Msten EpiAndro cycle questions?

dbl38

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My original plan was to run Msten/ EpiAndro for 8 weeks with the Epi for 8 and the Msten for 6, but I am second guessing the length of it.

EpiAndro 300/300/400/400/400/500/500/500
Msten 10/20/20/20/20/20

I'm not worried about the length of the Epi, but the Msten seems to have so many mixed reviews on dosage and sides, and I would rather have a solid plan then to cut it short because I feel like crap for weeks or blowing a tendon from being to dry.

I have my supports in a row and a solid PCT ready.

Anybody got any experience or real input?
 
McCrew530

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Both doses look rather standard man I would run the msten the last 6 weeks vs the first though. I havent ran msten before so I can not give a personal account but I dont think that Msten is on the same level as epistane in terms of joint dryness.
 

dbl38

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That was my plan to have the Andro kicked in and then start the Msten. I've run Epistane many times with other stacks and I've had perfect cycle's and tolerable ones. I just can't find a lot of info that says "do it like this".
 
McCrew530

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That was my plan to have the Andro kicked in and then start the Msten. I've run Epistane many times with other stacks and I've had perfect cycle's and tolerable ones. I just can't find a lot of info that says "do it like this".
Yea I just find that seeing what the general guidelines say and going from there is the best way to go. If you have never ran Msten I would say that starting at 10mg is a good idea Epiandro is a mild compound but should help with the lethargy as well as work synergistically with the Msten to help with the recomp effects
 

dbl38

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That's the plan! I may be the one that has to tell everybody what's up with it I just like to be over prepared and so far that's worked out well for me.
 
McCrew530

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That's the plan! I may be the one that has to tell everybody what's up with it I just like to be over prepared and so far that's worked out well for me.
Well brother if you log it ill follow it. I have a few bottles of each and The company i rep for Platinum Nutra makes a transdermal Epiandro that I am looking to use as a test base in place of trest.
 

dbl38

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I've got about 5 weeks before I start and I've got a ton of both Msten and Andro so maybe a mini log. I've logged before with no love so I just do it for myself.
 
McCrew530

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I've got about 5 weeks before I start and I've got a ton of both Msten and Andro so maybe a mini log. I've logged before with no love so I just do it for myself.
Give me a mention and ill link up man.
 

dbl38

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I'm looking for an ad on for blood pressure and a decent AI that is low dose for flexibility. I don't know that I'll use an AI, but it's good to have around.
 
yates84

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I'm looking for an ad on for blood pressure and a decent AI that is low dose for flexibility. I don't know that I'll use an AI, but it's good to have around.
Exemestane for an ai and Carditone is a great addition To an all in one cycle support
 

dbl38

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Ok so my AI is in the mail (Exemestane) so all I have to do now is watch the calendar and pick my start date, some time at the beginning of April. I really wish I had more reviews on this so I could better understand the dosage for the EpiAndro? I am simply going with its comparison to PP Andro Hard, I really think its a little different than Stano. I have seen Msten compared to Epistane and even Sdrol. I'm going to lean more towards it being similar to Epi.
 

dbl38

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So I did more homework on Msten and if your looking for information about it look up methylstenbolone and that opens up pretty much everything you need to know about it.
I'm going kick things off in about 3weeks and I'll let you know. One thing funny I found with the EpiAndro I have is from two different companies, is the one from IML is half the dose of the other, but has DHB in it for the delivery system; for those who may not know DHB is the grape fruit effect.
 

PatMcGroin

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TUDCA is far superior to thistle...not even close. Anyhow- Isn't EpiAndro simply Stano? If it is...you need to up that dosage. I run 800-1000mg of Stano. Could be wrong but I thought it was.
 
McCrew530

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TUDCA is far superior to thistle...not even close. Anyhow- Isn't EpiAndro simply Stano? If it is...you need to up that dosage. I run 800-1000mg of Stano. Could be wrong but I thought it was.
It converts to DHT just like stano but you dont need as much
 

dbl38

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I think that from what I have read that they have similiar result, but EpiAndro is 3b-Hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol,17-one and Stanozane is 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one which is a different compound from my understanding. I looked into it the best I could "Google" and they are different. I really liked Stano, but EpiAndro is closer to PP AndroHard from my understanding and that was awesome! I do feel that the Andro may have been a bit underdosed that was why I am shooting for 500mgs at the top end with it. I think that the Msten will do it's job for size and strength while the Andro will hopefully have me feeling fine during the run. I ordered some Tudca earlier today so I'm covered. One question I had was if Tudca has a Taurine base to it would that help with backpumps?
 

drew18

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Does anyone know where I could get the best deal on these 2 products?
 

dbl38

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About to start things off this Monday and I'm fairly sure I've gotten everything in line. I'm finishing up a two week keto diet so that I can run CKD throughout and hopefully pull off a great recomp out of it. I'll keep up with this so I can spread some info along the way.
 

karianns

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Run those for 4-5 weeks as kickstart for 12 week test e.
 
yates84

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Does anyone know where I could get the best deal on these 2 products?
OL has the best deal on tudca, hands down. You can get on amazon and buy taurine in bulk. I bought a kilo of taurine last time real cheap!
 

dbl38

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I've picked up so many supports for this one I may have to adjust my calories for the caps! I'm going to get some Bovine Gelatin today to see if it helps smooth out the joints. I've had a few Epi cycles that I thought would cripple me!
 

karianns

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Try curcumin (also good for liver) and Triple Flex (Glucosamine/Chondroitin and MSM)
 

dbl38

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Thanks for the heads up on the curcumin I've been curious about it. I've found carb cycling helps with inflammation a lot. I'm going to tear though about 5000gm tomorrow! I've been below 30 a day for the past 13 days.
 

dbl38

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With TUDCA having taurine attached to it would that have an effect on taurine dosing in a cycle? What Im wondering is would the standard 5-10mgs of taurine on cycle have a negative impact on the UDCA effectiveness and the liver?
 

dbl38

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I thought I would add some info in here for peter01

I'm starting my cycle in the morning with EpiAndro and Msten
Epi Andro-300/400/400/400/500/500/500/500 or 600 I'm going to feel these weeks out with dosage
Msten 10/20/20/20/20/20 I'll feel this on one out as well going higher or lower depending on sides
On cycle-
Lcheek cycle armor
Taurine 5-10mgs
Tudca
Multi
Fish oil
Cissus
Bovine gelatin
ZMA
Hawthorne
Maybe Saw palmetto
Exemstane if needed

PCT-
Torem 120/90/60/60 (I have Nolva on hand if?)
Lcheecks 1-AD
DAA
Reduce XT
Cycle Armor

I'm going to recomp and just enjoy this one and see how it goes I've cycled a dozen or so times so I think I got things in order.

My workout's are generally a hybrid of PHAT depending on how things are moving, I'm 45 and my joints are a big priority in my workouts.
I'm 210 today at about 10% bf at 6'2" and I run a CKD diet because that's what seems to treat me the best and I can easily add or subtract cals that way.
My bench is at about 305 (I killed it with a high volume split)
I squat around 350 although I've stuck around 315 for 5 over the past several months
Dead lift I can pull in the 400's

anything else feel free to ask..................
 

dbl38

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I'm off and running this morning and I do wish IML's EpiAndro was dosed higher I've got Androvar for part of this which is 100mg so that will help.
 

dbl38

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The delivery system is the ole "graped fruit" which may or may not do anything? I researched it a bit and couldn't find anything that said hell yeah this works! But I will start mixing them as I increase the dose.
 

dbl38

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Day 2 at 300mg EpiAnd and that very cool sense of well being along with that overall "buzzing" has kicked in! I get the feeling this is going to be an awesome ride.
 

dbl38

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I've wondered how gains would be on supports alone. @ peter01 is your strength moving?
 
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dbl38

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That's the one thing I found that seems consistent with other logs is that Msten kicks in quickly
 

dbl38

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So far day 4 and vascularity is up and strength and endurance is up, truly I just feel good.
 

dbl38

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No I'm on 300mg EpiAndro for another few days then I'll bump to 400 for a week then start the Msten.
 

dbl38

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This has been a tough past few days, my girlfriends mother passed away yesterday and we have been taking care of her the past few weeks and she moved on thankfully. She had been fighting cancer for some time and for me it's a relief because she was suffering.
I will back to the gym today at some point it's hard to duck out on the situation at hand, some people don't truly get my "therapy" and the need to burn off my BS in the gym.
I my leaning out already which makes me realize that I need to sit down and count calories so that I can take them up. I have started carb backloading which I enjoy and this will allow me to up my total calories over the week, but will take out my over total refeed calories so I hope that will keep the recomp effect in place and not just a cut.

I have spent some time reading through the forums and responses to some questions and I'm not a doctor nor an expert on any of this, but some of these threads just make you wonder about people. I can say that it makes me thankful that some people are here that have done their homework and are truly helpful for those who just want to learn.
 

dbl38

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I am amazed that the strength is coming on and the endurance kill the weights feeling is definitely there!
Vascularity has kicked in and I'm leaning out. I haven't been able to weigh on an accurate scale so not real sure about it.
 

dbl38

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peter01 I can't wait to throw the Msten on this!
I bumped the EpiAndro to 400mgs today and was back on a normal schedule today.
Did legs today
Squat- 4x3 topped out at 285 (I've been babying my knee it did something funny last week in wraps)
Deads- 4x3 topped out at 375 I'll be moving back into the 400's in a week or so
Leg press- 4x6
Stiff leg- 4x6
Hip thrust-4x6
Calves- just beat the crap out of the poor bastards!!!

I weighed in at 209 which is up from my keto water drop, but I was able to get my belt a notch tighter which tells me I'm recomping perfectly and it's day 8 out of 56 so this should be awesome!
My strength feels very balanced in that I'm not PRing it up, but the weight feels comfortable and thats what I'm looking for!
 

dbl38

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Not much to say about the day except I feel great! The strength is slowly coming on with awesome recovery!
I can see the EpiAndro screwing with my sleep in the long run so I may bump up the ZMA a bit (I don't take a full dose I can't wake up when I do). It could be stress?
I'm curious to see what 600mg is like, but that may be over kill.
I'll bump to 500 soon enough and from what I've read the 3rd week is where it starts.
 

dbl38

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Killed legs this morning!
Smoothly topped squats 250x10!
This will give me a chance to gauge recovery if I can move tomorrow.
We've got the funeral this afternoon so.......
 
Jebrook

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Subbed in. I'm running the same compounds in a month. In to see your results!
 

dbl38

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Jebrook glad your in, let me know if have any questions or anything that could help.
 
Jebrook

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Jebrook glad your in, let me know if have any questions or anything that could help.
Which epi-andro product did you use and how is it as a test base? Any lethargy issues. When I did 4 weeks Msten @ 20 I had lethargy bad. I used dermacrine and it helped some but not completely. Hope to avoid this issue next time around.
 

dbl38

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I'm using IML EpiAndro and Androvar I start the Msten Monday.
 

dbl38

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Insane comfort food after the funeral, gotta love southern tradition!
Feeling good today legs are a little tender, but nothing like I would have thought.
Going in a few for volume work on chest and triceps. I'm thoroughly carb loaded so I should be strong! Jebrook what was your experience like with Msten?
 
Jebrook

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Insane comfort food after the funeral, gotta love southern tradition!
Feeling good today legs are a little tender, but nothing like I would have thought.
Going in a few for volume work on chest and triceps. I'm thoroughly carb loaded so I should be strong! Jebrook what was your experience like with Msten?
It was a pretty decent run. My strongest compound to date. I was hit early on by lethargy and back pumps. If I would've taken my taurine from the outset and been consistent it probably would've helped a lot but I kept forgetting doses. I used dermacrine for lethargy and could definitely tell when I missed a dose as well. Everything else I dosed consistently everyday. It kicked in fast, like end of first week or so. My work volume probably doubled. I didn't go heavy or attempt any pr's due to préexisting shoulder issue but I feel like the strength increase was there for pr's. I gained ten lbs in first two weeks of clean eating. Muscle density definitely increased. No extra vascularity but I wasn't expecting it to. I just wanted solid mass. During third week diet was extremely lacking and sleep deprived due to an out of country wedding to attend. Also no workouts for five days. Luckily only lost a lb but it slowed my progress. The last week and a half I only gained 3 lbs. overall finished up twelve pounds of pretty solid mass. In 2 week of pct and still up 12 and starting to see some recomposition already because I cut Cals back to new maintenance. Overall I feel good about it but am exited for the next one. There will be no distractions or traveling. My goal for the next is 15-20.
 

dbl38

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Back pumps suck! I started taurine with the EpiA and I'll run it all the way through, I've had them and I'm not about to go through it with this!
Do you think my thoughts on starting with 10mg and sliding into 20 will help for a smoother run for 6weeks or just go 20 and go with it? I've always ramped up looking for the sweet spot.
 
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Jebrook

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Back pumps suck! I started taurine with the EpiA and I'll run it all the way through, I've had them and I'm not about to go through it with this!
Do you think my thoughts on starting with 10mg and sliding into 20 will help for a smoother run for 6weeks or just go 20 and go with it? I've always ramped up looking for the sweet spot.
I just did 10 for like the first 3-4 days then ramped it up. Since you're already "on" you oughta slide into real nice. Maybe just a few days at ten and bump up if all feels well. Six weeks oughta do you good. Wish my first Msten run lasted 6. Felt like I never peaked on it. Excited to see your gains!
 

dbl38

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That's what I was wondering about the "peak" I've had some cycles I didn't want to end and others I was ready to finish. I'm not looking for 50lbs on this, just good comfortable gains!
 

dbl38

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I've been eating like crap for days and I'm ready to get back on a normal schedule!
I'll kick things off tomorrow with 10mgs Msten for a few days and bump the EpiAndro to 500mgs.
 

dbl38

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Day one of Msten and 500mgs of EpiAndro
Aggression was way up today along with libido. The aggressive part kinda sucks because I was border line dickhead at the end of the day.
I am hardening out like crazy, but strength was lagging today. I may be expecting to much from lifts that I haven't pushed in weeks.
Squats-5x4
Deads-4x4 dropped the last set for patience
Leg sled- 5x5
Stiff leg DL 5x5
Hip thrust 3x10
Calves 4x20 4x12
My grip strength is way up so that's a plus
 

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