Test C/ Tbol- First Cycle, Critique me.

[TonyGunsling]

I am about to put my order in and just want some final approval/critiques.

-2 250mg/10ml of Test Cyp
-100 Tabs Tbol
-20 25mg Exemestane (on hand)
-50 50mg Nolvadex

This will be my first cycle. And im looking for more of an edge than others putting in their time in the kitchen and gym.
My plan
Test- 400mg/wk 1-10
Tbol- 15-40mg/day wks 1-4
Exemestane- 12.5 E3D (beginning whens signs show)


PCT-7 days after last pin.
Nolva 50/50/25/25
DAA 3mg/day
Creatine Mono 5mg/day
Erase pro starting at 3rd week of PCT to further prevent estrogen rebound.

 

[TonyGunsling]

I am just confused as to when I should use Exemestane, or if I should at all. Nolva should cover any estro problems that could occur right?

 

[Travenberger]

12.5mg aromasin EOD if needed

 

[grinnell27]

I wouldn't bother with nolva during cycle, just an AI.

Use nolva just for your PCT.

 

[TonyGunsling]

I wouldn't bother with nolva during cycle, just an AI.

Use nolva just for your PCT.

Would you suggest Aromasin at 12.5 EOD as well?

 

[grinnell27]

Would you suggest Aromasin at 12.5 EOD as well?

If run it at 12.5 every 3 days personally. It's half life is around 24-27hours. If taken everyday it would completely stop estrogen, don't want that. It's quite strong so even eod I feel is a little much. It's preference though really. Is start at e3d to begi with and change it if you need to.

 

[TonyGunsling]

If run it at 12.5 every 3 days personally. It's half life is around 24-27hours. If taken everyday it would completely stop estrogen, don't want that. It's quite strong so even eod I feel is a little much. It's preference though really. Is start at e3d to begi with and change it if you need to.

Also, would you recommend starting it on day 1, day 3, or wait for signs?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Also, would you recommend starting it on day 1, day 3, or wait for signs?

wait for signs, estrogen is needed alongside testosterone to build muscle and if it isn't doing any harm there's no need to tank it

 

[TonyGunsling]

Thanks Quads_of_stee

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

also if you are using the new erase pro start it in week 2 of pct. This new version takes a while to get into full effect because it does not use the suicidal AI arimistane. Creatine mono can be taken at all times of the day. in fact SNS just released a 1.2kg tub for $15, or look into CreMax by performax Labs. other than that it looks solid!

 

[TonyGunsling]

also if you are using the new erase pro start it in week 2 of pct. This new version takes a while to get into full effect because it does not use the suicidal AI arimistane. Creatine mono can be taken at all times of the day. in fact SNS just released a 1.2kg tub for $15, or look into CreMax by performax Labs. other than that it looks solid!

Awesome! Ill be looking into it.

A new question came up. As i mostly know Dbol in terms of size gain/weight gain. Tbol isnt supposed to produce as much water retention. How much weight could i expect from it in four weeks? I have to be extra cautious when it comes to blowing up.

 

[TonyGunsling]

Obviously I want the tbol for the kickstart. I just cant blow up the obvious amount. Avoiding job problems.

 

[TonyGunsling]

Bump

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

I would help but I know nothing of tbol, I'm sorry

 

[MTPMJM]

T-Bol is VERY similar to Halodrol (at least chemically, and to my knowledge also in its effects). I had a buddy run T-bol kicker in a test cycle and he didnt notice the Tbol until the middle of week 2, whereas D-Bol is IMMEDIATE water retention. H-drol will also pop up around that time in terms of effects. SO based on my experience and his, it wont jump you CRAZY huge like dianabol at all, it will gradually promote gains from week 2-4, which by that time hopefully the test is kickin in and you can ride the wave

 

[TonyGunsling]

T-Bol is VERY similar to Halodrol (at least chemically, and to my knowledge also in its effects). I had a buddy run T-bol kicker in a test cycle and he didnt notice the Tbol until the middle of week 2, whereas D-Bol is IMMEDIATE water retention. H-drol will also pop up around that time in terms of effects. SO based on my experience and his, it wont jump you CRAZY huge like dianabol at all, it will gradually promote gains from week 2-4, which by that time hopefully the test is kickin in and you can ride the wave

Cool. I did use halodrol in the past. And i did not gain much on it. Which is good news for this cycle.. Granted i wasnt lifting for hypertrophy...

I will try and update here when i find out how this works for me.

 

[RickyBlobby]

I didn't see ANYTHING on tbol VISIBLY at 40mg. Strength- definitely. Bumped up to 60mg got visible results (today is my last day, went 5 weeks at 40 didn't see anything visibly until the last week when I bumped up to 60)
Imo if you have 100 10mg tabs save them and get more. I'd run 40/40/60/60/60/60 I you're trying to somewhat stay under the radar. 40/40/60/60/80/80 for serious gainzzzz

 

[TonyGunsling]

So you did not see any gains.. but did you weigh any more? how was your nutrition as well?

 

[RickyBlobby]

Size wise I didn't really notice anything until I bumped it up to 60. Second day at 60 it started becoming obvious I was on steroids.
I was up 4.5 lbs but it didn't really show plus the pumps weren't there like they are at 60

 

[TonyGunsling]

UPDATE:

Im on day 9 of my cycle.

Test cyp 200mg x 2/wk
Tbol 20mg x 2/daily

Funny thing is! Im up 10lbs already!!! I dont feel like i look like it... But the scale says it. Strength seems up or starting to go up.

Hardly getting enough cals and still mad weight gains.

Could it be tbol?? Or what!?

 

[grinnell27]

UPDATE: Im on day 9 of my cycle. Test cyp 200mg x 2/wk Tbol 20mg x 2/daily Funny thing is! Im up 10lbs already!!! I dont feel like i look like it... But the scale says it. Strength seems up or starting to go up. Hardly getting enough cals and still mad weight gains. Could it be tbol?? Or what!?

Possibly a large majority of that will be water and glycogen... You may be looking at 1-2lb in muscle... But varies in people genetics etc

 

[TonyGunsling]

Possibly a large majority of that will be water and glycogen... You may be looking at 1-2lb in muscle... But varies in people genetics etc

From what i understood. I wouldnt have much water retention... Which is why i choose tbol over dbol. I mean. At least it working! I was skeptical bc this is my first run.

(But if this is dbol, im gonna be pi$$ed!)

 

[grinnell27]

From what i understood. I wouldnt have much water retention... Which is why i choose tbol over dbol. I mean. At least it working! I was skeptical bc this is my first run. (But if this is dbol, im gonna be pi$$ed!)

You will still get some, but it won't be as bad as dbol like you said. If you said 10lb in 9 days that's just over 1lb per day. That couldn't be pure muscle obviously.. Likely a mix of water and glycogen... Just watch sodium intake 2g is fine, if I ever go over 2g my water retention is crazy! Even when not on cycle.

 

[TonyGunsling]

You will still get some, but it won't be as bad as dbol like you said. If you said 10lb in 9 days that's just over 1lb per day. That couldn't be pure muscle obviously.. Likely a mix of water and glycogen... Just watch sodium intake 2g is fine, if I ever go over 2g my water retention is crazy! Even when not on cycle.

So right now, if im gaining approx a pound per day, and my blood pressure has shot up from 110/72 to 156/82 (100 beats per min though) would you recommend i start my AI now or wait for other estrogenic sides?

 

[grinnell27]

So right now, if im gaining approx a pound per day, and my blood pressure has shot up from 110/72 to 156/82 (100 beats per min though) would you recommend i start my AI now or wait for other estrogenic sides?

I would run it your entire cycle. Help keeps water bloat down which is a plus.

Not to mention estrogen of course.

What you got for AI? I can't remember if you said

 

[TonyGunsling]

I would run it your entire cycle. Help keeps water bloat down which is a plus. Not to mention estrogen of course. What you got for AI? I can't remember if you said

Exemestane. I just didnt want to jump the gun too early being we do need some estrogen. But this much bloat and bp up already i was thinking it was time. I was thinking 12.5 mg tablet e3d.

 

[grinnell27]

Arimidex. I just didnt want to jump the gun too early being we do need some estrogen. But this much bloat and bp up already i was thinking it was time. I was thinking 1 tablet e3d.

You will be fine man. E3d is prob perfect if your not susceptible to gyno. Just don't run the dose too high. .5 every 3days is fine.

 

[AscendoTuum]

Great info here - looking forward to see how things progress after the initial bump. Hopefully there's 2 or 3 lbs of lean mass in there somewhere already!

 

[TonyGunsling]

3 week update:

Coming up to the end of my third week. 6th pin of 200mg was yesterday. Strength has gone up. I have been mostly using the wendler 531 program for the past year so its easy to see numbers.

Squat- accidentally added ten, then 20 from original weight and still hit numbers.
Rowing- more than an olympic athlete!
Bench- my weak point... Became easier.
Shoulder press- my 5 set became a 10.

Weight gain... 10 days 10 pounds.. Then i started taking my arimistane. 12.5mg E3D. And i think that put a stop to water retention.
I dropped .5 lbs at the end of week 2. So i am increasing cals by 250 a day now.

Stay tuned!

 

[bennoes]

Subbed for the periodic updates! Keen to follow your cycle brother

 

[TonyGunsling]

Day 1 of week 4 7th pin. And possibly my 4th dose of exemestane. I have grown a little concerned that gyno may still be on its way.

My nipples are definitely sorer than they would be naturally. Not sore to the light touch. But if I press I can tell.

Will I still experience some soreness even though I am taking my AI? Should I increase my dose from E3D to EOD?

 

[bennoes]

Day 1 of week 4

7th pin.
And possibly my 4th dose of arimistane. I have grown a little concerned that gyno may still be on its way. My nipples are definitely sorer than they would be naturally. Not sore to the light touch. But if I press I can tell.

Will I still experience some soreness even though I am taking my AI? Should I increase my dose from E3D to EOD?

Just double checking bro, u said arimistane here but previously have said arimidex (post #26) and also exemestane (first post), which AI are u using?

 

[TonyGunsling]

Just double checking bro, u said arimistane here but previously have said arimidex (post #26) and also exemestane (first post), which AI are u using?

****. Well its exemestane. 25mg. Thanks for reading through my posts n checking. Exemestane is the same as aromasin and i got that mixed up with arimidex... Or exemestane and arimistane...

 

[bennoes]

****. Well its exemestane. 25mg. Thanks for reading through my posts n checking. Exemestane is the same as aromasin and i got that mixed up with arimidex... Or exemestane and arimistane...

No worries man, in that case, aromasin is an AI ive heard great things about, if your nips are worrying you maybe change it to EOD, or add in Nolva instead if u think its gyno as it is commonly used on cycle for gyno. How are your joints and libido? If they are both bad thats a sign of too low estrogen and if thats the case then id go the Nolva route.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

stop playing with your damn nipples! Aggravation and irritation only help the process lol. A little more feeling than usual is fine, but any time they get itchy or very very sensitive take an increased dose of exem.

 

[TonyGunsling]

if your nips are worrying you maybe change it to EOD, or add in Nolva instead if u think its gyno as it is commonly used on cycle for gyno. How are your joints and libido? If they are both bad thats a sign of too low estrogen and if thats the case then id go the Nolva route.

My joints and libido are great. Thanks for the recommendations!

stop playing with your damn nipples! Aggravation and irritation only help the process lol. A little more feeling than usual is fine, but any time they get itchy or very very sensitive take an increased dose of exem.

Hahaha. Alright. I'll chill out!

 

[TonyGunsling]

Injection site question:

If I am just taking Test, twice per week, switching cheeks each time, would someone recommend a completely new site? Or am I not abusing that site?

 

[Shasow]

Butt cheek is quite big mate you can inject different areas of the same site especially the glutes.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Injection site question:

If I am just taking Test, twice per week, switching cheeks each time, would someone recommend a completely new site? Or am I not abusing that site?

you can move around on the cheeks (1" to the left, right, etc) or use ventroglutes

 

[TonyGunsling]

Update:

2nd pin of week 4 today. Went very well I thought. Aspirated and all and it looked like i was where I needed to be. Then after injecting. I pulled out and noticed a little blood in the syringe. Just enough that I couldn't see while aspirating. Got real worried I'd half die or something! But all turned out well!

Then I hit the gym. Chest day monday of course! Rotation just fell that way this week.. Weights feeling great in my hands. I would guesstimate my max is up around 30lbs already. And endurance for 5x10s after main lift is great.

Weekend check-up stats.
Up about 12-13 pounds now.
Blood pressure that jumped to 156/82 or whatever is now more under control. 130/80 was my most recent reading. Dont feel it beating out of my chest either. Increased water, decreased sodium and caffeine, started 1 baby aspirin a day and taking "cycle support" twice daily has helped BP tremendously!

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

looking good in here so far. When you hit an artery or vein you will know it. The BA will cause a coughing fit and it is not pleasant, start to break out in a cold sweat, get clammy. A little blood here and there when taking the needle out is common as you may have clipped something on the way in. The important thing is that you don't get the coughing fits.
it def is worrisome seeing blood in the needle lol.

 

[TonyGunsling]

Question: Weight gain - natural vs supernatural.

When bulking naturally. One should have a goal to gain .5 lbs per week. If they want to stay lean. Or 2 pounds per month. Most wouldn't recommend more than maybe 4 pounds per month.

What about while on cycle? What should ones goal be to gain lean mass? Or "dirty bulk"? For example, would a pound a week result in a lean bulk, or can you one do better?

I guess it always depends on the W's... Who is using, what they are using, how much, and what they do to increase size. Etc..

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[TonyGunsling]

Feeling very exhausted lately... Luckily I can squeeze out a workout on full energy first. But these last 3 days have been rest days cause I tweaked my left rotator most likely. And still only last half a day on good energy.

 

[grinnell27]

Question: Weight gain - natural vs supernatural.

When bulking naturally. One should have a goal to gain .5 lbs per week. If they want to stay lean. Or 2 pounds per month. Most wouldn't recommend more than maybe 4 pounds per month.

What about while on cycle? What should ones goal be to gain lean mass? Or "dirty bulk"? For example, would a pound a week result in a lean bulk, or can you one do better?

I guess it always depends on the W's... Who is using, what they are using, how much, and what they do to increase size. Etc..

Let me know what you guys think.

Difficult to anwser... I would say yes thats correct for natural.
With gear... I personally like to aim for 1-2lb a week. Just making sure i monitor water retention and fat. You can get lean while bulking if done correctly.

 

[TonyGunsling]

What about my exhaustion or lethargy that i am feeling after 5 or so hours of being awake? (Previous post)

 

[grinnell27]

What about my exhaustion or lethargy that i am feeling after 5 or so hours of being awake? (Previous post)

I get this... Not sure what causes it. Obviously if your still running orals that will play a big part. Can't remember if you are off orals now.

Try taking some melatonin at night to help you get deep restful sleep, it may be that?

 

[TonyGunsling]

I get this... Not sure what causes it. Obviously if your still running orals that will play a big part. Can't remember if you are off orals now. Try taking some melatonin at night to help you get deep restful sleep, it may be that?

Yeah I am off the orals now. Ended sunday, and afterwards is kind of when i have started to feel a little less rested... But Ive also been robbed shy of 8 hours of sleep per night this week. Maybe that..

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Yeah I am off the orals now. Ended sunday, and afterwards is kind of when i have started to feel a little less rested... But Ive also been robbed shy of 8 hours of sleep per night this week. Maybe that..

orals almost always cause lethargy for me. The could be a BP issue too. What works for me is 6-7hrs sleep and a 15-30min nap mid-day.

 

[AscendoTuum]

I take a ZMA supplement most nights anyway, lots have melatonin in there too. Would you want to wait for PCT for this and just use plain melatonin?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

i would keep using it if it helps you sleep