Natural Powerlifter (Starting First Cycle within the Week)

[NattyLite]

Hello,

As the title reads I am a natural power lifter and I'm looking to add some size and strength with a cycle that I'd like to start in the coming week. I have a regiment that I'd like to possibly follow but I'd like to see what ya'll think first. I'm wanting to run Test E and Deca. I know Deca isn't something you typically should mess with on a first cycle, and I know that running test alone is generally the route many people take to test the bodies limit. My identical twin has ran Deca and Test E without any complications. I realize that this may not be the case for me, but it gives me enough confidence to go through with my projected choices.

I have lifted since I was 15 years old, now 21. Current PR's are 410 on the bench, 585 Squat, 650 Deadlift all at 209 (all LBS) Bodyweight, and all lifts were performed unenhanced. So I do have the experience and discipline to be successful. I'm really looking to have some serious mentoring so I can do this stuff correctly. Guidance is appreciated, this ranges from the cycle itself to my PCT and etc.

Thanks, hope to hear from vets soon!

 

[Driven2lift]

You're 21

Think hard on this. You seem determined but this is young for AAS.

In a relationship?
Want kids in the future?

 

[NattyLite]

I have considered that, I'm not currently in a relationship but will be in weeks to come if things go the way I expect them to. I have zero problems with rage/anger. I handle myself well, and really like to think I'm a pretty humble person.

In terms of children in the future, maybe some day I'd like kids, but honestly I'm not sure I'd want to bring them up in today's world/society. If I was unable to have kids I don't think it would greatly affect me, I'd possibly like to have them some day but if I was unable that'd be fine. I'm only looking to do at most 2 12 week cycles a year nothing crazy. Another thing to note my grandfather and his wife we're able to conceive at 50 and 43 respectively. My father who is 43 currently, has above average test for his age.

I don't want to screw myself up, but I want to push a bit further and see what my body can do. I think I'm at my natural peak, I'm not sure I can achieve much more.

 

[booneman77]

You're 21

Think hard on this. You seem determined but this is young for AAS.

In a relationship?
Want kids in the future?

Have ancillaries on hand?

Understand the potential sides and how to deal with them?

Have pct on hand?

 

[NattyLite]

I have everything on hand, and in abundant supply. I'm a rookie, I know of the sides, I've put in a lot of time for research. However, I don't feel that I'm equipped to handle them properly. I've done my research, but there's so many varying opinions of how to handle this and that. I guess a mentor would help in regard to that.

 

[ComputerNerd]

I got put my 2 cents in here. Bro, you are blessed with good genes. You sound like you have naturally high test lvls and you have trained hard to get to where you are. You don't want to screw that up.
My thoughts are this:
1. Don't do a cycle at your age. - a cycle can and will mess you up and will hurt your gains you have worked hard for naturally.

When you do a cycle, your estrogen and natural test is going to get all jacked up. It "might" be controllable while on cycle, but it will be a real pain when you come off. It doesn't matter how many drugs you have on hand or how much advice you get from a forum. Unless you go get blood checked every week post cycle and get a tailored plan by a doctor, then your really just guessing when ingesting all the different drugs and supps during pct.

Keep this in mind if you do this cycle: You very well could never return to the same natty test levels you are at now. I'd hate to see that happen at your age.

 

[NattyLite]

I got put my 2 cents in here. Bro, you are blessed with good genes. You sound like you have naturally high test lvls and you have trained hard to get to where you are. You don't want to screw that up.
My thoughts are this:
1. Don't do a cycle at your age. - a cycle can and will mess you up and will hurt your gains you have worked hard for naturally.

When you do a cycle, your estrogen and natural test is going to get all jacked up. It "might" be controllable while on cycle, but it will be a real pain when you come off. It doesn't matter how many drugs you have on hand or how much advice you get from a forum. Unless you go get blood checked every week post cycle and get a tailored plan by a doctor, then your really just guessing when ingesting all the different drugs and supps during pct.

Keep this in mind if you do this cycle: You very well could never return to the same natty test levels you are at now. I'd hate to see that happen at your age.

Your reply is very insightful, my biggest thing is I don't feel I can achieve much more without some sort of "help". I'm pretty set on doing this but if you were recommending a time to do a cycle, when would it be?

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Edited:triple post...haha

 

[SquatsAndOats]

You're ****ing strong for you age and BW. I know enhanced ppwerlifters who don't lift as much as you, and some have numerous cycles. You need to look at the pros and cons. I don't know why people are bringing up kids. If you do get hypogomadism, you'll most likely be put on TRT and hcg or clomid when you want kids to raise your sperm count. Hell there's tons of IFBBs who have kids and all those guys blast and cruise. The side effects you need to be worried about are blood pressure and heart, gyno/high estrogen, balding if you're prone, infections from bad pins/dirty gear and acne. Only one of those (balding) is really out of your hands if you're prone to it. All,others can be mediated by using good gear, practicing hygienic pinning techniques and using an AI to keep estrogen in range, not too high or low. The effects on the heart can be detrimental over the long term, but from the studies I've read androgen have a similar effect as someone who works out which I believe is left ventricle hypertrophy (somebody correct me if I'm mistaken on this) so controlling your blood pressure is key, along with liver support supplements if you're running methyls.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Edited: double post

 

[NattyLite]

You're ****ing strong for you age and BW. I know enhanced ppwerlifters who don't lift as much as you, and some have numerous cycles. You need to look at the pros and cons. I don't know why people are bringing up kids. If you do get hypogomadism, you'll most likely be put on TRT and hcg or clomid when you want kids to raise your sperm count. Hell there's tons of IFBBs who have kids and all those guys blast and cruise. The side effects you need to be worried about are blood pressure and heart, gyno, balding if you're prone, infections from bad pins/dirty gear and acne. Only one of those (balding) is really out of your hands if you're prone to it.

Thanks brother, I've put in a whole lot of time to get to where I am, I'm definitely blessed with some good genes ill give credit where it is due. I don't plan to "blast and cruise" or anything like that. I guess I'm just wanting to test the waters, hopefully make some good gains that I can retain while maintaining healthy levels.

 

[ComputerNerd]

That's a really good question. If and when you do this cycle the most important thing will be, "how can I get back to normal after its over?"
Hormones are a weird thing. Everyone responds differently.

Test levels don't start declining until you get a bit older. My advice is, if you think you have hit your peak, the question is "why?".
Are you under any stress right now, any lifestyle changes, diet chsnges, sleep chsnges, list could go on.
You have had excellent results being natty. Go get your test/e and blood levels checked at the doctor. Then you should discuss it more if you still want to do this.
Without ever running a cycle before, you just don't know what's going to happen when you do. It's like lighting a match, holding it out, turning your head away and just hoping it burns out before you get burnt.

 

[ComputerNerd]

What mg/week were you thinking about running test e and deca?

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Thanks brother, I've put in a whole lot of time to get to where I am, I'm definitely blessed with some good genes ill give credit where it is due. I don't plan to "blast and cruise" or anything like that. I guess I'm just wanting to test the waters, hopefully make some good gains that I can retain while maintaining healthy levels.

No problem. Read my edited post there's some more concise info. I don't want to get in a pissing match with anyone but it's debatable wether your levels won't return to normal or whatever. From my understanding is your endocrine system matures after puberty but others seem to say it still matures till almost 26, so if you cycle youre stunting it's growth (debateble). Your test levels will probably return to normal, but probably won't get any higher. Thays why it's important to get blood work before you start and a 8 weeks or so after pct.
I personally think most people don't recover properly because they get bunk AI or PCT med and then go to a doc and end up on TRT. Another thing to note is that people will cycle on and off for years from 25-35 and then complain that their test levels aren't where they once were, which is silly to think you'll have the same testosterone levels at 25 a decade later.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

That's a really good question. If and when you do this cycle the most important thing will be, "how can I get back to normal after its over?"
Hormones are a weird thing. Everyone responds differently.

Test levels don't start declining until you get a bit older. My advice is, if you think you have hit your peak, the question is "why?".
Are you under any stress right now, any lifestyle changes, diet chsnges, sleep chsnges, list could go on.
You have had excellent results being natty. Go get your test/e and blood levels checked at the doctor. Then you should discuss it more if you still want to do this.
Without ever running a cycle before, you just don't know what's going to happen when you do. It's like lighting a match, holding it out, turning your head away and just hoping it burns out before you get burnt.

This. You should get bloods before you start anyways. Except I wouldn't go to a doctor. I would get bloods from either privatemdlabs or labsmd. In most states it's legal for you to be able to get your own blood work and a female hormone panel is $50. It tests your total test, estrogen, LH,FSH liver values and glucose too along with some others

 

[NattyLite]

Test E at 500MG / Wk
Deca at 400 MG / Wk

That was the plan anyways. I based it around stuff that I've read and have changed it multiple times. And in terms of plateau I've just been stuck for a good bit, right at a year, without sufficient gains 5 lbs here and there. But I recently went through a pretty rough break up pretty getting some cortisol. I'm mainly just wanting to test the waters, I mean this could be the only cycle I ever do, or it could lead on to no more than 2 a year. A Bulking and cutting cycle respectively. I don't have plans of becoming the next Dan Greene or the next Ronnie Coleman. Just wanting to test the waters.

 

[ComputerNerd]

The effects on the heart can be detrimental over the long term, but from the studies I've read androgen have a similar effect as someone who works out which I believe is left ventricle hypertrophy (somebody correct me if I'm mistaken on this) so controlling your blood pressure is key, along with liver support supplements if you're running methyls.

What SquatsandOats sais is true and High BP is a major concern. If not while on cycle or after, you could have issues later on down the road.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Test E at 500MG / Wk
Deca at 400 MG / Wk

That was the plan anyways. I based it around stuff that I've read and have changed it multiple times. And in terms of plateau I've just been stuck for a good bit, right at a year, without sufficient gains 5 lbs here and there. But I recently went through a pretty rough break up pretty getting some cortisol. I'm mainly just wanting to test the waters, I mean this could be the only cycle I ever do, or it could lead on to no more than 2 a year. A Bulking and cutting cycle respectively. I don't have plans of becoming the next Dan Greene or the next Ronnie Coleman. Just wanting to test the waters.

Do you have any dopamine agonists on hand to lower prolactin? Unless this cycle leads to some serious gyno or health issues I guarantee it won't be the last one you do

 

[NattyLite]

Do you have any dopamine agonists on hand to lower prolactin? Unless this cycle leads to some serious gyno or health issues I guarantee it won't be the last one you do

No I don't have any. I haven't ever had issues like that before, is there a fair risk for this to occur?

 

[NattyLite]

Well obviously I'm going to experience increased levels, but to what degree is the chance they're out of hand? Should I lower my dose if I go through with everything?

 

[ComputerNerd]

Test E at 500MG / Wk
Deca at 400 MG / Wk

.

Run the T at 500mg and add on the Deca "If you need it" (if you experience joint issues). I doubt that you will at 500mg/week. Save Deca for your second cycle after you see how your body responds to the T. More is not better.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

No I don't have any. I haven't ever had issues like that before, is there a fair risk for this to occur?

Deca can raise prolactin levels, which can lead to gyno and other problems. You need a dopamine agonist like Pramipraxole or caborline (I know I'm butchering the spelling). Because dopamine and prolactin are related, sort of. Dopamine controls the release of prolactin at the anterior pituitary. So if deca stimulate prolactin production you need a dopamine agonist to stunt it's release so to speak. Google dopamine prolactin relationship for more info. I can't post links but there's a nbci article on it

 

[NattyLite]

Wha do you think I can expect to gain on the test E alone? I've always read you're wasting time if you don't run win/car/deca etc with the test?

 

[ComputerNerd]

Well obviously I'm going to experience increased levels, but to what degree is the chance they're out of hand? Should I lower my dose if I go through with everything?

I read a study that was done about running test cyp/e. I will see if I can find it. Test cyp/e is pretty safe, assuming it's human grade quality stuff. You could run test as high as 600mg/week for more than 20 weeks and probably not have any "issues". Studies show this to be true.

How jacked up can or will your levels become? No one knows. But... if your estrogen gets above or > 60...you could start to see issues(sexual dysfunction, and other sides). If it gets too low <18, your going to see sexual dysfunction and a complete different set of sides. This is where finding out how much AI you PERSONALLY need to maintain the right levels. It's not a one size fits all. Pop to much of an AI, you're going to have issues you don't want. Trust me, been there to both extremes. They both suck. They are correctable but not instantly.

I didn't even think about getting blood work done by a private lab. That's a really great idea. I guess I should be doing that. If you have the money...I'd get it checked as often as I could so you can see what's going on.

 

[mixedup]

What r u goals? Are you competing?

With you naturally good genetics I see no reason to cycle at this point
As said it could happen that you never get back to pre cycle test levels and you'll be forced to cycle to maintain.

If your competing are you tested? Deca has a very long detection time.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Wha do you think I can expect to gain on the test E alone? I've always read you're wasting time if you don't run win/car/deca etc with the test?

In LBM? 10-15lbs. In weight? 20-30 the rest being from water glycogen and fat. The only thing with test E is it takes a long time to kick in so you don't feel anything till 3-4 weeks. Thats why oral Kickstart are so common. You could do some test prop at the beginning, but then you're pinning quite frequently. If you're a powrlifter I don't think you'd want to gain too much and risk a weight class, but some of that is diet as well. Also I just noticed this hasn't been brought up: deca takes a long time to clear your system, so it needs to be stopped before test E so it can habe time to clear before pct. Because of its long Ester it also needs to be run longer, 16 weeks,or so. Pinning gets tiring after some time too. Just food for thought. I would just do test E and an oral if I were you. Tbol is a good oral for strength but won't pack on size if you need to stay in a class. It's expensive though. Almost as much as var

 

[NattyLite]

What r u goals? Are you competing?

With you naturally good genetics I see no reason to cycle at this point
As said it could happen that you never get back to pre cycle test levels and you'll be forced to cycle to maintain.

If your competing are you tested? Deca has a very long detection time.

I'm going to be competing around October/November I'd like to be able to perform in the natural division but if it was questionable I wouldn't mind stepping up. I haven't researched TBol a whole lot honestly but I'll look into it or if you guys have advice.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Test E at 500MG / Wk
Deca at 400 MG / Wk

That was the plan anyways. I based it around stuff that I've read and have changed it multiple times. And in terms of plateau I've just been stuck for a good bit, right at a year, without sufficient gains 5 lbs here and there. But I recently went through a pretty rough break up pretty getting some cortisol. I'm mainly just wanting to test the waters, I mean this could be the only cycle I ever do, or it could lead on to no more than 2 a year. A Bulking and cutting cycle respectively. I don't have plans of becoming the next Dan Greene or the next Ronnie Coleman. Just wanting to test the waters.

This. You should get bloods before you start anyways. Except I wouldn't go to a doctor. I would get bloods from either privatemdlabs or labsmd. In most states it's legal for you to be able to get your own blood work and a female hormone panel is $50. It tests your total test, estrogen, LH,FSH liver values and glucose too along with some others

Well obviously I'm going to experience increased levels, but to what degree is the chance they're out of hand? Should I lower my dose if I go through with everything?

Well that varies from person to person. I hate Research Chem sites but I've never gotten fake prami from one. The sides of prami are noticeable and it's cheap. My friend can run test tren dbol and not have any problems. I need 12.5mg aromasin ED to keep estrogen in check on just test and a moderate dose of prolactin on the prohormone trendione which doesn't convert thay much to tren. Idk how active it is on its own, and if it can contribute to prolactin sides without being converted. My point is everyone is different.

 

[mixedup]

I'm going to be competing around October/November I'd like to be able to perform in the natural division but if it was questionable I wouldn't mind stepping up. I haven't researched TBol a whole lot honestly but I'll look into it or if you guys have advice.

My advice is weight to your comp compete naturally and then if unhappy with results you can decide. If you'd like to compete naturally no use in Oct that's only 4 months. You can always decide to go the anabolic route after

 

[SquatsAndOats]

**** just compete in USPA. It's untested and even naturally at your age group you're be breaking records.

 

[herderdude]

Test E at 500MG / Wk
Deca at 400 MG / Wk

That was the plan anyways. I based it around stuff that I've read and have changed it multiple times. And in terms of plateau I've just been stuck for a good bit, right at a year, without sufficient gains 5 lbs here and there. But I recently went through a pretty rough break up pretty getting some cortisol. I'm mainly just wanting to test the waters, I mean this could be the only cycle I ever do, or it could lead on to no more than 2 a year. A Bulking and cutting cycle respectively. I don't have plans of becoming the next Dan Greene or the next Ronnie Coleman. Just wanting to test the waters.

Hey man, your numbers are big as all hell. When you get to where you're at, 5lbs here and there is how it goes. I'd urge you to try and hold off a little while longer just because of your age alone, but it's all up to you.

Just because I'm a powerlifter and I like to follow strong folks, what's your weight class? Do any meets lately?

 

[NattyLite]

Hey man, your numbers are big as all hell. When you get to where you're at, 5lbs here and there is how it goes. I'd urge you to try and hold off a little while longer just because of your age alone, but it's all up to you.

Just because I'm a powerlifter and I like to follow strong folks, what's your weight class? Do any meets lately?

My meets in Oct/Nov will be my first competitions. And I'm actually not turning 21 until October. Just 20 YO currently.

 

[NattyLite]

I'm considering a Test E only cycle at 600MG / Wk. Need a little help with how I should do my PCT.

 

[hewhoisripped]

Op, some suggestions:
Get blood work to see your current levels
Try a SARM and/or peptides

 

[livestrong82]

Run test higher than deca if u run both together

And since its your first run dont go over 500mg test a week just because you don't know how u will react to it..

1-14 weeks Test e 500mg total weekly, pin 2x week
1-12 weeks Deca 300-400mg total weekly, pin 2x a week

Have adex for estrogen control
Have caber for prolactin control. (I ran deca before with inhibit p for prolactin control but had to keep it at more capsules than recomended to control)

Start pct 2 weeks after your last test shot
Pct
Nolva 40/40/20/10
Clomid 50/50/25/10
Viron test booster
XT
And have a a.I on hand during pct just incase.

Goodluck and get all your ducks in a row before starting

 

[NattyLite]

Run test higher than deca if u run both together

And since its your first run dont go over 500mg test a week just because you don't know how u will react to it..

1-14 weeks Test e 500mg total weekly, pin 2x week
1-12 weeks Deca 300-400mg total weekly, pin 2x a week

Have adex for estrogen control
Have caber for prolactin control. (I ran deca before with inhibit p for prolactin control but had to keep it at more capsules than recomended to control)

Start pct 2 weeks after your last test shot
Pct
Nolva 40/40/20/10
Clomid 50/50/25/10
Viron test booster
XT
And have a a.I on hand during pct just incase.

Goodluck and get all your ducks in a row before starting

Thanks brother, this was a great outline!