing in mind I have had it for 18 months plus and it may be as small as it is ever going to be, then once tapered down to .5 start on the 10mg of tamoxifen as stated I would do in my original post. Couple it with the fact I don't exactly want to be taking 2.5mg of let to everyday for what seems like a long time!

All responses are greatly appreciated guys, and as always, thank you in advance.

?️

 

[Volvo140G]

2.5 mg for over a month?

I might move on and begin to taper. Sounds like sides didn't beat u up too bad.... good to hear

 

[Gymmer8]

Are you sort of in agreement it probably has subsided about as much as it can then? Those were my thoughts.

I think I will start to taper from today. Starting at 2.0 for 3 days then 1.5 for 3 days, then 1.0 for 3 days, then .5 for 3, taking the tamoxifen on the last days of .5.

 

[Gymmer8]

By the way my plan is to take 20mg tamoxifen for ten days then a week at 10mg. Any need to taper further?