How To Use Test as Base During Epi Cycle?

[bennoes]

So everyone says how test is best as a base for all cycles. I dont wanna go on a full gear cycle (12 weeks) or whatever otherwise ill have to introduce hcg etc. and ive gotten a few bottles of ph's left over so since i have access to test, i may aswell use it over dermacrine and (insert other test base products).

So i was planning on running Epistane 30/40/40/50/50/50. I will try out Test E, do i start the test 2 weeks before i start Epi so it kicks in by the time i start the Epistane? Also what kind of dosage would i run? 250mg a week? Has anyone had experience with using Test as an actual Test Base for a ph cycle? Let me know. Thanks guys

 

[Matthew1237]

Not sure how entirely necessary it is. Now I am by far not experienced - but if you're young you can probably run the epi without a test base. I've been running anadrol (I know I know by most considered stupid as it is - not helping my case) but I've felt little to no side effects two weeks in. No lethargy, aggression up a bit - no real shrinkage and libido is just fine. That being said - everyone is different! Since I got such a grilling by the board members I picked up some Dermacrine - but it may not have been all that necessary.

 

[Dma378]

Use Test if you have access to it. You'll be glad you did.

 

[bennoes]

Use Test if you have access to it. You'll be glad you did.

How would u run the test if u were to do a Epi cycle? Have u used test as a base before?

 

[Dma378]

How would u run the test if u were to do a Epi cycle? Have u used test as a base before?

I have. Start them at the same time. Obviously have an AI. And I recommend pharm grade ancillaries for on cycle and pct.

 

[EatMoar]

You need an AI on cycle, have your serm on hand as well. By AI I would use aromosin. Also, didn't you just come off a cycle? You posted about the possibility of gyno not to long ago. I wouldn't touch anything if that's the case.

 

[booneman77]

If you hve access to test p that would better since when you get off the epi, the test e will still need to clear for two weeks before pct can start. If you use a short water you can finish the same time. Plus test p will kick in faster too.

Def want an ai on hand but you may not need it during cycle since epi has mild ai properties itself.

Suicidal ai is a must in pct tho. Aromasin is your best bet.

If you must run test e, I would start it early and drop it a week before your epi stops. That way there's only 1 week left for it to clear your system. And remember that the test is just a base so you're looking at TRT doses (100mg/week or so)

 

[Dma378]

So are you suggesting that he only run the Test for 6-8 weeks in that case?

I would suggest Epi for 5-6, Test for 10-12.

 

[Dma378]

I guess if it's only intention is as a base, your layout works Boone.

 

[AscendoTuum]

So everyone says how test is best as a base for all cycles. I dont wanna go on a full gear cycle (12 weeks) or whatever otherwise ill have to introduce hcg etc. and ive gotten a few bottles of ph's left over so since i have access to test, i may aswell use it over dermacrine and (insert other test base products).

So i was planning on running Epistane 30/40/40/50/50/50. I will try out Test E, do i start the test 2 weeks before i start Epi so it kicks in by the time i start the Epistane? Also what kind of dosage would i run? 250mg a week? Has anyone had experience with using Test as an actual Test Base for a ph cycle? Let me know. Thanks guys

Just curious, but why go through all the trouble but shorten this up so much? I did a couple Epistane cycles before it got banned, and it has very low sides, but methylated orals at 50 mg per day etc seem a lot harsher than the test base youre talking about. I don't have any experience on that side of things, but am curious what your goals / thought process are on this.

 

[booneman77]

So are you suggesting that he only run the Test for 6-8 weeks in that case? I would suggest Epi for 5-6, Test for 10-12.

I guess if it's only intention is as a base, your layout works Boone.

If he runs prop then ya 6-8 is plenty. I've seen decent gains at just 4 even. And as a base it's really not there to build just to support so it doesn't matter much

 

[highgains]

I dont have any experience with test as a base but maybe this might help my first prohormone when i was young and was epi and pstanz (it was a one time stanz clone)
i ran it epi: 20/30/30/40/40 pstanz:150/250/250/250/250 with all support supps and a nolva pct. Never had any rebound gyno either.
gotta say it was a great cycle(even weeks after pct) it leaned me out completely, so vascular and dropped some weight, harder muscles and looked great and felt great, no libido loss infact i was at it like a rabbit even through pct, but that was about it not much strength or actual size gains its more of a recomp obv but that paticular cycle worked very well for me.

 

[bennoes]

You need an AI on cycle, have your serm on hand as well. By AI I would use aromosin. Also, didn't you just come off a cycle? You posted about the possibility of gyno not to long ago. I wouldn't touch anything if that's the case.

Thanks bro I appreciate the concern! I did just finish a cycle at the end of last year, and I forgot to mention but this Epi run will be at the end of this year, I wanna stick with one cycle per year. Also i only posted that I had minor puffy nipples, but I had that before I cycled anything and it certainly isn't sensitive or anything so I dont think its gyno. I will definitely use a proper AI, not some OTC bs. Either aromasin or arimidex I'll have on hand

 

[booneman77]

Thanks bro I appreciate the concern! I did just finish a cycle at the end of last year, and I forgot to mention but this Epi run will be at the end of this year, I wanna stick with one cycle per year. Also i only posted that I had minor puffy nipples, but I had that before I cycled anything and it certainly isn't sensitive or anything so I dont think its gyno. I will definitely use a proper AI, not some OTC bs. Either aromasin or arimidex I'll have on hand

if you choose Adex make sure you take your time tapering off to prevent rebound. It's not a suicidal ai like aromasin

 

[bennoes]

If you hve access to test p that would better since when you get off the epi, the test e will still need to clear for two weeks before pct can start. If you use a short water you can finish the same time. Plus test p will kick in faster too.

Def want an ai on hand but you may not need it during cycle since epi has mild ai properties itself.

Suicidal ai is a must in pct tho. Aromasin is your best bet.

If you must run test e, I would start it early and drop it a week before your epi stops. That way there's only 1 week left for it to clear your system. And remember that the test is just a base so you're looking at TRT doses (100mg/week or so)

That's a great layout and info you got there brother. I haven't researched much on test p but I heard the fast the ester the more pain when injecting, I'll definitely look into it though. Also would test p be okay since its my first time doing injectables? Or is it more for advanced users?

 

[bennoes]

Just curious, but why go through all the trouble but shorten this up so much? I did a couple Epistane cycles before it got banned, and it has very low sides, but methylated orals at 50 mg per day etc seem a lot harsher than the test base youre talking about. I don't have any experience on that side of things, but am curious what your goals / thought process are on this.

Good question. So I have bottles of tren, halo, DMZ and Epi that I have stocked up and wanna use them up. I used dermacrine on my first cycle as a test base but I read everywhere that straight test is the best test base, so since I have access to it I may as well get some more info on using test as a base for a ph cycle. Also once u hit the longer durations 8+ weeks I think its pretty important to introduce hcg as well and the longer your htpa is shutdown the harder the recovering IMO. Hence why I just wanna run a 6 week Epi and then think about the possibility of running test as a base for it and gather some info on it I wanna focus on the ph side and then use the test as a supplementary anabolic to keep my energy and libido up.

 

[booneman77]

That's a great layout and info you got there brother. I haven't researched much on test p but I heard the fast the ester the more pain when injecting, I'll definitely look into it though. Also would test p be okay since its my first time doing injectables? Or is it more for advanced users?

prop was my first cycle the only reason people shy away and don't recommend prop or short esters for first timers is because you have to pin more often (Ed/Eod vs 1-2x per week). Personally I think short esters are better for beginners as they allow for more flexibility. You can up the dose if it's not doing enough and have it impact quickly or if things go bad, you can also stop quickly and not have to wait weeks for sides to stop or to jump into pct. there's a lot more freedom and control available with the additional pins and faster action.

The pain is not during the injection, it's in he following day or so (post injection pain or pip) shorter esters leave more crystallization then long esters as they're absorbed faster. It's this crystallized portion that can cause some aches and pain. It's nothing terrible but it can be uncomfortable. Pinning in certain places may need to be planned around workouts too so you're not super stiff in the muscle you're trying to work. I found that it was easy enough to work around even though it was a bit uncomfortable. Also it gets better over the weeks as your body gets more used to it.

 

[bennoes]

prop was my first cycle the only reason people shy away and don't recommend prop or short esters for first timers is because you have to pin more often (Ed/Eod vs 1-2x per week). Personally I think short esters are better for beginners as they allow for more flexibility. You can up the dose if it's not doing enough and have it impact quickly or if things go bad, you can also stop quickly and not have to wait weeks for sides to stop or to jump into pct. there's a lot more freedom and control available with the additional pins and faster action.

The pain is not during the injection, it's in he following day or so (post injection pain or pip) shorter esters leave more crystallization then long esters as they're absorbed faster. It's this crystallized portion that can cause some aches and pain. It's nothing terrible but it can be uncomfortable. Pinning in certain places may need to be planned around workouts too so you're not super stiff in the muscle you're trying to work. I found that it was easy enough to work around even though it was a bit uncomfortable. Also it gets better over the weeks as your body gets more used to it.

Thanks thats some great experience and info there. So if i choose to use test prop, from what i gather it comes in 100mg/mL, 10mL vials, should i aim for 200mg a week to act as a test base/a little more than a normal base, and then divide that in 4 injections on average per week and 50mg per injection? So as long as i hit the required mg for the week, it doesnt matter what ester test im using is what im trying to ask?

 

[booneman77]

Thanks thats some great experience and info there. So if i choose to use test prop, from what i gather it comes in 100mg/mL, 10mL vials, should i aim for 200mg a week to act as a test base/a little more than a normal base, and then divide that in 4 injections on average per week and 50mg per injection? So as long as i hit the required mg for the week, it doesnt matter what ester test im using is what im trying to ask?

Yep that's a pretty solid plan. 50mg eod is what I would do. Don't worry about the "I took 4 this week and only 3 next week" crap. Your body doesn't know what day it is so dosing eod just means it's a constant flow of test coming in regular intervals. It's really not about hitting a weekly amount but just keeping blood levels stabile at the level you want.

The shorter esters will actually give you very slightly more true test compared to long esters due to having a lower ester weight. Basically more bang for your buck

 

[Dma378]

My opinion would be to aim for 75 EOD. That averages to about 255-260 a week. 13 shot in a 10ml vial.

 

[Dma378]

That is true I think prop is like 90%, E an C are closer to like 75%

 

[bennoes]

Yep that's a pretty solid plan. 50mg eod is what I would do. Don't worry about the "I took 4 this week and only 3 next week" crap. Your body doesn't know what day it is so dosing eod just means it's a constant flow of test coming in regular intervals. It's really not about hitting a weekly amount but just keeping blood levels stabile at the level you want.

The shorter esters will actually give you very slightly more true test compared to long esters due to having a lower ester weight. Basically more bang for your buck

Yeah i just read that aswell, more test % than the other ester testosterones So ive just been reading that the dosages for test p are a minimum of like 100mg ED or EOD, since im only planning on 50mg EOD, should i bump this up then? Cos i know my hpta will be supressed and if im using test i may aswell get it relatively high (not super high though) but to a degree that it will help with my muscle building? How much was your dosages bro? I do realise the higher my levels go the more chance for side effects so hence i dont wanna go 400-500mg+ a week range unless its a proper test focused cycle.

 

[bennoes]

My opinion would be to aim for 75 EOD. That averages to about 255-260 a week. 13 shot in a 10ml vial.

You just answered my question before i even asked it! haha so yeah i was thinking about 75mg each pin, what kind of test level would that bring me to? Mid 1000's?

 

[Dma378]

You just answered my question before i even asked it! haha so yeah i was thinking about 75mg each pin, what kind of test level would that bring me to? Mid 1000's?

That's a hard one to answer. On 500 E a week I would want 3000-4000 dependent in timing of testing and how long into cycle. I would GUESS it would be higher than that.

 

[booneman77]

Yeah i just read that aswell, more test % than the other ester testosterones So ive just been reading that the dosages for test p are a minimum of like 100mg ED or EOD, since im only planning on 50mg EOD, should i bump this up then? Cos i know my hpta will be supressed and if im using test i may aswell get it relatively high (not super high though) but to a degree that it will help with my muscle building? How much was your dosages bro? I do realise the higher my levels go the more chance for side effects so hence i dont wanna go 400-500mg+ a week range unless its a proper test focused cycle.

those doses are for a test only or test based (not base) cycle where you're using it as the main builder. In your case you're not doing that as epi will be your main one. Honestly, you're going to be shut down either way so it's up to you but like you said, with more compounds and higher doses come more potential for sides (as well as gains tho ha).

My prop only I started at 100 eod and worked up to 150 eod over 4 weeks but this was prop only. When I used it as a base, i ran it at 20-25ed and that was perfect. 50 is plenty for a base but if you want a little more you could def bump to 75 like dma said

 

[Dma378]

What did you use it as a base with Boone?

 

[booneman77]

You just answered my question before i even asked it! haha so yeah i was thinking about 75mg each pin, what kind of test level would that bring me to? Mid 1000's?

it totally depends on the person, the gear quality, etc. really no way to tell for sure. Don't forget, your running epi too so that won't raise your test but will be doing serious work too. You won't need a test level of 3000 to get big/cut in that case

 

[booneman77]

What did you use it as a base with Boone?

tren

Also ran trest as a test base with epi and that was my fav cycle I've ever run.

 

[Dma378]

I'm bout to kick off a Cyp with DMZ kicker. Pretty stoked.

 

[bennoes]

those doses are for a test only or test based (not base) cycle where you're using it as the main builder. In your case you're not doing that as epi will be your main one. Honestly, you're going to be shut down either way so it's up to you but like you said, with more compounds and higher doses come more potential for sides (as well as gains tho ha).

My prop only I started at 100 eod and worked up to 150 eod over 4 weeks but this was prop only. When I used it as a base, i ran it at 20-25ed and that was perfect. 50 is plenty for a base but if you want a little more you could def bump to 75 like dma said

Hmm thats interesting that you felt good at 20-25mg ED, maybe ill do the same then, or stick to 40mg EOD, and that should last me the whole vial for 5 weeks and then ill just use epi 5 weeks start at 30/40/40/50/50. Gains should be niceeeeeeeee

So when u did test p only cycle, it was only 4 weeks? did u run hcg with it? how much do u rate the cycle? and how was pct and recovery?

 

[booneman77]

I'm bout to kick off a Cyp with DMZ kicker. Pretty stoked.

logging it? I have both laying around so I'm interested how it goes.

 

[Dma378]

logging it? I have both laying around so I'm interested how it goes.

I have a training log going. Just going to keep it in there. Come get in there. Cycle starts in 2 weeks. Waiting on Clomid and Adex to land. Well and finish up something else I have going on.
16 weeks of Cyp
4 weeks off DMZ at 40 to kick
4 weeks of Mast Prop to finish at 75 EOD.

 

[Dma378]

In Workout Logs.

Dma's Never Satisfied Training Log

 

[booneman77]

Hmm thats interesting that you felt good at 20-25mg ED, maybe ill do the same then, or stick to 40mg EOD, and that should last me the whole vial for 5 weeks and then ill just use epi 5 weeks start at 30/40/40/50/50. Gains should be niceeeeeeeee So when u did test p only cycle, it was only 4 weeks? did u run hcg with it? how much do u rate the cycle? and how was pct and recovery?

yep just 4weeks. I have the log here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/225468-1st-cycle-short.html it's a short read with pretty much daily updates. It was my first log and early in my time here so there's like 2 ppl following so it's all my comments ha. You can read the whole thing in like 25min

No hcg. I actually have never used it a) because most of my cycles are shorter (8weeks or less) and b) never really saw a need for it. There's a lot of conflicting info on it so I've just stuck to what I know works for me.

Pct was a breeze. I was a little tired the first week or so as things began to level out but felt like a champ after a couple weeks and 100% by the end. Same with my trest/epi cycle. That was actually the best oct I've ever had. Felt like a champ from day one and even set pr's 4 and 8 weeks post cycle. A good pct makes all the difference

 

[booneman77]

I have a training log going. Just going to keep it in there. Come get in there. Cycle starts in 2 weeks. Waiting on Clomid and Adex to land. Well and finish up something else I have going on. 16 weeks of Cyp 4 weeks off DMZ at 40 to kick 4 weeks of Mast Prop to finish at 75 EOD.

awesome. I'm in

 

[AscendoTuum]

Yep that's a pretty solid plan. 50mg eod is what I would do. Don't worry about the "I took 4 this week and only 3 next week" crap. Your body doesn't know what day it is so dosing eod just means it's a constant flow of test coming in regular intervals. It's really not about hitting a weekly amount but just keeping blood levels stabile at the level you want.

The shorter esters will actually give you very slightly more true test compared to long esters due to having a lower ester weight. Basically more bang for your buck

Interesting - propionate weighs about 65 g/mol (~40%) less than enanthate… given total mol weight is almost 400 that's not as huge a deal but still significant. Definitely a point to consider!