MSTEN WITHOUT DERMACRINE?

1kerry

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Is a bad idea to run a 4 week (10/10/20/20) Msten cycle without Dermacrine? Im planning to run this cycle inmeadiately after my ostarine 10 weeker...

thanks!
 
booneman77

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if it were alone, I'd say no, you could get away with it. But after 10 weeks of osta you're already most likely gonna be feeling pretty crappy.
 

1kerry

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if it were alone, I'd say no, you could get away with it. But after 10 weeks of osta you're already most likely gonna be feeling pretty crappy.
thanks again bro!

So, maybe the question should be, IS A BAD IDEA TO START AN MSTEN CYCLE RIGHT after an Osta cycle?
 
Jebrook

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if it were alone, I'd say no, you could get away with it. But after 10 weeks of osta you're already most likely gonna be feeling pretty crappy.
I ran Msten w dermacrine and the lethargy was tough. If I forgot a dose of Dermacrine it would kick in hard. For me the Dermacrine barely handled it.
 
booneman77

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thanks again bro!

So, maybe the question should be, IS A BAD IDEA TO START AN MSTEN CYCLE RIGHT after an Osta cycle?
with no test base... probably.

That said, I just jumped from 8wks of osta into 6 weeks of epi/tren (the combo IML ph, not each) and felt 9823754075024 times better (with no base) on the epitren than I did the last 4 weeks of osta. Libido came back, gains, fat loss, etc etc.
 

1kerry

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I ran Msten w dermacrine and the lethargy was tough. If I forgot a dose of Dermacrine it would kick in hard. For me the Dermacrine barely handled it.
so, in your experience, dermacrine will help just a bit?
 

1kerry

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Im currently on a budget, and if I save the derma money would be wonders!
 

1kerry

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with no test base... probably.

That said, I just jumped from 8wks of osta into 6 weeks of epi/tren (the combo IML ph, not each) and felt 9823754075024 times better (with no base) on the epitren than I did the last 4 weeks of osta. Libido came back, gains, fat loss, etc etc.
my osta cycle is a 10 week or maybe 11? @10/10/15/15/20/20/20/20/20/20/ 5??
 
Jebrook

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Im currently on a budget, and if I save the derma money would be wonders!
I can't answer that with a guarantee because everyone reacts different. I know I will never cycle Msten without something for lethargy. Next time I will do 4 and to or Formeron. I don't feel Dermacrine was quite enough for me.
 

1kerry

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I can't answer that with a guarantee because everyone reacts different. I know I will never cycle Msten without something for lethargy. Next time I will do 4 and to or Formeron. I don't feel Dermacrine was quite enough for me.
yeah! i have formeron on hand, so that will do the trick?
 
Jebrook

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Yes formeron can help sometimes with on cycle lethargy. I haven't tried with Msten yet but it's worth a shot.
 
Toren

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Definitely run the Dermacrine on cycle; you'll be thankful that you did. I'd start @ 3 pumps ED.

Also, if you have enough Ostarine leftover, run it at 10mg ED for the first two weeks of your cycle while you are at 10mg Msten. Don't worry about competition between the compounds. Just take the Ostarine 10-12 hours away from your Msten. You can thank me later. ;]
 
Toren

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So, maybe the question should be, IS A BAD IDEA TO START AN MSTEN CYCLE RIGHT after an Osta cycle?
My last two cycles I ran Ostarine as a warm-up and focused on fat loss. I really liked the results and was able to use Osta as a means to help shed bodyfat before the cycles. The first time I ran it for 7 weeks prior, with XI-KT and Transform. It destroyed my libido (first time in my life) and by the end of it, I was ready to be done. This last time, I ran it for 30 days (20mg ED) stacked with Dermacrine (2-3) pumps ED and the results were amazing and those 30 days were some of the best workouts I have ever had.

Personally, if you are going to use the Osta as a lead in to a cyce I would try and keep it to 6 weeks and no more than 8. 10-11 weeks of Osta and then 4 weeks of cycling is a lot of strain to put on the body. Also, if you are not running a "Base" for that long of an Osta cycle, depending on how you react to the compound, you may be looking for an exit sooner rather than later.

One final thing you can take away from my experience - Osta and Formestane tanked my libido in a few days. There was no placebo affect here as I thought my libido was invinceable. The XI-KT brought it back a small bit when the compound was introduced at day 7.

Good luck cycling.
 

1kerry

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My last two cycles I ran Ostarine as a warm-up and focused on fat loss. I really liked the results and was able to use Osta as a means to help shed bodyfat before the cycles. The first time I ran it for 7 weeks prior, with XI-KT and Transform. It destroyed my libido (first time in my life) and by the end of it, I was ready to be done. This last time, I ran it for 30 days (20mg ED) stacked with Dermacrine (2-3) pumps ED and the results were amazing and those 30 days were some of the best workouts I have ever had.

Personally, if you are going to use the Osta as a lead in to a cyce I would try and keep it to 6 weeks and no more than 8. 10-11 weeks of Osta and then 4 weeks of cycling is a lot of strain to put on the body. Also, if you are not running a "Base" for that long of an Osta cycle, depending on how you react to the compound, you may be looking for an exit sooner rather than later.

One final thing you can take away from my experience - Osta and Formestane tanked my libido in a few days. There was no placebo affect here as I thought my libido was invinceable. The XI-KT brought it back a small bit when the compound was introduced at day 7.

Good luck cycling.
thanks for your advice!

you think 2 pumps dermacrine for the last 3 weeks (8,9,10) of the osta cycle, then 3 pumps during 4 weeks of msten cycle, will help a little? or just focus on my osta cycle and run the MSTEN later, maybe 2 months after finished pct.
 
Jebrook

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My last two cycles I ran Ostarine as a warm-up and focused on fat loss. I really liked the results and was able to use Osta as a means to help shed bodyfat before the cycles. The first time I ran it for 7 weeks prior, with XI-KT and Transform. It destroyed my libido (first time in my life) and by the end of it, I was ready to be done. This last time, I ran it for 30 days (20mg ED) stacked with Dermacrine (2-3) pumps ED and the results were amazing and those 30 days were some of the best workouts I have ever had.

Personally, if you are going to use the Osta as a lead in to a cyce I would try and keep it to 6 weeks and no more than 8. 10-11 weeks of Osta and then 4 weeks of cycling is a lot of strain to put on the body. Also, if you are not running a "Base" for that long of an Osta cycle, depending on how you react to the compound, you may be looking for an exit sooner rather than later.

One final thing you can take away from my experience - Osta and Formestane tanked my libido in a few days. There was no placebo affect here as I thought my libido was invinceable. The XI-KT brought it back a small bit when the compound was introduced at day 7.

Good luck cycling.
thanks for your advice!

you think 2 pumps dermacrine for the last 3 weeks (8,9,10) of the osta cycle, then 3 pumps during 4 weeks of msten cycle, will help a little? or just focus on my osta cycle and run the MSTEN later, maybe 2 months after finished pct.
I think you would get better results and feel better by doing two separate cycles IMO.
 

1kerry

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I think you would get better results and feel better by doing two separate cycles IMO.
thanks for your advice bro! I think , Ill pass on the Msten cycle and continue with my Osta run...
 

1kerry

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My last two cycles I ran Ostarine as a warm-up and focused on fat loss. I really liked the results and was able to use Osta as a means to help shed bodyfat before the cycles. The first time I ran it for 7 weeks prior, with XI-KT and Transform. It destroyed my libido (first time in my life) and by the end of it, I was ready to be done. This last time, I ran it for 30 days (20mg ED) stacked with Dermacrine (2-3) pumps ED and the results were amazing and those 30 days were some of the best workouts I have ever had.

Personally, if you are going to use the Osta as a lead in to a cyce I would try and keep it to 6 weeks and no more than 8. 10-11 weeks of Osta and then 4 weeks of cycling is a lot of strain to put on the body. Also, if you are not running a "Base" for that long of an Osta cycle, depending on how you react to the compound, you may be looking for an exit sooner rather than later.

One final thing you can take away from my experience - Osta and Formestane tanked my libido in a few days. There was no placebo affect here as I thought my libido was invinceable. The XI-KT brought it back a small bit when the compound was introduced at day 7.

Good luck cycling.
btw, If Im currently on a cutting phase, what would you recommend to do after finishing the Osta cycle? During PCT Ill be taking clomind, daa, abe and xgels, should I eat at maintenance , slighlty under maint or slightly above?
 
booneman77

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btw, If Im currently on a cutting phase, what would you recommend to do after finishing the Osta cycle? During PCT Ill be taking clomind, daa, abe and xgels, should I eat at maintenance , slighlty under maint or slightly above?
I would stick with the diet that you're using to cut. You def don't want to lower calories too much more as you could sacrifice the muscle you just used the osta to save ha. If anyhting, I would maybe even bump cals up slightly (or taper up / reverse diet) in pct.
 

1kerry

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I would stick with the diet that you're using to cut. You def don't want to lower calories too much more as you could sacrifice the muscle you just used the osta to save ha. If anyhting, I would maybe even bump cals up slightly (or taper up / reverse diet) in pct.
yes, I was thinking to go 200cals under maint for the first 10 days of my pct, then on maintenance, and increase by 100 each week......

im currently taking 400 cals under maint, before osta I was losing around.7-1 lb per week, right now im on day23 of my osta cycle and have lost only 1.5 lbs aprox and feeling tighter and looking leaner =D
 
goodvibes

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Yes formeron can help sometimes with on cycle lethargy. I haven't tried with Msten yet but it's worth a shot.
There's no way formeron will battle lethargy on Msten cycle, it's not even a test base.

As for OP run epiandro + 4ad high dose with msten. Bridge that cycle dnt do two separate. Waste of pct doing 4 week only cycles. I like your original layout of osta to Msten. I'm on tridermal now and I'm lovin this stacked with 4ad. I finally feel ON again.
 
Toren

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thanks for your advice!

you think 2 pumps dermacrine for the last 3 weeks (8,9,10) of the osta cycle, then 3 pumps during 4 weeks of msten cycle, will help a little? or just focus on my osta cycle and run the MSTEN later, maybe 2 months after finished pct.
I think the Dermacrine would help a lot. If you are set on runnig a full 10 week Osta cycle, it might be best to focus on that and run a 5 week Msten cycle (with a test base) later on when you have fully recovered. At the end of the day though, only you can decide on that. If you feel great and are still making gains, it may be worth it. It's a tough call. Having blood drawn would really be the only way to know for sure if it truly makes sense.

yes, I was thinking to go 200cals under maint for the first 10 days of my pct, then on maintenance, and increase by 100 each week......

im currently taking 400 cals under maint, before osta I was losing around.7-1 lb per week, right now im on day23 of my osta cycle and have lost only 1.5 lbs aprox and feeling tighter and looking leaner =D
IMO your plan is solid. Work your way back up to maintenance and hold steady for a while. If you need to, throw some fasted cardio into the mix if you start losing some of the "dryness". Keep in mind that I don't really count calories. I use the scale and the mirror and adjust as I see fit.

Osta ****ed up my cholesterol up I would run a pct before running the msten
I have always recommended running a cycle support product when running an Ostarine cycle. At the end of the day we really don't have any idea what we are taking from a lot of these supplement companies. If we are indeed taking pure Osta, we are taking it at many times the studied dosage. At the very least I believe people should take a high-grade Omega 3 supplement and some garlic extract with it, to help with Lipid values. There are other things that can be taken as well.
 
Jebrook

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There's no way formeron will battle lethargy on Msten cycle, it's not even a test base.

As for OP run epiandro + 4ad high dose with msten. Bridge that cycle dnt do two separate. Waste of pct doing 4 week only cycles. I like your original layout of osta to Msten. I'm on tridermal now and I'm lovin this stacked with 4ad. I finally feel ON again.

I realize that Formeron is not a test base. But it has helped me with on cycle lethargy several times though did not use with Msten. I get great mood and energy boost with Form. He already has it so it wouldn't hurt to run on cycle with Msten or he could run it in PCT. I disagree with bridging into a long cycle. I've considered long cycles before but I still see great gains off 4-6 weeks so why risk long term damage? We all do what works for us:)
 
Nitro41

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I tried running my msten/epi/tren with no dermacrine.....i made it through the first week ot was ROUGH, but I work a physical job. After that firat week i jumped on 3 pumps a day and really helped the lethargy, i felt great afterwards.


Drop the 40 bucks and get on dermacrine dude, its totally worth it!
 

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Get yourself some dermacrine... You won't regret it. Just came off a cycle of msten at 12mgs daily and adding in dermacrine made a world of difference. Improved energy, mood, fat burning, and overall results
 

1kerry

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Lots of good advice here, thanks a lot guys for your support, Im still on day23 of my Osta run, and have some time to make a final decision , but Im leaning towards focus on this cutting cycle and next year, start again Osta for 6-7 weeks then MSTEN, everything with dermacrine.
 
goodvibes

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I realize that Formeron is not a test base. But it has helped me with on cycle lethargy several times though did not use with Msten. I get great mood and energy boost with Form. He already has it so it wouldn't hurt to run on cycle with Msten or he could run it in PCT. I disagree with bridging into a long cycle. I've considered long cycles before but I still see great gains off 4-6 weeks so why risk long term damage? We all do what works for us:)
Formestane if used when not needed can definitely hurt you. It is a potent AI so if your e2 is already low you can crush those levels further.

And I do agree with everyone about running dermacrine but my advice stands with high dose 4ad. Or better yet, stack the two.
 

1kerry

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Formestane if used when not needed can definitely hurt you. It is a potent AI so if your e2 is already low you can crush those levels further.

And I do agree with everyone about running dermacrine but my advice stands with high dose 4ad. Or better yet, stack the two.
So you dont recommend to use forma lets say for the last 3 weeks of my 10 week osta cycle if dont have any gyno signs? Im asking because I really like the anabolic boost it gives, plus the dry effect
 

1kerry

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I realize that Formeron is not a test base. But it has helped me with on cycle lethargy several times though did not use with Msten. I get great mood and energy boost with Form. He already has it so it wouldn't hurt to run on cycle with Msten or he could run it in PCT. I disagree with bridging into a long cycle. I've considered long cycles before but I still see great gains off 4-6 weeks so why risk long term damage? We all do what works for us:)
hey buddy, currently Im not taking any support supps during my osta cycle, if I decide to add formeron for the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle even though no gyno signs, should i add any support supps?

thanks!
 
Jebrook

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hey buddy, currently Im not taking any support supps during my osta cycle, if I decide to add formeron for the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle even though no gyno signs, should i add any support supps?

thanks!
Unless dosing really high I don't think anything additional would be necessary.
 
goodvibes

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So you dont recommend to use forma lets say for the last 3 weeks of my 10 week osta cycle if dont have any gyno signs? Im asking because I really like the anabolic boost it gives, plus the dry effect
You can if you really want but low dose it and just dial it down if it's too much.
 

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