PCT for EQ/ Winny stack

[Landmine]

Week Equipoise Winstrol/Stromba
1 400 mg/week
2 400 mg/week
3 200 mg/week 50 mg every (other) day
4 200mg/week 50 mg every (other) day
5 200mg/week 50 mg every (other) day
6 200mg/week 50 mg every (other) day
7 200mg/week 50 mg every (other) day
8 200mg/week 50 mg every (other) day

This will be my first cycle in about 3 years. However I am not sure how to set

up the PCT. Could I get some advice? Also would you mess with the cycle the way it's

set up so far? I'm cutting up for summer! Thanks!!

 

[hethcliff]

frist, eq is best used in a cyle for at least 12 weeks. with such a long ester it takes a while to kick in. second, 6 weeks of winny is gunna be pretty tough on the joints. why taper the eq dose down? 200mg is a pretty low dose of eq. Also, an eq based cycle is not really reccomended. I would add some test enth or cyp in at 500-600mg per week and run it for 13 weeks. Run the eq at 400mg per week for 12 weeks. pct would be clomid at 200mg/day for one week, 100mg/day for the next 3 weeks with nolva at 60mg/day for the first week, 40 for the next two weeks, and 20 for the last week. high calories and protein post cycle with less volume in your training.

 

[Matthew D]

yep.. where's the test in that cycle?

 

[Landmine]

Could I run Proviron the last 4 weeks instead of using the nolva and clomid?

 

[kwantam]

Could I run Proviron the last 4 weeks instead of using the nolva and clomid?

The purpose of the nolva and clomid for PCT is to get your HPTA back up and running. Proviron won't do this. I've seen second-hand accounts claiming that there are people for whom proviron may not have a negative impact on the HPTA, but even in these people it doesn't have the HPTA stimulating effects of clomid and nolva.

Perhaps your confusion comes from the fact that while on cycle people often take proviron instead of nolva. While on-cycle, the use of nolva prevents estrogen-related problems; since proviron will bind aromatase, it prevents test from converting to estrogen and causing these problems. In point of fact, proviron isn't really a direct functional replacement for nolva---the latter acts by binding estrogen receptors, whereas the former prevents estrogen from forming. In this capacity proviron is more comparable to femara or arimidex, both of which are also often used to replace nolva while on-cycle (though proviron is preferred because in addition to inhibiting the action of aromatase, it acts to keep libido up and exhibits an androgenic effect that does a nice job of hardening the muscles).

Post-cycle, nolva/clomid are used because they competitively inhibit the estrogen receptor and simultaneously encourage the return of natural testosterone production. Proviron can't perform this second function, and as such is inappropriate for PCT.

-kwantam

 

[Skye]

I'm sorry but that is a bad cycle. 400mg is the min dose you want with EQ to start with let alone ramping it down from. And there is no point in ramping a long ester like that anyways I would stop what your doning and do some more research as this is really not advisable

 

[Landmine]

The purpose of the nolva and clomid for PCT is to get your HPTA back up and running. Proviron won't do this. I've seen second-hand accounts claiming that there are people for whom proviron may not have a negative impact on the HPTA, but even in these people it doesn't have the HPTA stimulating effects of clomid and nolva.

Perhaps your confusion comes from the fact that while on cycle people often take proviron instead of nolva. While on-cycle, the use of nolva prevents estrogen-related problems; since proviron will bind aromatase, it prevents test from converting to estrogen and causing these problems. In point of fact, proviron isn't really a direct functional replacement for nolva---the latter acts by binding estrogen receptors, whereas the former prevents estrogen from forming. In this capacity proviron is more comparable to femara or arimidex, both of which are also often used to replace nolva while on-cycle (though proviron is preferred because in addition to inhibiting the action of aromatase, it acts to keep libido up and exhibits an androgenic effect that does a nice job of hardening the muscles).

Post-cycle, nolva/clomid are used because they competitively inhibit the estrogen receptor and simultaneously encourage the return of natural testosterone production. Proviron can't perform this second function, and as such is inappropriate for PCT.

-kwantam

Thanks that cleared up a lot of confusion.

 

[Landmine]

I'm sorry but that is a bad cycle. 400mg is the min dose you want with EQ to start with let alone ramping it down from. And there is no point in ramping a long ester like that anyways I would stop what your doning and do some more research as this is really not advisable

I've decided to tweak it a bit.

Weeks 1-10 400mg EQ
Weeks 5-10 50mg Winny ED
PCT Clomid/Nolva

Would you agree this is a better plan?

 

[Cuffs]

I've decided to tweak it a bit.

Weeks 1-10 400mg EQ
Weeks 5-10 50mg Winny ED
PCT Clomid/Nolva

Would you agree this is a better plan?

Where is the Test? Also, I don't think you'll need the clomid, just use the nolva for PCT.

 

[Landmine]

Where is the Test? Also, I don't think you'll need the clomid, just use the nolva for PCT.

Testosterone Propionate or Testosterone Enanthate? How would you stack it?

 

[Cuffs]

Test Enan would be a good choice, and less injects per week. I haven't done much research on EQ, and not too sure of the ratios, but you want a higher dose of Test to your EQ. Something like this:

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs ew
Weeks 1-10 EQ 400mgs ew
Weeks 6-12 Winny 50mgs ed

Run the winny 10-11 days past your last Test inject due to the half life (some go 2 weeks past).

Like I said, I'm not too up on EQ, so the dose may be off on what I proposed. I'm sure someone here will chime in with advice if it's wrong.

There are other cycles to cut with, that are probably better. You could go with Test Prop/winny, or Test Prop/Tren Ace, Test Prop/Anavar. The Test Prop injects need to be either ed or eod.

 

[kwantam]

Weeks 1-10 Test E 500mgs ew
Weeks 1-10 EQ 400mgs ew
Weeks 6-12 Winny 50mgs ed

I was going to suggest something similar, except that running Winny longer than 4 weeks is going to have you feeling like the dude who drank from the wrong chalice in Indiana Jones. Also, I'd think about running prop both as a front load and after you end the enan:

1-2 test prop 100mg EOD (optional)
1-10 test enan 500mg/wk (split into two injects)
1-10 EQ 400mg/wk (split into two injects)
9-12 Winny 50mg ED
11-12 test prop 100mg EOD (optional)
13-16 Nolva 40/40/20/20

If I had to choose between prop at the beginning or at the end, I'd pick the end.

-kwantam

 

[Cuffs]

Not to jack this thread up and all, but can winny cause mood swings, such as feeling down and somewhat depressed? Say, if a certain dude is on it for 6 weeks?

 

[glenihan]

you should run the test enan one week past the eq as the eq has an undec ester and will take an additional week to clear ... this way both hormones clear at the same time

 

[dg806]

IMO the worst thing winny does is what it does to your blood lipids, especially 6 weeks worth. Cuffs, you definately need some Nolva as this will help the lipid profile somewhat, but it would be a good idea to get them checked to see where you stand. Winny is the worse AS for lipids.

 

[mmorpheuss]

So i take it everyone here uses test in cutters?

 

[glenihan]

So i take it everyone here uses test in cutters?

you absolutely should

 

[Landmine]

So i take it everyone here uses test in cutters?

So will I not add any lean mass without adding test to this cycle?

Weeks 1-10 EQ 400mgs
Weeks 7-13 Winny 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-13 Provirin 50mgs ED
Weekks 14-15 Clomid/Nolva

 

[Cuffs]

So will I not add any lean mass without adding test to this cycle?

Weeks 1-10 EQ 400mgs
Weeks 7-13 Winny 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-13 Provirin 50mgs ED
Weekks 14-15 Clomid/Nolva

Well, that all depends on your diet, training and so on. You may add some, however, keeping it is another thing. Having Test as a base for your cycle, will allow you to better keep what gains you will make.

 

[Landmine]

I was going to suggest something similar, except that running Winny longer than 4 weeks is going to have you feeling like the dude who drank from the wrong chalice in Indiana Jones. Also, I'd think about running prop both as a front load and after you end the enan:

1-2 test prop 100mg EOD (optional)
1-10 test enan 500mg/wk (split into two injects)
1-10 EQ 400mg/wk (split into two injects)
9-12 Winny 50mg ED
11-12 test prop 100mg EOD (optional)
13-16 Nolva 40/40/20/20

If I had to choose between prop at the beginning or at the end, I'd pick the end.

-kwantam

Thanks for everyones input. I want to start this next Friday so I want to run this through you guys one last time. Does everything look good? This will be my first cycle in a couple of years.

1-10 test enan 500mg/wk (split into two injects)
1-10 EQ 400mg/wk (split into two injects)
9-12 Winny 50mg ED
11-12 test prop 100mg EOD
13-16 Nolva 40/40/20/20

 

[glenihan]

10 weeks of eq isn't long enough

 

[MikeBU]

400mg/week of EQ is not going to do much for you. Especially on a diet, because it will make you HUNGRY AS HELL. A friend took it for a bulk and he couldn't stuff enough food in his mouth. I think it would be hard to use this substance for cutting. Good luck.

 

[glenihan]

you're definitely spot on about the hunger and he better pick up some meridia if he plans on using it while cutting

but i think 400mg of eq is enough to make a noticable difference physiologically/physically

 

[Landmine]

10 weeks of eq isn't long enough

So bump the EQ and Test to twelve weeks?

1-12test enan 500mg/wk (split into two injects)
1-12 EQ 400mg/wk (split into two injects)
11-14 Winny 50mg ED
13-14 test prop 100mg EOD
15-18 Nolva 40/40/20/20

 

[glenihan]

looks a lot better to me ... possibly look into adding rebound xt to your PCT, i haven't used it yet, but i will at the end of june, do a search and read about all the success people are having with it .. this is optional

ohhhh add HCG in there starting week 3 or 4 at 250ius 2x a week until a few days before pct

 

[Landmine]

looks a lot better to me ... possibly look into adding rebound xt to your PCT, i haven't used it yet, but i will at the end of june, do a search and read about all the success people are having with it .. this is optional

ohhhh add HCG in there starting week 3 or 4 at 250ius 2x a week until a few days before pct

So HCG 250ius 2x a week, weeks 4-12 then just use nolva and clomid for PCT weeks 13-16?

 

[glenihan]

what about prop weeks 13-14? just adjust what you just said to reflect that

 

[Landmine]

what about prop weeks 13-14? just adjust what you just said to reflect that

Thanks!

 

[Landmine]

I'm planning on eating around 3000 calories, 380gms protein, 297gms carbs and 25gms fat. I'm currently at 12.3% bodyfat and I want to be down around 8% at the end of this cycle. What type of results can I realistically expect at the end of this cycle. Especially increase in lean body mass! Thanks!!

 

[Landmine]

I'm planning on eating around 3000 calories, 380gms protein, 297gms carbs and 25gms fat. I'm currently at 12.3% bodyfat and I want to be down around 8% at the end of this cycle. What type of results can I realistically expect at the end of this cycle. Especially increase in lean body mass! Thanks!!

bump