Running a SERM on cycle?

jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Has anyone on here ever run a SERM during a cycle of PH's?

I read a article about how Clomid/Nolva might help keep estrogen in balance during a cycle...
Weve all heard of running an AI while 'on', but want to know if a serm would be beneficial?
I guess the reasoning is that it would keep estro in check and away from troubled areas, while keeping HPTA in as decent shape as possible. Not sure.
 
Hossam

Hossam

New member
Awards
0
no benefits, just a waste of SERM....you need some AI to control Estrogen only if needed
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
^i agree. But im willing to bet someone has done it.
Just wondering what would be the reason. And would it have ANY benefits...
 
Nitro41

Nitro41

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ralox is supposed to boost T levels noticeably. Not sure how it would effect your body while on a cycle though.
 
sanmarino

sanmarino

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Has anyone on here ever run a SERM during a cycle of PH's?

I read a article about how Clomid/Nolva might help keep estrogen in balance during a cycle...
Weve all heard of running an AI while 'on', but want to know if a serm would be beneficial?
I guess the reasoning is that it would keep estro in check and away from troubled areas, while keeping HPTA in as decent shape as possible. Not sure.
During Cycle = AI
In PCT = SERM

Main reason is the heavy decrease in IGF-1 which SERM causes. Second generation SERM like Raloxifen have less side effects but unfortunately also less effects. And a decreased IGF-1 level is the last thing you want to have.

Furthermore, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Every anabolic substance will have an impact on the HTPA, some more some less. What I can recommend during cycles with low impact on the HTPA are vegetable test-booster products. Despite they are vegetable they help too.
In heavy cycles like e.g. Testosterone it doesn't make sense to keep up the LH value. It will regenerate with SERM in PCT.
 
Hossam

Hossam

New member
Awards
0
i have to quote the full study as i cannot post any links:
Royal Jelly maintains testosterone levels during modest steroid cycle
Study
The researchers gave male mice 5 mg oxymetholone [structural formula shown on the right] per kg bodyweight orally every day for four weeks. The human equivalent of this dose, for a bodybuilder weighing 100 kg, would be 50 mg oxymetholone per day. And that would be an extreeeeemly modest steroids cycle.

Half of the mice in the group were also given 100 mg Royal Jelly per kg bodyweight every day. The human equivalent of this dose, again for a bodybuilder weighing 100 kg, would be 1 gram Royal Jelly daily.

Another group of mice was given no oxymetholone. In this group half of the mice were also given Royal Jelly.





Results
Oxymetholone reduced the concentration of testosterone in the mice's blood [OXM] the researchers observed at the end of the four weeks. Royal Jelly supplementation prevented the oxymetholone-induced fall in testosterone level almost completely.


Royal Jelly maintains testosterone levels during modest steroid cycle


Oxymetholone reduces the activity of the protective enzyme catalase [CAT] in the testes. As a result of this aggressive molecules are able to peroxidize more fatty acids in the cells and the concentration of malondialdehyde [MDA] rose. Royal Jelly prevented this from happening.


Royal Jelly maintains testosterone levels during modest steroid cycle


Royal Jelly maintains testosterone levels during modest steroid cycle


The number of mononuclear immune cells in the testes of the mice that had only been given oxymetholone increased. That's an indication of demolition carried out by the immune system in the no longer active tissue in the testes. Royal Jelly supplementation reduced the increase in the number of mononuclear immune cells.

Conclusion
According to data from the same researchers, Royal Jelly also protects the sperm production in mice that are given oxymetholone. [Avicenna J Phytomed. 2014 Jan;4(1):43-52.]

Source:
Iranian Journal of Toxicology 06/2014; 8(25):1073-1080.
Royal Jelly maintains testosterone levels during modest steroid cycle
 
Hossam

Hossam

New member
Awards
0
^ this will be much more beneficial than a SERM during a cycle
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Just thought of something...what about how people always say "keep some Nolva close in case you feel some gyno during your cycle"...
Are they talking about taking Nolva and stopping the cycle completely? Or just running it for a few days?
^just something that made me think back to all the posts ive seen talking about "Keep Nolva on hand", etc.
 
Hossam

Hossam

New member
Awards
0
you should be keeping an AI on hand during a cycle when you feel
the excess of estrogen you can use it, for me i use the Royal jelly for easy recovery after the
cycle and rarely AI.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Always do. Though have never had to use a AI. Luckily.
Royal jelly?
 
Hossam

Hossam

New member
Awards
0
i used AI's with some AS like DBOL
and i use Exem 1 cap a week...with other AS i hardly use any AI's

keep in mind that each person will respond differently to AS and AI's
 
sanmarino

sanmarino

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Just thought of something...what about how people always say "keep some Nolva close in case you feel some gyno during your cycle"...
Are they talking about taking Nolva and stopping the cycle completely? Or just running it for a few days?
^just something that made me think back to all the posts ive seen talking about "Keep Nolva on hand", etc.
That's right, better spend some more money for emergency reasons insted of going on risks. I also have everytime an AI like Aromasin, SERM and Pramipexole as a PI (prolactine inhibitor).
In the worst case important values like the IGF-1 won't be prioritized as number one. Just try to avoid a gyno.

There are some options:
- Taking SERM for the rest of the cycle
- Taking SERM for a time period and decrease the dosage of SERM and continue the cycle at the same time
- Taking SERM and go off

Better replace the SARM in the text above with AI, that's their speciality (to keep the estrogen moderate to low). Look at Hossam's text. SERM for PCT because AI won't have that strong effect on HTPA recovery like the SERM.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I just run Erase at 1 or 2 caps at night for most cycles. But not sure if it is really effective or if ive just been lucky.
My bloodwork always shows im evened out and my test is back to where it should be, 2 weeks after i finish PCT.

Always curious about taking Nolva while ON cycle though...
Some say to take it, others say its a waste...my question is, what are the true benefits if you do have some on hand. Would it help keep estrogen in check well? If so, i dont see how it could be labeled as a "waste".
 
sanmarino

sanmarino

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
What the benefits are to have some SERM on hand? Well, if you don't have any and there is a gyno growing I wish you much fun and luck for organize SERM somewhere as fast as you can. In first line don't take SERM during cycle unless it's nessecary. That's where the benefit of AI truly shines.
While SERM "just" block the receptors AI will decrease the amount of estrogen in the body. Imagine a very heavy cycle with testosterone for example. If you don't have enough muscle receptors where the testosterone can dock on, the more will be converted into estrogen (e.g. a 70kg boy takes 1000mg testosterone per week).
With SERM: the estrogen receptors are blocked but you have still a very high amount of estrogen in your body.
With AI: the amount of estrogen will decreased. How strong, it depends on the AI and its dosage.

Why are you so fixed on that to take SERM during cycle? The advantages and disadvantages of AI and SERM where explained and you should evaluate now what to use in which situation.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Only talking about the many posts ive read about people using Nolva during a cycle. I dont think its needed at all DURING. But i may be wrong, it may help keep things level compared to running a strong AI that can crush estro and leave people feeling like ****.
 
Godstrength

Godstrength

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I just run Erase at 1 or 2 caps at night for most cycles. But not sure if it is really effective or if ive just been lucky. My bloodwork always shows im evened out and my test is back to where it should be, 2 weeks after i finish PCT. Always curious about taking Nolva while ON cycle though... Some say to take it, others say its a waste...my question is, what are the true benefits if you do have some on hand. Would it help keep estrogen in check well? If so, i dont see how it could be labeled as a "waste".
Nolva will do nothing to "control" estrogen... It only serves as a blocker to receptors in the breast tissue. So your e2 levels would stay the same only the E2 would have no tissue to bind to since the receptor would be blocked. This is why it is effective at stopping gyno. An AI lowers e2 levels therefor doing a better job controlling it. The Nolva should be used only to prevent gyno while running cycle, if you see it starting to form. 10-20 mg is plenty.


Likewise it works well as a serm because while the receptors are blocked it tricks the body into believing it's not getting any E2 so in turn the HPTA fires producing more test in an attempt to also produce more estrogen since the body is constantly trying to bring itself into homeostasis.
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
If you are having a hard time keeping estrogen down and under control on cycle, you can use Nolva to keep it from binding to receptors and actually causing gyno. No, it doesn't replace the need to use an AI to actually lower and control estrogen on cycle, but it will keep said estrogen from binding.
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Just realized the post above me basically said same thing.
 
mixedup

mixedup

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Ummmm why didn't ask me me lol???? Remember I started before we had ldex letro aromasin any of that and yes I've run serms during cycle we all use to
 
The_Old_Guy

The_Old_Guy

Well-known member
Awards
0
What I can recommend during cycles with low impact on the HTPA are vegetable test-booster products. Despite they are vegetable they help too.
Mr. Sanmarino,

Can you explain this further? Being older, I happen to find the plant based products actually *do* work (not accounting for placebo, but I'm pretty skeptical as a rule) for libido. That's not really a big deal for 20 and 30 year olds - but for us "pushing 50" guys... :)

What do you like about plant based "Test Boosters", even when On Cycle? Is it the libido effects, or more?

Thank you sir.
 
sanmarino

sanmarino

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Hi The_Old_Guy

Have you tried Tribulus yet? It is a powerful plant. Also contents like Fadogia Agrestis or Fenugreek are helpful. Moreover Vitamin E is also a nice addition.
Optimally, you search for a test booster which contains these products (will send you a PM, I'm not sure if it's allowed to name an example product).

Regards

EDIT: can't send you a PM, don't know why. Try to send me one.
 
The_Old_Guy

The_Old_Guy

Well-known member
Awards
0
PMs are down, I can't even read the ones that have come in . Anyway, I'm very familiar with all the compounds, I was just wanting to get your take on why you like them while *on* a cycle of AS/DS/PH?
 
sanmarino

sanmarino

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
All right. I personally don't use test boosters during cycles - that was just a suggestion for the thread opener. In cycles which affect the HTPA strongly (like most of the AAS/DS/PH), a test booster in my opinion doesn't make sence. As far I have seen serveral blood works of SARM (ab)use, the HTPA won't be affected that strongly as on "classical" anabolic compounds. With an implementation of a test booster you will have in some cases a shorter regeneration.
But this is more a subjective opinion.

And as said: if the HTPA is completely shut down a test booster doesn't makes sense anymore.
 

max d

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
^ this will be much more beneficial than a SERM during a cycle




This is my first time hearing about royal jelly. Is this saying in modest cycles your T wont get shut down? Becasuse your T isnt shutdown are we to assume that estrogen wont get jacked up then because your body wont be compensating during and after cycle? What kind of cycles, and dose, did you use it with and did you get bloods? Anyone else try royal jelly during a cycle?
 
BertBolic

BertBolic

New member
Awards
0
Those royal jelly results are from an Iranian journal.

Every scientist's goal is to publish in the highest ranked journal possible and if this is the best journal this study could do, I would be skeptical...
 
Blergs

Blergs

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Has anyone on here ever run a SERM during a cycle of PH's?

I read a article about how Clomid/Nolva might help keep estrogen in balance during a cycle...
Weve all heard of running an AI while 'on', but want to know if a serm would be beneficial?
I guess the reasoning is that it would keep estro in check and away from troubled areas, while keeping HPTA in as decent shape as possible. Not sure.
Serms SO NOT lower estrogen... not sure what you read, but its AI like dex or letro that lower estrogen.
use the SERM after the steroids to help recovery.

*yes serms block estrogen in the breast.. but thats BLOCK... your body is still over filling on it if you needed an AI...
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Serms SO NOT lower estrogen... not sure what you read, but its AI like dex or letro that lower estrogen.
use the SERM after the steroids to help recovery.

*yes serms block estrogen in the breast.. but thats BLOCK... your body is still over filling on it if you needed an AI...
True of course, but isnt one of the main fears is having gyno? so, as most have pointed out, "yes serms block estrogen in the breast"....
So with that said, i could see why running a serm while on cycle would be a great addition.
Of course you need to keep estro in check, as it effects many other things in the body. But not having to worry about gyno would be a plus!
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Exactly.
If a serm helps from binding to the chest areas, it would make since that it would be VERY beneficial since most worries when running a PH/DS cycle is gyno.
I would think that running low dosed Nolva, either 10 per day or 10 EOD, would help out a lot.

And i noticed that i have been questioned when i started this thread, about my ignorance in using a serm during PCT! First and foremost, i have always used either Clomid (my go-to) or Nolva for the main component in my PCT. Period!
*I was simply questioning if running one DURING a cycle would perhaps help with any gyno scares, and be able to put them in the back of your mind with the simple knowledge that one of the best parts of a SERM (nolva esp) is to keep esto from binding to you breasts!!! Sounds like a good idea to me.
Next cycle, im running one, at least EOD. I dont see how it would hinder anything, but instead, be of some good use while during a heavy cycle.
 
mixedup

mixedup

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Honestly using 10mg of tamox ed was standard when I started because we didn't have ai's adex letro etc none of that was available people forget most ai's people use now a days a 2nd and 3rd generation. Arimidex wasn't approved even approved till like 96 and wasn't readily available
 
TacTownbeast

TacTownbeast

Member
Awards
0
I'm gyno prone so yes I run nolva during cycle. 50mg dermatrest ED, I run 10mg nolva and 6.25 aromasin ED. The aromasin helps keep to much estrogen from developing, and the nolva keeps it from binding to the tissue. And trust me you want some estrogen, it is a ****ty feeling when you eradicate to much estrogen from your body
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
speaking of low estrogen. Im in PCT right now, im running Clomid and DAA, and decided to throw in a natty test booster that also has 6 Bromo in it....

Will this be a good even match, or will it be a bit too much estro suppressive?
I usually just run Clomid and DAA for PCT.

Also, the 6 Bromo is dosed higher than what ive seen in other supps. Its 250mgs a day. (but i can spilt the dosage if need be). I want to get my libido back on track as fast as possible, and i know having a proper amount of estro can be a good thing...
 
TacTownbeast

TacTownbeast

Member
Awards
0
speaking of low estrogen. Im in PCT right now, im running Clomid and DAA, and decided to throw in a natty test booster that also has 6 Bromo in it....

Will this be a good even match, or will it be a bit too much estro suppressive?
I usually just run Clomid and DAA for PCT.

Also, the 6 Bromo is dosed higher than what ive seen in other supps. Its 250mgs a day. (but i can spilt the dosage if need be). I want to get my libido back on track as fast as possible, and i know having a proper amount of estro can be a good thing...
I can't comment on the 6Bromo. When I experienced the low estro feeling I was on stanodrol, epistane, and I was using pct black which has arimistane which is an AI. Me personally, my PCT is usually nolva, aromasin, and dermastrength. I continue the dermastrength through the time off cycle period also.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ya, im sure im just being paranoid. I never use or go overkill during PCT. My tried and true method for me, has always been just Clomid and DAA.
I hear good things about 6Bromo though, so im going to run it for the full month during my PCT, and ill post up a report after i get my post PCT bloodwork in (usually get it around 2 weeks after i finish PCT).
 

max d

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I can't comment on the 6Bromo. When I experienced the low estro feeling I was on stanodrol, epistane, and I was using pct black which has arimistane which is an AI. Me personally, my PCT is usually nolva, aromasin, and dermastrength. I continue the dermastrength through the time off cycle period also.
Arimistane is bunk.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Exactly!!!
People swear by that stuff!!!

Its comments like those that make people scared of running a good OTC AI, such as Erase.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Not sure if anyone can find a link to it, but years ago, i saw that a guy used ERASE during a strong AAS run. Pinning Test, and opting to try out erase!
He got bloodwork and posted it, and it proved that it worked AMAZINGLY!
No RC AI's...just erase.

^That was enough for me. I figure if it works well for a full blown TEST cycle of 16 weeks, then my little 4 week PH cycles with it should be fine!
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
^Hey McCrew530...care to drop some knowledge about Erase???
 
McCrew530

McCrew530

Well-known member
Awards
0
Why do you think that arimistane isn't in the new erase formula?
Because there are literally hundreds of products that have arimistane in them. I asked the same question when they switched up the formula. I haven't used the new formula yet but plan to when I go into pct. Any one that uses it though notes a leaner dryer look. But it has been noted that it its a light ai. There are plenty of stronger single compound options
 
McCrew530

McCrew530

Well-known member
Awards
0
Some Test users don't need an AI at all for heavy cycles.. I wouldn't credit Erase for this..

Erase may or may not work, but I wouldn't rely on it for a Test cycle.
This is true.
 

max d

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Exactly!!!
People swear by that stuff!!!

Its comments like those that make people scared of running a good OTC AI, such as Erase.
Feel free to use it as a diuretic and for cortisol reduction but not as an AI. As the Hodge twins would say, "This is all just advice do whatever the f@co you want!" Haaaa
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Feel free to use it as a diuretic and for cortisol reduction but not as an AI. As the Hodge twins would say, "This is all just advice do whatever the f@co you want!" Haaaa
ah, you listen to those idiots, huh? Then, your advice is full of hope!
 

max d

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
ah, you listen to those idiots, huh? Then, your advice is full of hope!
Purely entertainment purposes only.... but the end result is the same. If you want to rely on arimistane as an AI go for it. Sometimes you have to get burnt to realize you are wrong. Best of luck.
 
TacTownbeast

TacTownbeast

Member
Awards
0
I personally use aromasin for all AI needs!!!! Nothing OTC. I had some revolution PCT left over and used it with the Epi.... Not a good move, estrogen was way too low.
 
jason267

jason267

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Purely entertainment purposes only.... but the end result is the same. If you want to rely on arimistane as an AI go for it. Sometimes you have to get burnt to realize you are wrong. Best of luck.
I have used it for the past 4 cycles (the first two i ran nothing but Cycle Assist), and the bloodwork i received 2 weeks AFTER i finished PCT, proved that my estrogen levels had returned to normal. My first two cycles however, without Arimistane, showed elevated estrogen....And those were from simple 4 weeks Hdrol cycles @ 50mgs!!! "Sometimes you have to get burnt to realize you are wrong. Best of luck."
 

Similar threads


Top