First Epistane Cycle

[lukinosnake]

Hi guys. I will start shortly my Havoc cycle and I would like to share with you my plan.
This is my first cycle. I have been planning it last year, however my health and my the amount of travels for work did not allowed me to feel relaxed and reeady to focus every second of my day about training,

Background: I am 23 years old, 185lb, 180cm. I have been training for 4 years already using plenty of supplements.
I am eating about 3500 kcal per day and I would like to do a clean bulk.

The cycle will be as below:

Havoc:
20-30-30-40

Pct:
Nolva 20/20/20/20
Test Powder as directed by the company.
Sup3r Pct 0/0/4/4/4/4

Support Supplements:
Animal Flex
Optimen
Cycle Support by AI
Liv 52 2 caps twice a day

I will start the liv 52 and the cycle support 5 days before to start the cycle.
My main concer is regarding the Havoc itself. Besically I got it last year and it does not have any expiry date on it. The comapny I used is famous in UK and has tons of good review about the havoc they sell. Is it still good.

I apologise in advance for the horrible mistakes I have made. English is not my first language.

What do you think about this cycle?

 

[nbshazeezee]

**** I would just buy two bottles and do 30/40/40/40/40/50

****s cheap as hell anyway.

 

[yates84]

Epistane doses are very low, I would start at at least 30 and go up from there. 40mg is the usual sweet spot. Also, taper the nolva down. Run it 20/20/10/10. I wouldn't worry about your epistane being too old, as long as it is kept out of the sunlight and in stable temperatures it will be good for a long time

 

[lukinosnake]

Thank you very much for your reply, How do I temper it if the caps are only 20mg each. I was thinking to break them, but they are so small I am not sure if this is possible.
Regarding the dosage I have only one bottle, therefore the maximum is 3 caps per day. Would make sense start 20 mg for first 5 day, then 14 days 30mg and then 10 days 40mg?

 

[dbrock504]

Thank you very much for your reply, How do I temper it if the caps are only 20mg each. I was thinking to break them, but they are so small I am not sure if this is possible. Regarding the dosage I have only one bottle, therefore the maximum is 3 caps per day. Would make sense start 20 mg for first 5 day, then 14 days 30mg and then 10 days 40mg?

No. Taper down like suggested. Cut the pill in half

 

[Tabascoonall]

Im running spur pct right now i have it set up 4/4/3/3/2/1 just throwing it out there. also recommend running 40 for another week or two, it starts to kick in week 2 1/2-3 and i wish i started 40 earlier. just my 2 cents.

 

[dbrock504]

Im running spur pct right now i have it set up 4/4/3/3/2/1 just throwing it out there. also recommend running 40 for another week or two, it starts to kick in week 2 1/2-3 and i wish i started 40 earlier. just my 2 cents.

Really? I've been at 45 since day 8 and haven't noticed anything. I'm in last week (week 6). I think the Tren is what's working and not the epi. Haven't noticed any strength or "epi" gainz

 

[yates84]

Really? I've been at 45 since day 8 and haven't noticed anything. I think the Tren is what's working and not the epi. Haven't noticed any strength or "epi" gainz

My first cycle I started epi at 45mg and ran it there straight through. Ran tren at 90 mg straight through. I started seeing results around the end of the second week

 

[dbrock504]

My first cycle I started epi at 45mg and ran it there straight through. Ran tren at 90 mg straight through. I started seeing results around the end of the second week

Ya I'm doing DermaTREN at 90mg for 60 days. Have bad sweats and all the sides of tren, but haven't noticed the epi at all and I'm in last week

 

[Tabascoonall]

Really? I've been at 45 since day 8 and haven't noticed anything. I'm in last week (week 6). I think the Tren is what's working and not the epi. Haven't noticed any strength or "epi" gainz

I went 30/30/45/45/45/45 i wish i out one of the 30 and put in 45, but it being my first cycle i was iffy about it. I didn't really notice anything till week 3 and a half then just weight kept jumping and strength went just dumb high

 

[dbrock504]

I went 30/30/45/45/45/45 i wish i out one of the 30 and put in 45, but it being my first cycle i was iffy about it. I didn't really notice anything till week 3 and a half then just weight kept jumping and strength went just dumb high

Gah dang. See I am doing 30/45/45/45/45/45. Haven't increased 10 lbs on any lifts. I am cutting though and have gained 2 lbs, so it's working just not like it does for some.

 

[Tabascoonall]

Gah dang. See I am doing 30/45/45/45/45/45. Haven't increased 10 lbs on any lifts. I am cutting though and have gained 2 lbs, so it's working just not like it does for some.

Dang man. Yeah all 3 major lifts went up at least over 30lb. You are cutting though so that does play a factor. I was just eating excess kcals

 

[lukinosnake]

Just an update:
I decided to start my cycle low as I think I am prone to hair loss, therefore I want to see what happen and for my peace of mind,
I will do the cycle as following: 20mg x6days / 30mg x14days / 40mg x9days
I started cycle support AI (2scoops) and liv52 (4 caps) 7 days before to start EPi
I am at the 3rd day at 20 mg.
I do not if it is normal but I feel very heavy on my liver.
I drink at least 3.5-4, but normally 5-6 litres per day.
Why do I feel this little pain? Is it normal?

 

[lukinosnake]

Bump

 

[lukinosnake]

Anyone?

 

[Driven2lift]

How does it feel "heavy on your liver"

Its very unlikely a fee days into 20mg you have liver concerns

 

[lukinosnake]

How does it feel "heavy on your liver"

Its very unlikely a fee days into 20mg you have liver concerns

I know it's weird. It feels like there is a light pressure on the that part. It reminds me the feeling I get to the stomach when I eat seriously to much. I feel it full, puffy, and very heavy.

 

[Driven2lift]

BP fine?

Urine clear?

Drinking lots?

Appetite ok?

 

[lukinosnake]

Urine clear.
I am drinking 5-6 litres of water per day.
Appetite is great as usually. Craving sweets to be honest. The strange thing is that normally I do not.
BP I think is fine. From time to time I get some mild headache tho.

 

[Driven2lift]

Urine clear. I am drinking 5-6 litres of water per day. Appetite is great as usually. Craving sweets to be honest. The strange thing is that normally I do not. BP I think is fine. From time to time I get some mild headache tho.

I really doubt there is a liver issue then TBH.

If concerned try TUDCA

If it persists start PCT

 

[lukinosnake]

Now i am on day 10.
I changed the dosage to 30mg per day as this feeling come and goes. I noticed I can feel it the next 2 hours after I take the pill.
I am also thinking I may be paranoic and it is all in my mind, but I am confused. Anyhow, apart feom that no side effect at all so far.

 

[lukinosnake]

Another update.....

The liver pain did not show up anymore, however at the end of the cycle I experienced some brutal lower back pumps.
I decided to stop the cycle early. 27 days in total. I gained 5.2kg and I got much stronger. I did not have any joint pain tho.
The last 3 days I drunk only 2-3 litres per day. I know, i know. I have been stupid, but I have worked 14hours per day with clients and only 1h break. I did not managed to do it.
Anyhow, I started my pct today and tonight I still have crazy pain. I am still using 6g per day or taurine, cycle support etc etc.... what should I do?

 

[jason267]

might be a bit too much water in your system! As long as your piss'n clear, then you are fine. Keep hydrated for sure, but dont force yourself to drink insane amounts.
Your liver is fine, on my first cycle, ANY little thing i noticed, i would freak out about.
Once you finish this first cycle, you will realize that many things are exaggerated.
Take cycle support, fish oil, and a multi...and you will be fine!
Best of luck man!!!

 

[lukinosnake]

Thank you very much jason267!