TREST Deca, MSTEN, EPI,TREN - With detailed bloodwork

[Johnblack]

Guys,

I'm going to try to give you guys a good review of the effects of these compounds. I recently discovered the privatemd labs thread, and I have decided to get blood work taken a few times before, during and after the cycle to know where I stand from a numbers standpoint. I'm a big fan of the science of performance enhancers, and I know a lot of you are into the numbers side of it too, so I'm hoping to provide you guys with some great data to use in your future research.

I'm planning to begin on Sunday. I'm planning to go 12 weeks, and the dates match up well for what I'm looking to do.

Me:
I'm 35, recently returning to the gym for 3 months after a long term break. I feel pretty good right now, my joints are ok (some knee soreness from frequent squatting). I'm 6'3 270 lbs (I'm not jacked or ripped by any means. 25% bf maybe?), my BP is about 110/60 with a 55-60 HR resting.

CYCLE:

week 1-12 - 300mg Trest Dec
week 1-4 - 20mg Msten
week 9-12 - 40mg Epi
week 9-12 - 90mg Tren

PCT: I have Ostarine, Tudca, LGI damage control, sup3r PCT, aromasin, creatine, joint support, letrozole, and toremifene for PCT/cycle support.

DIET: I've been eating pretty clean after some life changes so I'm pretty much only eating cottage cheese, greek yogurt, peanut butter, lean steak and chicken breast, juiced vegetable/fruits, whole grain pasta, whole grain bread, grilled veggies and the occasional salmon thrown in. I occasionally do cheat with high protein junk foods (chicken, burgers and burritos, not ice cream and cakes and stuff like that) when I feel weaker after periods of carb control. My drinking is very limited so its not an issue for diet/cycle purposes. I do smoke MJ and I'll probably cut it out since its counter to what I'm trying to do. I plan to continue with my normal diet since I'm looking for more of a lifestyle process instead of a competition or season.

Blood Work:
I'll be posting results of the first baseline blood work as soon as they are back. I plan to have blood work taken at the end of week 4 (to see the effects of oral Msten on my profile, and check my test levels before i stop the Msten. I will take blood work again at the end of week 8 just before I begin epi and tren so that i will have a baseline to check against at the end of week 12 so I can see my final numbers before PCT. I'll check the numbers again after PCT and hopefully they will be something close to my original blood work that ill post soon.

Ive been away from the gym for a long time and 3 months ago I reconnected with a cousin who had recently lost 50 lbs and was lifting weights in the gym again after a divorce. He told me about stronglifts 5x5 so I looked into it and I actually liked it. it was easy for me to keep track of the workouts with the App and the simplicity got me motivated to return to the gym at 35 after countless injuries. I've made it through 12 weeks of stronglifts and I feel the sticking point fast approaching where ill need a boost to keep me going. I feel that at age 35, I'm a good candidate for HRT, and this is just my own DIY method.

Hopefully, we can learn something interesting from this, so I wont be posting any training logs, because I don't think we need any more, and its nothing we haven't seen. I can't remember ever seeing a detailed log with the periodic blood work so I will be providing the numbers and I appreciate your participation if you have any opinions to add or comments. I'll do my part to keep up my end of the bargain. Thanks for your support.

 

[mgkoret]

Subbed.
Looks like a solid plan and you've done your homework. Looking forward to the results

 

[BCseacow83]

in for any and all lab work to help us see the effects of such a cycle. While not as "scientific" a test as testing each compound individually it does represent an all in type cycle typical of many users. Thanks for putting in the effort and cash and look forward to your results.

 

[yates84]

Subbed. Very interesting

 

[Johnblack]

I just got the blood drawn for the initial baseline. It was quick and easy. I took my paperwork from privatemd to labcorp, they asked for insurance and I told them it was prepaid. I didn't even show ID. They just took me back to the room, drew two vials, told me to have a good day. Took 5 minutes literally. Pretty simple process and the cost isn't bad. I highly recommend it.

Edited for Cycle feedback:

I considered adding more trest.. around 450mg/wk. Do you guys think 300mg is enough or am I low in the range of what people normally take for a long ester or trestolone?

 

[peter01]

Subbed. Interested to know your ai dosing to see how it affects your e levels.

 

[thehogsters]

Every one on the other board says to do 450 mg. I'm coming up on week 3 of trest D with diabolix and Dbold. The orals have kicked in like crazy. The trest D takes 3 to 5 weeks to kick in from what I was told.

 

[Johnblack]

Subbed. Interested to know your ai dosing to see how it affects your e levels.

I'm going to do letro for AI with a really light dose. Maybe .25mg ed? I may not even run it unless I see E issues

 

[Johnblack]

450MG is 3ml. I never pinned 3ML before. how is it?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I was told you will feel it as low as 75mg per week.. if you havnt done it before why not start out at a lower dose... trest D is no joke.

 

[Johnblack]

Team,

I have my results back. I'm going to cross post in the over 35 forum to get ideas about the numbers. I'm kind of embarrassed to show these numbers, because I really don't know what any of it means. I hope there is nothing in here that screams out "OMG YOU HAVE CANCER", or "damn you fat POS" but it would be nice to know. Anyway. here it goes:

The only thing that stood out was I felt my total Test was low, estradiol was high, and HDL actually got flagged as low. I told my father my Total cholesterol was 131 and he said that was a phenomenal number. I really don't understand it all but I'm sure one of you do. Thanks for looking guys.

 

[peter01]

John how has your first week treated you?

 

[Johnblack]

First week down without a hitch. I felt like I was on something from day two. The MSTEN is interesting so far. No negative side effects so far.

 

[peter01]

Good to hear. Keep us posted. I just got my own blood results back earlier this month. Planning on starting my first cycle this year and I am curious how each compound affects you. My current t-levels are on the low side (about 330) so most concerned about how the recovery goes for you.

 

[peter01]

Is this your first experience with these compounds?

 

[Johnblack]

Yes peter,

This is my first experience with these compounds. Everything is going well but my BP is a little high today. Combination of the compounds + poor meals i ate yesterday and the day before. I'm going to control the BP with diet. I don't think its an issue right now. I'll let you guys know in a few days

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I considered adding more trest.. around 450mg/wk. Do you guys think 300mg is enough or am I low in the range of what people normally take for a long ester or trestolone?

300mg is a good research dose to start. That's my research protocol right now and it's great. Going to bump to 450 soon. 600-700 each week would be the high end.

 

[Johnblack]

I'm approaching the end of Week 2. No major or unexpected side effects except increased BP, but its being controlled with low sodium diet. I am definitely shutdown, with the obvious signs.

When I first started with the msten, I could literally feel it flowing through my muscles, but that feeling has subsided, and now I feel pretty "normal" other than more aggressive thoughts (nothing violent or psychotic, more like thinking "i should slap this guy" for small things, like being in the squat rack and not squatting). I'm still on 300mg of trestolone and 20mg msten. I considered raising the MSTEN to 30mg, but I didn't want to get into that game of "chasing that initial feeling" so I stayed with 20mg. I'll keep you guys posted.

As far as gains, I'm getting stronger but I haven't really gained much scale weight, but I have gained muscle according to my scale (EatSmart Precision GetFit - probably not perfectly accurate, but its just a means for me to track progress).

The next blood work is due on Feb 9th so we're a little over 2 weeks away. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[yates84]

I'm approaching the end of Week 2. No major or unexpected side effects except increased BP, but its being controlled with low sodium diet. I am definitely shutdown, with the obvious signs.

When I first started with the msten, I could literally feel it flowing through my muscles, but that feeling has subsided, and now I feel pretty "normal" other than more aggressive thoughts (nothing violent or psychotic, more like thinking "i should slap this guy" for small things, like being in the squat rack and not squatting). I'm still on 300mg of trestolone and 20mg msten. I considered raising the MSTEN to 30mg, but I didn't want to get into that game of "chasing that initial feeling" so I stayed with 20mg. I'll keep you guys posted.

As far as gains, I'm getting stronger but I haven't really gained much scale weight, but I have gained muscle according to my scale (EatSmart Precision GetFit - probably not perfectly accurate, but its just a means for me to track progress).

The next blood work is due on Feb 9th so we're a little over 2 weeks away. I'll keep you guys posted.

You are allowed to smack the guy at the power rack not squatting.

 

[Wilko]

How's the bloat going? Trest is notorious for it, but it seems some experience it significantly whilst others barely notice it at all. Personally I was a goddamn marshmallow for a while. Most cite carb intake as the main culprit. Just curious how it's treating you thus far.

 

[Johnblack]

I haven't really noticed any bloat but I've been eating terribly this weekend so I'll let you know. As of today, (day 1 of week 3) the Trestolone has kicked in. By kicked in, I mean "Hello friend, I am Trestolone. Do you see that girl? Yes, you can have sex with her, and see that dude with her, you can beat him up no problem".

I've never felt anything like this, not even 600mg of test enanthate and 800mg boldenone. Trestolone at 300mg/week is amazing. I still have no side effects but an hour ago in the gym, I was preparing for a heavy set of overhead press, so I pressed it up expecting it to be tough and I swear, (no exaggeration) I got about 8 inches of air underneath my feet from the sheer upward force!! ROFL but seriously guys, this stuff is ridiculous. It has overtaken the msten like "move aside son, I got it from here". I'm really glad I didn't raise any of the doses. I don't think I could take anymore than what I'm on right now without some negative aspects.

Diet wise, I've been slacking for about a week, and eating fast food (burritos, pizza, etc), so I can say I am sufficiently carb loaded for about a week or two, LOL. I am going to the grocery store tomorrow and I'm going to stock up on lean meats and clean foods and get back to it. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[peter01]

That's great man! Glad its treating you well!

Looks like the letro is doing its job with the bloating.

 

[Wilko]

Yeah, that sounds about right. It almost becomes bothersome. I briefly played with 100mg ed. Admittedly foolish, but I was briefly prepared to impregnate the entirety of the world's female population. Keep it up, killer.

 

[Johnblack]

Ahh,

I forgot to tell you guys, I never did start the letro. I considered a lot of what I read and decided I would use letro only if I felt any E related sides, and as of right now, I'm having no issues. This trest dose feels like the sweet spot for me so far. I'll let you guys know if I start letro.

 

[yates84]

Ahh,

I forgot to tell you guys, I never did start the letro. I considered a lot of what I read and decided I would use letro only if I felt any E related sides, and as of right now, I'm having no issues. This trest dose feels like the sweet spot for me so far. I'll let you guys know if I start letro.

Very smart, wouldn't want to crash your estrogen

 

[thehogsters]

News is the new trest D will be 200 mg instead of 150!

 

[Johnblack]

I'm hoping for a longer ester of dienolone. I did a cycle of the oral version (Tren-E) and epi a few yrs back and I have never seen strength gains like that in my life. It gave me massive rise in BP but I have much better baseline BP now so I'll see how it is at the end of this cycle when I run it for the last 4 weeks.

EDIT: I guess I should let you guys know I'm up 8 lbs since 1/19. I've been stuffing my face with everything imaginable but I'll get back to proper foods soon.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I haven't really noticed any bloat but I've been eating terribly this weekend so I'll let you know. As of today, (day 1 of week 3) the Trestolone has kicked in. By kicked in, I mean "Hello friend, I am Trestolone. Do you see that girl? Yes, you can have sex with her, and see that dude with her, you can beat him up no problem".

I've never felt anything like this, not even 600mg of test enanthate and 800mg boldenone. Trestolone at 300mg/week is amazing.

Haha yeah man that's the feeling!

 

[heavylifter33]

Just subbing now. Would like to hear thoughts on trest deca.

You said you've seen almost no bloating. Would you wager it's because of your low sodium intake, or carb intake?

 

[thehogsters]

I did 315 4 times on incline bb bench today. I was only doing 275 5 times before this cycle. I'm right at and beating all pr now after 5 weeks of orals and 4 weeks of trest D at 450 mg. The best part is I don't feel like I'm going to die like on msten. Hell I fell better than ever! Long live the trest!

 

[Johnblack]

The trest deca is great stuff from what Ive seen so far. It makes me feel exactly the way I want to feel. I have not really noticed any bloat, but I generally stick to a very low sodium diet (think no externally added sodium). The 8 lbs I gained recently will probably drop off once I get back to a moderate carb diet.. I try to stay under 200g of carbs a day generally

 

[Chad Frazier]

Good run

 

[Johnblack]

Update: Beginning of Week 4 - Everything is proceeding nicely. I'm up roughly 15-20 lbs. Massive pumps from everyday activities. The back pumps are severe to the point where standing up in the kitchen long enough to juice some vegetables causes a serious lower back pump. I'm going to have to get some Taurine. I have never felt this way on any compound before. This trestolone is something to look into if you haven't tried it. I am definitely running this again and I already have the stuff for the next cycle. The trestolone + Msten combo likes me so far. Still no pimples or sore nipples whatsoever. I guess I got lucky with dosing. I really love this stuff, and I totally understand how people get into the "stay on forever mindset". I will come off though, not to worry.

Forgot to add, zero post injection pain so far. I'm totally shocked because everything I've ever taken gave me some sort of pain but this is painless going in and immediately after. This IM trestolone really is the nectar of the gods (for me anyway). I'm hoping it keeps working out well.

 

[yates84]

Yeah, I had to hide my trest my last cycle when it was over. Trest makes me feel like a god! Cycle looks good so far, keep up the good work

 

[peter01]

Johnblack - any updates? Its gotta be close to the end of your run by now.

 

[Johnblack]

Johnblack - any updates? Its gotta be close to the end of your run by now.

I'm closing in on week 11 beginning sunday. That's the start of epi and dienolone for 4 weeks. Everything is going well, no sides or issues. I did lower the calories and carbs a little bit to deal with the absurd pump. I'm going to get the bloodwork done tomorrow just before I begin the new orals. I'll post it when it comes in.

 

[peter01]

Good to hear its treating you well. I see you bumped it up from 12 weeks to 16. Always a good sign! Lol

How are you planning to bring in the dien? EOD or ED? By the way it might be better to save the epi for another time. The dien will prob overpower the epi.

So no sides to speak of huh? Very tempting...

 

[Johnblack]

Good to hear its treating you well. I see you bumped it up from 12 weeks to 16. Always a good sign! Lol

How are you planning to bring in the dien? EOD or ED? By the way it might be better to save the epi for another time. The dien will prob overpower the epi.

So no sides to speak of huh? Very tempting...

I'm doing oral epi and dienolone (the old tren). Some leftover stuff from a past cycle. I changed the timeline because I needed to have time for the longer ester to clear my system before the PCT. I start PCT 21 days after my last shot so I wanted to run the whole 4 weeks of epi/dien right up until the day before PCT begins. I know i'm pretty shutdown naturally, but the trest keeps everything in order. I should have said "I have no physical sides". I do have some emotional or mental side effects, which I attribute to increased aggression (no raging maniac, just easier to irritate), and some pretty aggressive thoughts. Things from the past that are long over will resurface and ill regret handling them the way I did, and wish I had another chance to respond. (I should have KOd that guy, etc) those types of things. Its manageable, and I only brought it up to give a full overview of the cycle. Being in a relationship would be somewhat challenging, depending on "you" as the man on trest, and her as the woman. She would love the nonstop sexual attention, but any nagging or whiny chick stuff would be met with extreme indifference and once she whined too much I would just stop seeing her. Be careful with higher doses of Trest while in relationships would be my recommendation, but you guys are probably all Tren guys anyway so you know what I'm talking about.

The trest MSTEN combo in the beginning scared me due to the obscene pump. I couldn't even finish some workouts, and it only became manageable after starting 8-10g of taurine daily. Remember I'm only doing 300MG on sundays so my cycle is pretty lightweight, especially for my size. I'm about the same weight as I was in the beginning after dropping off most of the "carb" weight when I changed my diet, but I'm much stronger, and all my clothes are much looser. I'm going to take 4 or 5 months off until the end of the year and cut that entire time, so that next time I run these compounds I can go full tilt with the bulk and come away with even more gains. This is a long term plan for me, I'm not looking to get ripped quick. (LIES! I am, but i know it wont happen overnight, so I plan long term). I can't stress enough how awesome this cycle has been for me. I can't wait for the blood work to come back and hopefully I have no major issues. This compound can do everything you want (like most compounds I guess) as long as the diet is in order. Want to bulk, eat 4000 cals, want to cut? Eat 1800 cals. It's really that simple. I hope I'm not hyping it too much, but it just works well with my body, gives me the exact feelings I want, and I haven't even TOUCHED any AI or anti estrogen products whatsoever in 11 weeks. I got some slight nipple sensitivity issues early on when I was doing MSTEN but it quickly subsided, and obviously it wasn't bad enough for me to even bother with any anti estrogen compounds even though I have them here on hand and available.

TLR - TREST and MSTEN to win gentlemen.

 

[peter01]

Thanks for the detailed write up man. This helps.

 

[Johnblack]

So I got my lab results back and as I suspected, my cholesterol has risen significantly, and I have literally NO testosterone being produced by my body.

Everything else was pretty much in range, except cholesterol and test numbers.

Upon further reflection and comparison to baseline, My cholesterol actually isn't that bad, (from baseline of 131 to 167) and my estradiol dropped to 8.3 from 31. Maybe one of you can decipher these results but its pretty much what I expected. I have no obvious physical issues but my BP has risen sharply upon starting epistane and dienolone (which was expected since I have taken these compounds before). I'm going grocery shopping today so I'll get the BP down a little with a slight diet change.

 

[peter01]

Actually, I'm surprised your estrogen dropped. You said you have not needed an ai right?

 

[KilaCali]

Just found this thread, im subbed for the results as well, I'm about to start an epi/tren cycle bridging from my current cycle of alpha m60 (m1a/chlostebol) and diabolix..

 

[Johnblack]

Actually, I'm surprised your estrogen dropped. You said you have not needed an ai right?

Right, I have taken no AI support so far. I don't know what caused the estrogen drop but I'm totally ok with it.

 

[Johnblack]

The cycle ended a few weeks back. I dropped the dienolone and epi after 2 weeks due to BP issues. I wont run either of those again. I don't like how they made me feel. My natural production seemed to restart on its own after i stopped the dien/epi. Its hard to explain, but I could almost feel it. Throughout the cycle I never had any "low-t" sides. Even now, I still have not experienced any real side effects. My weight ended up about +20 lbs. I will run a serious cardio and weightlifting program for another 6 months or so and run this cycle again (with minor variations?) at the end of the year. I'll keep you guys posted on the final blood numbers in a few weeks.