Transdermals and organs

[matt21irby21]

Basically just wanting to know how harsh transdermals are on your liver compared to the oral version. like dermatren vs oral tren. I've done quite a bit of googling but no one seems to talk about it.

 

[Afi140]

Basically just wanting to know how harsh transdermals are on your liver compared to the oral version. like dermatren vs oral tren. I've done quite a bit of googling but no one seems to talk about it.

transdermals avoid the first pass of the liver. However the compound used will have a substantial impact.

 

[matt21irby21]

Thats what I was hoping. thanks!

 

[T-Bone]

It's more specific to the particular drug, not the delivery method.

 

[vujade]

they still put stress on the liver. And it is probably some of the transdermal carriers that do more of the harm
the the PH's themselves.... I just got done running a cycle with transdermals and despite using Tudca @ 500mg
a day and also running Damage Control too, my Alt/Ast enzymes were quite elevated. I did pre and post bloodwork.
Pre bloodwork they were within normal range, post Alt was 3 times the limit and Ast was about 50% over limit.
Though Bilirubin was within range in the pre and post.

 

[Afi140]

It's more specific to the particular drug, not the delivery method.

very very true. The first bypass may help but they're in no means completely side free. I have had ast and alt levels 3-4x the above normal range. After that scare I have been very cautious of the compounds I used. tbh have stayed away from Ph's other than 1-Andro for a while now.

 

[Afi140]

they still put stress on the liver. And it is probably some of the transdermal carriers that do more of the harm the the PH's themselves.... I just got done running a cycle with transdermals and despite using Tudca @ 500mg a day and also running Damage Control too, my Alt/Ast enzymes were quite elevated. I did pre and post bloodwork. Pre bloodwork they were within normal range, post Alt was 3 times the limit and Ast was about 50% over limit. Though Bilirubin was within range in the pre and post.

what were you running? Do you have evidence that it was the carrier and not the compound or is this just your own conclusion?

 

[Whacked]

they still put stress on the liver. And it is probably some of the transdermal carriers that do more of the harm the the PH's themselves.... I just got done running a cycle with transdermals and despite using Tudca @ 500mg a day and also running Damage Control too, my Alt/Ast enzymes were quite elevated. I did pre and post bloodwork. Pre bloodwork they were within normal range, post Alt was 3 times the limit and Ast was about 50% over limit. Though Bilirubin was within range in the pre and post.

Not sure how the carrier would be hepatotoxic Vujade. Would bet money it was instead the steroid you were using.

Three times the normal range upper limit is worthy of concern although it's nice to see your Bilirubin levels were maintained.

Given the fact you were also using decent ancillary support (provided it was legit) with liver protective attributes makes this theory more logical. In addition to this, you may innately just be a poor metabolizer of hepatotoxic compounds. Some of us just aren't as lucky in this department.

Perhaps consider double (or tripling when warranted) your dose of the TUDCA next time as an added layer of protection.

 

[vujade]

what were you running? Do you have evidence that it was the carrier and not the compound or is this just your own conclusion?

No I don't have evidence of such. I just made an educated guess about this because of the fact that some transdermal carriers
have certain types of alcohol in them and sometimes other chemicals that when taken transdermally could effect the liver when
multiple transdermal compounds are run simultaneously multiple times per day.

Im not saying that the PH/DS don't have an effect on the liver transdermally, i just couldnt imagine the other chemicals in the
carriers not having any effect thats all.

I ran DermaTrest for 8 weeks, DermaFury for 6 weeks, Andro 300 (EpiAndro) for 4 weeks & 11 Oxoderm for 4 weeks.

Not sure how the carrier would be hepatotoxic Vujade. Would bet money it was instead the steroid you were using.

Three times the normal range upper limit is worthy of concern although it's nice to see your Bilirubin levels were maintained.

Given the fact you were also using decent ancillary support (provided it was legit) with liver protective attributes makes this theory more logical.
In addition to this, you may innately just be a poor metabolizer of hepatotoxic compounds. Some of us just aren't as lucky in this department.

Perhaps consider double (or tripling when warranted) your dose of the TUDCA next time as an added layer of protection.

Your probably correct, like I said in my reply above, it was more of an educated guess more then anything.

Yes, the Alt/Ast values were of a concern to me especially since i tried to cover my bases with multiple ancillary support products.
I used Damage Control, plus added Aegis for additional 25mg of Tudca, plus also added additional Milk Thistle as well.

That's why Im sure Bilirubin was within normal range. I never had any signs of liver damage. Urine stayed almost clear most of
the time because i drink so much water, my bowel movements also stayed normal. I had no skin or eye yellowing. No loss of
appetite whatsoever. Only sign of damage was the bloodwork.

I also believe that theres a possibility after doing much research on the subject that it could also be a fatty liver, because over
the 12 weeks i ate a very high fat/high protein low carb diet.

Im continuing the Aegis @ 500mg per day plus taking Damage Control (which has 200mg of Tudca), so Im running 700mg
of Tudca a day, plus the NAC that both include and will be taking bloodwork again 30 days after the previous bloodwork
to see if the levels normal out again.