Msten/Tren CYCLE LOG!

[jason267]

The time has come. Keep in mind, i just finished a Pmag cycle...did a week of Clomid, got bloods done, and recovered amazingly well...makes me question the Pmag. Gains were good, 10lbs. So...rolling the dice, sayin F it, and starting this up...Took a jump start dose tonight...

Msten (20/20/20/30)
Tren (60/60/60/60)
4Andro (150mgs)
Stano (600mgs)

Supports
CEL Cycle Assist
Achilles Tendon
TUDCA (750mgs)
Inhibit P
NAC (650mgs)
Fish Oil
Forma Stanzol

PCT
Clomid (50/50/25/25)
Nolva (20/20/10/10)
Rev Black PCT (Arimastane 50mgs) -first two weeks
Erase (Arimastane 25mgs) -final two weeks
DAA
Reduce XT
P5P

^Lots of pills, thats for sure. But If im going to do it, i want to do it as smart as possible (even with the mistake i made in between)!!!
Goals are to add on another 5-10lbs and keep as lean as possible. Hoping this cycle will help me keep the gains made from the Pmag. Looking to increase strength and endurance, as always. Low carb, HIGH protein, you know the drill. Also have Inhibit E and Erase, if needed.
Main thing im going to be writing about are any sides that come about, since some of these compounds are new to me (4 Andro, 1 Andro, and the AI). Plus this stack is competly new for me, really hoping the 1 Andro and Stano help with lethargy. Even though they are low dosed....
Keep in mind, im using what i got on hand. Doing the best cycle that i have on hand.
START: 5'9" 185lbs

 

[jason267]

Just did a recount, and also realized my math skills are far from sharp...
going to be able to run the Tren higher, was @ 60mgs thru out.
NOW will be 60/60/90/90
*Never ran Tren at 90 before, hope its a sweet spot. Tren sides are terrible on me, even at low dose, mostly just night sweats...but anyone who cycles knows that sleep can be hard to come by...and if you add waking up with your sheets soaked in a cold sweat...its terrible. And the wife kicks me to the floor. The things we do, eh?!

 

[Godstrength]

Subbed

 

[Dma378]

The things we do indeed. Subbed

 

[yates84]

Subbed. When I'm on tren my girl has the night sweats! Just sayin'

 

[MrVascular]

Would you like some blood with those chemicals? Lol this will be a hell of a ride...IN

 

[808shredded]

I'm in

 

[booneman77]

Gawd dayum. This is crazy! But fun ha

 

[jason267]

A little crazy...but consider this stack vs a fairly common one...even a one that kids start out with for their fist cycle....
SUPER DMZ 3.0!

^with that in mind...seems pretty tame compared to Msten/Alpha/DMZ combo!
...maybe not though!

some revisions. My apologies for the lack of updates, my PC decided to stop working completely. Had to order and install and new power supply. All good as of today!
I took out the low dosed 1 Andro. Not needed, and as many pointed out, just another couple pills my liver doesn't have to break down.

So...for a quick update: Today is day 4
up 3lbs, to 188lbs (most likely glyco/water)...but ive never had my bis/tris feeling this solid so early on during a cycle. Constant pump during the first week???
The major thing ive already noticed is the strength increase, now, i think this is due to how i have ran a Pmag cycle co close to the start up of this current cycle...with only a week break in between...some of it must either still be in my system, or the effects are still kickin strong!!! Feels great.
Also, this week i have kept carbs to a minimum, and mostly eat tons of protein and maintenance cal...but ive never had such a fast response to how i look. By abs are already showing through (which was something that the Pmag run did away with!). And my upper body and calves look more defined.
^Now, this is all only after 4 days. I have always been a quick responder to most PH's...but i attribute this responsive because of how this is basically a "8 Week Cycle"

*Lethargy in non existent...which is a surprise, i felt horrible within the first week of the Pmag run.
*Hoping everything is fully kicked in during the early week 2 mark!
*I have been taking Erase @ 1 cap a night, and nothing else for estrogen. So far so good...but will adjust further down the line.
^also, is arimistane (Erase) good for lowering cortisol while on cycle? Helping to keep fat down/leaner, etc?

 

[booneman77]

Arimistane iirc has very mild cort control effects, if any. As far as fat loss same story... Not really. It's pretty much only useful for hardening and mild estro control.

 

[jason267]

^Thanks booneman77

I have half a bottle of some old CEL Hdrol...so only 30 caps (25mgs each)
They would pretty much end up going to waste...when i got a idea...might be a bad one, or might be slightly beneficial...?
Add in one Hdrol cap with my AM doses.

Methyl PHs
Msten 20mgs
Hdrol 25mgs
*Tren (non methyl...but still strong stuff, even at my low dosage)

Non Methyls
4Andro 150mgs
Stano 600mgs

I respond VERY well to Hdrol (even @ 50mgs for 4 weeks), but have no clue if only 25mgs per day would do much?
IF, people dont think this will have a NEGATIVE effect on this stack...then my thinking, is "Why not?" See what happens.

Again, keep in mind that Super DMZ 3.0 is a very popular stack (though one i would never run)...so considering in adding in a very low dose of Hdrol...???
Thoughts welcome!!!

 

[Dma378]

Adding another compound for zero gains, my vote is against.

 

[drogan]

While you might not see much as far as size or strength on 25mg of hdrol, I have always felt that even low doses has a great endurance effect. I'm a track athlete and I like to run 50mg a day for eight to ten weeks in the off season and my cardio and muscular endurance sky rockets, but I have no experience with less than 50mg. Also a side effect of teen is lessened cardio endurance, so maybe it'll help off set that?

 

[bighulksmash]

The time has come. Keep in mind, i just finished a Pmag cycle...did a week of Clomid, got bloods done, and recovered amazingly well...makes me question the Pmag. Gains were good, 10lbs. So...rolling the dice, sayin F it, and starting this up...Took a jump start dose tonight...

Msten (20/20/20/30)
Tren (60/60/60/60)
4Andro (150mgs)
Stano (600mgs)

Supports
CEL Cycle Assist
Achilles Tendon
TUDCA (750mgs)
Inhibit P
NAC (650mgs)
Fish Oil
Forma Stanzol

PCT
Clomid (50/50/25/25)
Nolva (20/20/10/10)
Rev Black PCT (Arimastane 50mgs) -first two weeks
Erase (Arimastane 25mgs) -final two weeks
DAA
Reduce XT
P5P

^Lots of pills, thats for sure. But If im going to do it, i want to do it as smart as possible (even with the mistake i made in between)!!!
Goals are to add on another 5-10lbs and keep as lean as possible. Hoping this cycle will help me keep the gains made from the Pmag. Looking to increase strength and endurance, as always. Low carb, HIGH protein, you know the drill. Also have Inhibit E and Erase, if needed.
Main thing im going to be writing about are any sides that come about, since some of these compounds are new to me (4 Andro, 1 Andro, and the AI). Plus this stack is competly new for me, really hoping the 1 Andro and Stano help with lethargy. Even though they are low dosed....
Keep in mind, im using what i got on hand. Doing the best cycle that i have on hand.

Thats overkill pct

 

[jason267]

While you might not see much as far as size or strength on 25mg of hdrol, I have always felt that even low doses has a great endurance effect. I'm a track athlete and I like to run 50mg a day for eight to ten weeks in the off season and my cardio and muscular endurance sky rockets, but I have no experience with less than 50mg. Also a side effect of teen is lessened cardio endurance, so maybe it'll help off set that?

^do you mean a side effect of Tren is low cardio endurance?

My only thoughts about adding in the Hdrol is how well i respond to it, AND, that the bottle will end up going to waste if not used now. Only 30 caps. Plus, its CEL version...ive found their stuff to be a bit stronger than most, if not all, replicas

 

[jason267]

Thats overkill pct

How?
*Ive ran both Clomid and Nolva together in the past after a heavy cycle, and made PCT actually a great experience...the gains kept coming! Got my bloodwork as always two weeks after PCT and all was well. No adverse sides from running the two.
*And running Arimastane during PCT is very common place, estrogen rebound and all.
*DAA, again, great natty Test booster.
*Reduce XT for cortisol control as it is high in PCT...

SO>>>what about it is overkill? After a stack that im running???

 

[bighulksmash]

How?
*Ive ran both Clomid and Nolva together in the past after a heavy cycle, and made PCT actually a great experience...the gains kept coming! Got my bloodwork as always two weeks after PCT and all was well. No adverse sides from running the two.
*And running Arimastane during PCT is very common place, estrogen rebound and all.
*DAA, again, great natty Test booster.
*Reduce XT for cortisol control as it is high in PCT...

SO>>>what about it is overkill? After a stack that im running???

Wats ur dose plan for clomid nolva? Some run one high one low some run clomid and armidex. Just sayin you usually dont need both most pros will say its a waste of money unless ur gyno prone

 

[jason267]

Wats ur dose plan for clomid nolva? Some run one high one low some run clomid and armidex. Just sayin you usually dont need both most pros will say its a waste of money unless ur gyno prone

To each his own...ive already given you reason for it, and how safe it is. As well as how it makes PCT, which is usually a terrible 4 weeks, a breeze and enjoyable.
I plan on running it either:
C 50/50/25/25
N 20/10/10/10
OR BOTH AT NORMAL DOSE

Also...many, if not all, "Pros" run insanely crazy PCTs....but...you might want to reconsider your statement about "most pros will say its a waste of money unless ur gyno prone." Reason being, is MOST if not all "PROS", Blast and cruise on TEST!

 

[bighulksmash]

To each his own...ive already given you reason for it, and how safe it is. As well as how it makes PCT, which is usually a terrible 4 weeks, a breeze and enjoyable.
I plan on running it either:
C 50/50/25/25
N 20/10/10/10
OR BOTH AT NORMAL DOSE

Also...many, if not all, "Pros" run insanely crazy PCTs....but...you might want to reconsider your statement about "most pros will say its a waste of money unless ur gyno prone." Reason being, is MOST if not all "PROS", Blast and cruise on TEST!

Yes i kno these things . IMO from the people ive been involved with idk we just keep it simple either way enjoy the ride man will u be posting logs ?

 

[jason267]

Yes i kno these things . IMO from the people ive been involved with idk we just keep it simple either way enjoy the ride man will u be posting logs ?

This is the log. Im keeping the entries basic. Mostly just side effects and gains/physique/strength.
(btw, i usually keep my cycles VERY simple. Consisting of one PH, Cycle Assist, and Clomid....this is a experiment

 

[bighulksmash]

It would b sweet if we did a meet once a year where we all went to a conventional.

 

[booneman77]

Wats ur dose plan for clomid nolva? Some run one high one low some run clomid and armidex. Just sayin you usually dont need both most pros will say its a waste of money unless ur gyno prone

What do serms have to do with being gyno prone??? His pct looks fine to me. Standard 4 weeks at normal doses... Just running two vs one which is also not uncommon.

 

[booneman77]

It would b sweet if we did a meet once a year where we all went to a conventional.

Last couple yrs quite a few guys have met up at things like the Arnold or the o. Some at pl meets as well if they're geographically close.

 

[booneman77]

jason267 you gonna put up pics for start/end or any during?

 

[bighulksmash]

What do serms have to do with being gyno prone??? His pct looks fine to me. Standard 4 weeks at normal doses... Just running two vs one which is also not uncommon.

Boone ur right its just my opinion. Its a solid pct i agree . Just curious why he was running the nolva and clomid together . I see it alot . IMO its a great pct . Part of me learning it to ask why whenever i can .

 

[jason267]

Boone ur right its just my opinion. Its a solid pct i agree . Just curious why he was running the nolva and clomid together . I see it alot . IMO its a great pct . Part of me learning it to ask why whenever i can .

Clomid is best known for HPTA
Nolva for gyno prevention
=Best of both worlds

Bottom line, like i mentioned, i have ran both together in the past, and it was the BEST pct one could ever ask for. As most know, PCT sucks...depression, no appetite, lack of motivation, etc, etc, etc. But for me, it felt as if i was still on cycle. I not only kept the gains (this was from a DMZ run), but still added on 3lbs, and the strength kept going higher and higher....not bad.

 

[jason267]

jason267 you gonna put up pics for start/end or any during?

Doubtful. Im covered with tattoos. Easily would give away my identity. Might try to find a way to photoshop em out...still wouldnt look right though.
Starting weight is 185lbs @ 5'9". 12.8%bf (just gained 10lbs from the Pmag run, though). Hoping to add on a solid 5-7lbs and keep the bf at 11.5-12%.

 

[bighulksmash]

Clomid is best known for HPTA
Nolva for gyno prevention
=Best of both worlds

Bottom line, like i mentioned, i have ran both together in the past, and it was the BEST pct one could ever ask for. As most know, PCT sucks...depression, no appetite, lack of motivation, etc, etc, etc. But for me, it felt as if i was still on cycle. I not only kept the gains (this was from a DMZ run), but still added on 3lbs, and the strength kept going higher and higher....not bad.

Its a great idea pc how do adjust your carbs and proteins?

 

[jason267]

Its a great idea pc how do adjust your carbs and proteins?

for a cut? For recomp? what do you mean exactly?

 

[bighulksmash]

for a cut? For recomp? what do you mean exactly
if i feel i gained a little too much fat ill drop carbs raise protien since your bf is 12 ur fine. Are you cutting now ? What's the goals for your cycle ?

 

[jason267]

For now, i dont count carbs...never have.
But i keep them to a minimum. 2 slices a bread per day (gotta have my chicken breast sandwich!). No oatmeal. But a baked potato along with whatever else for dinner is key!

Protein, is all whole foods. I hardly ever use any shakes...they dont stick. Chicken Breasts, Tuna, etc...all smothered with Franks Buffalo Hot Sauce!
I try to aim for 250g per day.

As for now, im keeping calories at 2200-2500.

Nothing special to my diet. Sometimes, i will eat whatever the hell i want, and just do extra cardio. And my body just evens out. Sometimes i eat heavy for a day, then only protein the next, repeat.
I was naturally a skinny f*ck, until i hit 30!!! It was all downhill from there, haha!
Since then, high protein, lots of veggies, and hot sauce on everything. No beer.

 

[jason267]

for a cut? For recomp? what do you mean exactly
if i feel i gained a little too much fat ill drop carbs raise protien since your bf is 12 ur fine. Are you cutting now ? What's the goals for your cycle ?

Read up ahead on this 'Log'
"Goals are to add on another 5-10lbs and keep as lean as possible. Hoping this cycle will help me keep the gains made from the Pmag. Looking to increase strength and endurance, as always. Low carb, HIGH protein, you know the drill."

Target weight when all is said and done will be 190lbs (estimate)

Wherever hard work, good food, and the Msten takes me...that will be where i will be.

 

[bighulksmash]

For now, i dont count carbs...never have.
But i keep them to a minimum. 2 slices a bread per day (gotta have my chicken breast sandwich!). No oatmeal. But a baked potato along with whatever else for dinner is key!

Protein, is all whole foods. I hardly ever use any shakes...they dont stick. Chicken Breasts, Tuna, etc...all smothered with Franks Buffalo Hot Sauce!
I try to aim for 250g per day.

As for now, im keeping calories at 2200-2500.

Nothing special to my diet. Sometimes, i will eat whatever the hell i want, and just do extra cardio. And my body just evens out. Sometimes i eat heavy for a day, then only protein the next, repeat.
I was naturally a skinny f*ck, until i hit 30!!! It was all downhill from there, haha!
Since then, high protein, lots of veggies, and hot sauce on everything. No beer.

That's awesome tho . Ur protein sources are good . I got the chicken breast on sale bogo . Maybe 8 lbs total i like mine in wheat wraps with Chipotle bbq sauce and some spinach leaves . Tomorrow is gonna b all 90% rep max lifts if i dont hurt after that iam gonna have to toss in some cross fit haha

 

[jason267]

That's awesome tho . Ur protein sources are good . I got the chicken breast on sale bogo . Maybe 8 lbs total i like mine in wheat wraps with Chipotle bbq sauce and some spinach leaves . Tomorrow is gonna b all 90% rep max lifts if i dont hurt after that iam gonna have to toss in some cross fit haha

are you running anything right now? Or natty?

 

[jason267]

might sound gross...but get 2 huge cans of albacore Tuna, throw it in a bowl, add in some hot sauce (Franks or any Buffalo style), and some pickles....BAM. Protein!

 

[bighulksmash]

Alpha 1 max 5th week
40 40 40 40 60 60 60 40
Gained 20 lbs so far lifts have gone up between 40 and 60 lbs each one after week 4 ive felt no pains like u usually get from buring out i had labs today i hope to post tomorrow my levels. I know my ldl is a lil hi bp was 145 over 80 heart steady over 100 resting its never below 80 bpm . week 5 thru 8 ill b upping the cardio to 1 hr a day and protein to 400g a day cals been at 3200 ill b dropping to 2800 the a1m is def the best ds ive tried by far.

 

[bighulksmash]

might sound gross...but get 2 huge cans of albacore Tuna, throw it in a bowl, add in some hot sauce (Franks or any Buffalo style), and some pickles....BAM. Protein!

Tuna pickles and hotsauce sounds great ive got 15oz chicken in the pan iam about to kill it a1m will keep u awake at night i can hear people walking way down the street here is some lulz i feel like batman .

 

[jason267]

Alpha 1 max 5th week
40 40 40 40 60 60 60 40
Gained 20 lbs so far lifts have gone up between 40 and 60 lbs each one after week 4 ive felt no pains like u usually get from buring out i had labs today i hope to post tomorrow my levels. I know my ldl is a lil hi bp was 145 over 80 heart steady over 100 resting its never below 80 bpm . week 5 thru 8 ill b upping the cardio to 1 hr a day and protein to 400g a day cals been at 3200 ill b dropping to 2800 the a1m is def the best ds ive tried by far.

I have a bottle of A1 ive been saving...might add it with a bottle of Pmag around winter time for dirty bulk...not sure.
Good to hear its treating you well. And ya, PH/DS are terrible for sleeping. Even with 10mg Meletonin, 1mg Clonazepam, i still wake up after sleeping for only 2-3hrs. Do whatever you can to sleep man...REM sleep is just as important for growth as anything else. Sleep, Train, Eat.
Night, bud.

 

[booneman77]

might sound gross...but get 2 huge cans of albacore Tuna, throw it in a bowl, add in some hot sauce (Franks or any Buffalo style), and some pickles....BAM. Protein!

dude... you're speaking my language here ha. I often just put the hot sauce right in the can to save the 30seconds it takes to put it in a bowl haha

 

[bighulksmash]

U gotta try franks red hot and catfish man its like they were meant for each other. Also the best dirty meal ive ever had was steak tacos with red hot sauce and a nacho bell grande

 

[jason267]

UPDATE!!!

Day 7
*Up 6lbs (start was 185, now at 191lbs)
*No sides to speak of, not even acne

*Decided to be a lab rat and try out Formastanzol V3, just one pump in the morning....we shall see.
*Strength was very nice during my morning workout today, def up!!!
*Libido is solid, no lethargy, though did have a sleepless night last night....it happens.
*Have noticed that the muscle gain doesnt seem to feel like the normal water weight/glycogen in the muscles, feels solid.
Really looking forward to week 2, if i remember right, thats when Msten seems to really shine!

 

[booneman77]

UPDATE!!!

Day 7
*Up 6lbs (start was 185, now at 191lbs)
*No sides to speak of, not even acne

*Decided to be a lab rat and try out Formastanzol V3, just one pump in the morning....we shall see.
*Strength was very nice during my morning workout today, def up!!!
*Libido is solid, no lethargy, though did have a sleepless night last night....it happens.
*Have noticed that the muscle gain doesnt seem to feel like the normal weight weight/glycogen in the muscles, feels solid.
Really looking forward to week 2, if i remember right, thats when Msten seems to really shine!

Isn't the new formastanzol just some random td? It's def not formestane iirc

 

[jason267]

Isn't the new formastanzol just some random td? It's def not formestane iirc

totally different formula, after the ban.
-Cyclohexylaminoglutethimide 100mg
-DIM 25mg
-7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
-Chrysin 4mg

 

[booneman77]

totally different formula, after the ban.
-Cyclohexylaminoglutethimide 100mg
-DIM 25mg
-7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
-Chrysin 4mg

That's what I thought. Let us know if/how well it works

 

[bighulksmash]

totally different formula, after the ban.
-Cyclohexylaminoglutethimide 100mg
-DIM 25mg
-7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
-Chrysin 4mg

The dim and chrysin just got me a errectiion ha

 

[jason267]

***
Adding in Alpha One to this stack. Only have enough for 30mgs per day for the next (and final) 3 weeks

1. Msten 20/20/20/30
2. Tren (60mgs)
3. AlphaOne (0/30/30/30)
4. 4Andro (150mgs)
5. Stano (600mgs)

Also, i have felt a dry effect from the new formastanzol V3, only been using it for 4 days now, but its definitely doing something...only bloodwork will tell though.
*I am adding in one cap (25mgs) of Inhibit E @ bedtime. Since I am adding in Alpha1, some estro control is most likely needed!

btw, im really happy about the decision to use Torem everyday for the actual cycle! Ive been reading about using SERMs while on cycle, and its a very common thing. Despite what so many others have told me that it is useless and overkill on a cycle!!!
Balls are hangin and heavy, just like they get during week 2 of clomid PCT!!!! Gyno worries=zero.
Sometimes, i just need a peace of mind. And after more reading, using a serm, such as Nolva on cycle is a old school body builders thing.

 

[bighulksmash]

***
Adding in Alpha One to this stack. Only have enough for 30mgs per day for the next (and final) 3 weeks

1. Msten 20/20/20/30
2. Tren (60mgs)
3. AlphaOne (0/30/30/30)
4. 4Andro (150mgs)
5. Stano (600mgs)

Also, i have felt a dry effect from the new formastanzol V3, only been using it for 4 days now, but its definitely doing something...only bloodwork will tell though.
*I am adding in one cap (25mgs) of Inhibit E @ bedtime. Since I am adding in Alpha1, some estro control is most likely needed!

btw, im really happy about the decision to use Torem everyday for the actual cycle! Ive been reading about using SERMs while on cycle, and its a very common thing. Despite what so many others have told me that it is useless and overkill on a cycle!!!
Balls are hangin and heavy, just like they get during week 2 of clomid PCT!!!! Gyno worries=zero.
Sometimes, i just need a peace of mind. And after more reading, using a serm, such as Nolva on cycle is a old school body builders thing.

True genius

 

[jason267]

DAY 10

Fully kickin right now, this stack is amazing!
I added in Alpha1 yesterday, so i guess that will take a few days or a week to start showing up...
I think the addition of Tren, though it is low dosed, has helped a lot. The Msten is showing massive size gains already, but my stomach is still staying slim. 60mgs of Tren, def worth it.

I have been doing military style training (300 pushups per day, split into sets of 50 reps. Pullups, squat thrusts, crunches, and run a mile...basic stuff), and the next day i hit the gym. Mostly focusing on the big 3, for size. But some days i just focus on chest/tri's, bi's, shoulders, etc. A pretty basic routine. But the military style is paying off as far as giving good definition and endurance...i plan to keep that up in the future.

Starting weight: 185
Currently: 194
almost up 10lbs in 10days...pretty insane. Im sure half is glyco/water, but everything feels solid. I get arm pump so easily, even brushing my teeth makes it look like i just came out of the gym!

Hoping to get/keep a overall gain of 10lbs, after i finish PCT.
GOAL!

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Was thinking about doing this for 8 weeks with tr3n at 150/day. Anybody know when you get diminishing returns on tr3n?

 

[jason267]

Diminishing?