EPI cycle mid bulk help

[Ianj66]

I am about to start my Epistane cycle (Havoc). I am mid offseason and unfortunately I have put on more fat than I would have liked.

My question is should I continue with my bulk with about 500 cal surplus and do some low intensity post workout cardio and hope that the Epistane will shed some of the fat? Or should I go on some sort of mini cut while I run the Epistane cycle to get rid of the fat. My next show isn't until mid October but I'm just concerned with putting on too much fat.

 

[McCrew530]

What's your stats and body fat atm. And are you cycling any thing else?

 

[Ianj66]

What's your stats and body fat atm. And are you cycling any thing else?

CURRENT
Age - 22
Height - 6'3''
Weight - 226 lbs
BF - 10-11%

STAGE STATS
Weight - 187lbs
BF - 5%


No Im not stacking anything with it, ive been natty so far so nervous for my first cycle. and epistane being a more mild PH im more comfortable with it. don't wanna get into a lot of things that will increase my risk of shutdown.

I will be taking cycle assist and armour V on my cycle, and my PCT will be Post cycle 3x by v labs

 

[hvactech]

Subd for the too young and no serm comments

 

[McCrew530]

keep bulking man don't worry about the minimal fat gain at 10-11% you should have no problem getting that back down. I can go visually from 12 down to single digits in a matter of a couple of weeks with a cleaned up diet. It gets harder for me when the fat starts creeping up into the high teens.
Epi will shut you down. I would save it for when you do cut for your show and run it a couple of days past your comp then start PCT.
Also you are going to need more that for PCT OTC pcts are not sufficient enough for a cycle like epi where the risk of rebounding estrogen is rather high.
Look up some standard PCT protocols so that when you do cycle you have an idea what to expect there are a million epi logs out there for you to read up on good luck and keep putting on some mass.
Cheers

 

[McCrew530]

Subd for the too young and no serm comments

not too young IMO especially if he is competing.

 

[hvactech]

not too young IMO especially if he is competing.

Im not personally saying he is...

 

[LeanEngineer]

Here's an info page about epistane at Strong Supplement Shop. http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epistane-info
do your research on Ph's and epistane before you start. Make sure you have everything you need on cycle and pct including serm before you start. But I would keep bulking and then cut closer to your competition but that's my opinion.

 

[Ryan1986]

If it were me I would adjust your cardio depending on where you are at goal wise, I find it easier to go run off a few extra calories rather than alter my meal plan or rework a diet. I get better consistency out of that method. If you give yourself 3-4 months to drop your bf to your target and aren't pushing too close to your show with too high % you should be on track. I would just focus on putting on those lean gains right now.

 

[Ianj66]

Maybe someone can explain it to me better but I've heard mixed things about serms an epistane, I plan on running a mild cycle, either 10/20/30/30 or 20/30/30/30. Regardless I thought epistane was supposed to help with gyno and not carry estrogen sides? So why would a serm be needed to control estrogen if epi already does

 

[mgkoret]

Maybe someone can explain it to me better but I've heard mixed things about serms an epistane, I plan on running a mild cycle, either 10/20/30/30 or 20/30/30/30. Regardless I thought epistane was supposed to help with gyno and not carry estrogen sides? So why would a serm be needed to control estrogen if epi already does

Research...

Epi stand shuts you down. Your natural estrogen levels will be high in order to create a homeostasis in the body of hormone levels. Your body will be reading your Epi like its actual test. So your estro will raise. Even if your ph, in this case Epi, doesn't convert to e, ie a wet compound like deca, you can still suffer estro sides once you stop taking Epi.
Once you stop Epi, your test will be at the all time low, but your estrogen will still be as high as it was in cycle. Therefor, nolva is used to block the receptors so you dint end up with Gyno issues. Clomid is used to restart your free test so your e will try to create homeostasis with your now natural producing test and will lower in its own.
If you use nothing, you will have shut down test, high estrogen, and titties.

Make sure to taper off your Serm like stated about in the serm layout for pct to lower the chance of rebound coming off the serm.

Use a serm, or don't cycle. Plain and simple. Pct the correct way. And understand this stuff before you start.

You can easily cut naturally to get down to that weight. Easy. And adjusting diet is honestly the fastest way. IMO

 

[bobbybondmo]

sub

 

[Ryan1986]

Which would you guys recommend for PCT on this cycle for him? I don't know whether to tell you clomid or nolva is the better choice. I am going to run a epi/alpha 1 cycle coming up and not sure which SERM would be suited for my situation yet either. The best thing to do is start reading and learning about how the compounds actually work and interact with your body.

 

[Ianj66]

Research...

Epi stand shuts you down. Your natural estrogen levels will be high in order to create a homeostasis in the body of hormone levels. Your body will be reading your Epi like its actual test. So your estro will raise. Even if your ph, in this case Epi, doesn't convert to e, ie a wet compound like deca, you can still suffer estro sides once you stop taking Epi.
Once you stop Epi, your test will be at the all time low, but your estrogen will still be as high as it was in cycle. Therefor, nolva is used to block the receptors so you dint end up with Gyno issues. Clomid is used to restart your free test so your e will try to create homeostasis with your now natural producing test and will lower in its own.
If you use nothing, you will have shut down test, high estrogen, and titties.

Make sure to taper off your Serm like stated about in the serm layout for pct to lower the chance of rebound coming off the serm.

Use a serm, or don't cycle. Plain and simple. Pct the correct way. And understand this stuff before you start.

You can easily cut naturally to get down to that weight. Easy. And adjusting diet is honestly the fastest way. IMO

I've already competed so I've already been to that bf. But I appreciate your reply man. So do you recommend nolvadex and clomid? How should I run them?

 

[mgkoret]

Either or both. Doesn't really matter. I run both

C at 50/50/25/25
N at 29/20/10/10

 

[Ianj66]

Either or both. Doesn't really matter. I run both

C at 50/50/25/25
N at 29/20/10/10

how do you run 29? they are 10mg tabs?

 

[Ryan1986]

Typo I'm sure. 0 and 9 are right next to each other.

 

[Ianj66]

well I feel like a dumb ass, didn't even think about it.

 

[Magg0078]

Clomid for balls
Nolva for gyno

 

[abformulations]

Torem is the best RC

We have a serm in the works and it's amazing. Should be out very soon. It'll make life much easier to get a legit serm and not get bunk serm anymore to ruin your gains and bring you back.

 

[mgkoret]

Yes typo. 20*

 

[Ianj66]

is nolva by itself as a pct sufficient maybe paired with a test booster and liver support obviously

 

[McCrew530]

is nolva by itself as a pct sufficient maybe paired with a test booster and liver support obviously

Yes

 

[Ianj66]

Alright so a bottle of epi is 90 caps.

If I do 20/30/40/40 it equals out to be 91 caps
Or
If I do 20 the first day then 30/30/30/40 it equals out to 90 caps even.

Which one would be better??

 

[mgkoret]

Alright so a bottle of epi is 90 caps. If I do 20/30/40/40 it equals out to be 91 caps Or If I do 20 the first day then 30/30/30/40 it equals out to 90 caps even. Which one would be better??

Best would be grab another bottle and run it at 30 for 6 weeks

 

[Ryan1986]

I would probably run 20/30/40/40 if it were me but it probably won't make a real noticeable difference either way. There may be slight differences with the two but nothing drastic. Correct me if anyone has better info to throw in there.

 

[mgkoret]

I would probably run 20/30/40/40 if it were me but it probably won't make a real noticeable difference either way. There may be slight differences with the two but nothing drastic. Correct me if anyone has better info to throw in there.

Epi kick in time isn't till week 3-4. 4 weeks probably won't bring anything too serious as far as gains. Maybe a few pounds. Like I stated above I would seriously subject running 2 bottles.

 

[Ryan1986]

I am currently running epi for 6 weeks and on week 3 so far at 20/30/30/40/40/40. Sides are low aside from a good libido boost for me we will see if that sticks. I'm having a hard time eating for some reason, not feeling hungry and a little nauseous at times. Strength may be up a little and starting to see some good pump coming on.

 

[Ianj66]

I have 2 bottles but I was debating running 2 different cycles. 1 now and 1 in another 6 months. Especially since the ban it will be difficult to get more.

 

[mgkoret]

I have 2 bottles but I was debating running 2 different cycles. 1 now and 1 in another 6 months. Especially since the ban it will be difficult to get more.

I'd run a 6 week for 30 or even run higher if wanted.

I'd pick up some non banned Msten or dmz to run on future cycles. Why run a cycle of it yields little effect at 4 weeks. What's the point? Even with the ban. Spend the time and work and run it longer to yield the best results from one solid cycle then run some heavier stuff later on. Look at my logs. It's worth it

 

[Ianj66]

You think havoc will still be made and sold? Or you think epi is a lost cause for the future

 

[mgkoret]

You think havoc will still be made and sold? Or you think epi is a lost cause for the future

Epi is gone. But people still bought it all up and I'm sure you will be able to find it or buy from uk.
My opinion, Epi is good, but not great. Better off moving up the ph scale after your first cycle

 

[Ianj66]

Moving up the Ph scale? Meaning?

 

[mgkoret]

Moving up the Ph scale? Meaning?

Epi is what many consider "mild". Doesn't yield a ton of gains. Pretty dry. Moderate strength gains. Recommended for first time users who don't want to do a dhea based product. Now by no means does it mean you can abuse it, but the results aren't always great.

Now other such as msten, dmz, tren, ect are more toxic but produce better gains. Once you know how your body reacts to a ph like Epi you can assume more about how to body may react to these harsher compounds. On top of that is stacking. Like a msten/dmz stack would be moderate dosages of 2 compounds together to produce greater gains.

So in a sense, these is a bit of a scale. All are a risk, but some are easier to handle and use than others. Epi is pretty low on the list.

 

[Ianj66]

So msten and dmz are legal?

 

[mgkoret]

So msten and dmz are legal?

Yes. For now

 

[Ryan1986]

If they are banned how can you order in from the UK. I was trying to figure that out with M1T ha. Some sites didn't even have the US as a shipping method. Some allowed me to put in my info but I never submitted my orders before I got more info on what could happen.

 

[abformulations]

Dmz is not legal

 

[mgkoret]

Ironmaglabs is still selling super dmz 3.0. So yeah you can still legally get your hands in it in the states

And you just gotta find the right sites. Just cause it's banned in the U.S. doesn't mean it is worldwide. Now we can't source or talk about illegal substances in the forum but Google is your friend. Do the research and you can get it.

 

[Ianj66]

After I run this cycle should I take some off before starting an ECY stack to cut fat? I've don't an ECY for contest prep I was just unsure if I can start it as soon as PCT is over after the epi cycle

 

[mgkoret]

Pretty sure you can run ecy in pct

 

[Ianj66]

Pretty sure you can run ecy in pct

Thanks boss, by the end of pct I'll be runnin it close to show prep so I figured I'd ask