18 yr old using T-1 Pro?

[dannyboy5000]

Hey all


I started weightlifting about 8 months ago and have made some decent gains, But im not near what my goals were for this summer . I was thinking about doing a 6 week cycle of T-1 Pro and following it up with 6 oxo and some twinlab tribulus fuel.


I was wondering if taking, just 1 cycle of this to help me get about 15 more pounds would be detrimental to myself, beings I am only 18.

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[YellowJacket]

No. And I wont be a prick about this like I normally am because you seem genuine in asking. 8 months is not even close to enough time in the weight room brother. Years and years, and then consider artificial hormones. We'll be glad to help you with your training and nutrition and supplement stacks to reach your goals.

 

[labrad]

Bump.

 

[Draven]

Double bump. You have huge potential still as a natural bro. Get yourself a solid diet, training regimen and some usfull sups and you'll put on that 15 pounds no problem. You still have enough test running around in your system.

I'd recommend the following sups:

Creatine
Glutamine (I know YJ will disagree but..)
Whey Protein
Flax
Vit C
Multi Vit
Liver tabs


These alone will give you major gains with the right diet and training. Don't be in such a rush bro, it takes time and you need to get a solid knowledge base of training and nutrition before you start messin with your hormones.

 

[YellowJacket]

Not only does glutamine suck, but I have no idea why you would recommend it for bulking, if you're going to waste your money, at least usr it for its 'muscle sparing effects' while cutting.

 

[Draven]

Hehe, I knew you couldn't resist. Well like others I find it helps in my recovery and even with my pumps. I've run both with and without it and overall just feel it is of benifit to me.

I could run and grab studies on it's cell volumizing effects when ingested with carbs and it's effects on protein sysnthiese but it's to damn late...but will if I must.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yes, thats great, but science proves otherwise.

 

[Draven]

Yes, thats great, but science proves otherwise.

hehe, ok just a sec.....

 

[YellowJacket]

Yea, go gather up your studies, make sure Prolabs and EAS wrote them. Glutamine just wont absorb in a high caloric diet.....ah, the power of placebo.

 

[Draven]

Stimulatory effect of glutamine on glycogen accumulation in human skeletal muscle.

Varnier M, Leese GP, Thompson J, Rennie MJ.

Department of Anatomy and Physiology, University of Dundee, Scotland, United Kingdom.

To determine whether glutamine can stimulate human muscle glycogen synthesis, we studied in groups of six subjects the effect after exercise of infusion of glutamine, alanine+glycine, or saline. The subjects cycled for 90 min at 70-140% maximal oxygen consumption to deplete muscle glycogen; then primed constant infusions of glutamine (30 mg/kg; 50 mg.kg-1.h-1) or an isonitrogenous, isoenergetic mixture of alanine+glycine or NaCl (0.9%) were administered. Muscle glutamine remained constant during saline infusion, decreased 18% during alanine+glycine infusion (P < 0.001), but rose 16% during glutamine infusion (P < 0.001). By 2 h after exercise, muscle glycogen concentration had increased more in the glutamine-infused group than in the saline or alanine+glycine controls (+2.8 +/- 0.6, +0.8 +/- 0.4, and +0.9 +/- 0.4 mumol/g wet wt, respectively, P < 0.05, glutamine vs. saline or alanine+glycine). Labeling of glycogen by tracer [U-13C]glucose was similar in glutamine and saline groups, suggesting no effect of glutamine on the fractional rate of blood glucose incorporation into glycogen. The results suggest that, after exercise, increased availability of glutamine promotes muscle glycogen accumulation by mechanisms possibly including diversion of glutamine carbon to glycogen.

And this one but I was unable to find the abstract.

: Roth E, Karner J, Ollenschlager G. Related Articles, Links
Glutamine: an anabolic effector?
JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1990 Jul-Aug;14(4 Suppl):130S-136S. Review. No abstract available.

 

[YellowJacket]

Oh what do you know:



The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. [email protected]

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.

 

[YellowJacket]

To save me some time, please see this thread:

Glutamine is Worthless

 

[Draven]

To save me some time, please see this thread:

Glutamine is Worthless

I know I've read the thread. What can I say, we can go back and forth but there's no point. I, like others, still find it to be of some benifit.

And you don't seem to argue of it's benift in recovery.

 

[YellowJacket]

I argue its benefits in anything. Its a scam supplement. Any protein powder you have has more than enough glutamine in it to suffice. Dont mistake placebo for 'benefits'. We certainly can go back and forth, by to save time, I formulated the above mentioned thread (theres actually 2 here) that prove scientifically and with personal tesitmonials of its uselessness. Cant argue with that.

 

[Draven]

Alright, Uncle until I can find that damn absract to Roth E, Karner J and Ollenschlager study.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ill help you look....

 

[Draven]

Hehe, jesus there's alot of glutamine studies with rats.... .... still looking for that damn study. Everyone references it but knowbody shows it.

 

[YellowJacket]

This one?

Glutamine: an anabolic effector?

Roth E, Karner J, Ollenschlager G.

First University Clinic of Surgery, Department of Pathophysiology, Vienna, Austria.

 

[Draven]

Yep, that's the one. There isn't any absrtact avaiable though, and most info is reworded and then given that for reference. I'd love to be able to read the damn thing, maybe I'm totaly wrong but apparently that study holds the argument for it's properties in recovery..

 

[YellowJacket]

Of course it does, and if you read the rest of their studies, they work with NOTHING but glutamine and glutamate. Not impying anything, but its a bit fishy to me. I have a shitload of 'glutamine is good' articles if you want them, 90% of which have been dismissed, but pro-glutamine articles none the less. The majority are sponsored by EAS and one other company, imagine that.

 

[Draven]

Well you maybe right YJ, the only one I seem to be able to find that supports this theroy is that one and it seems to be unavailable. I have to admit that most articles I've read claiming glutamine is good for recovery always refernce that study, and I am unable to find it, other than the title.

I was able to find quite a few though that say it is useful in a caloric deficit and in patients after surgery or burn victims. However I'm not sure how that relates to stress from weight training, I don't think they are quite the same.

Once again you have manage to beat down another glutamine advocate.... I give.

 

[zeromagnus]

OKKK....back to the original purpose of the thread, and not the discussion of glutamine, cuz we are all stubborn and wont listen worth a damn...i'm a bit older than you dannyboy, but i've been working out for almost 5 years (on and off, but solid the last 2 years)...you really have to get ur diet and everything else down before you use prohormones...i cant stress the importance of getting enough protein...then work on other stuff, liver tabs, creatine, glutamine if you believe it works, and flax seed oil...try that for a little while and see how your gains are...and then after a year or two, maybe then look at prohormones...but damn dude, you're only looking for a quick fix for the summer, that's fucking stupid, this **** takes time...go have surgery done if you want a quick fix, otherwise shuddup and go lift...(and eat)

 

[Draven]

Sorry dannyboy, didn't mean to highjack your thread.

Bump that zeromagnus.

 

[YellowJacket]

I dont feel bad for going off course on this one as he should have known the answer before he posted.

 

[Draven]

I dont feel bad for going off course on this one as he should have known the answer before he posted.

Me or dannyboy?

 

[YellowJacket]

Whoever started this thread.

 

[dannyboy5000]

well you are right i am looking for a quick fix i guess... But can anyone tell me if there are health problems if i were to use 1-test and 4ad? I know things about hurting joints and stuff because my muscles could grow to lift weights that my joints cant handle yet etc. But could it have the chance of messing up my natural test levels because im still young? or something along those lines..?

 

[dannyboy5000]

and why the hell would i have surgery? im a body builder not a micheal jackson

 

[sage]

well you are right i am looking for a quick fix i guess... But can. But could it have the chance of messing up my natural test levels because im still young? or something along those lines..?

thats exactly what will happen. the use of androgens like 1-test will inhibit natural testosterone production. an issue of growth in height is an element as well. maybe someone could put this in better terms. on a side note, please dont speak ill of michael (ha). ive been in your shoes though DB. 4-5 years back, i debated about prohormone use, researchin'. asking questions, comparing pros/cons.....the obvious choice was to wait few more years til i felt maturally ready to handle the stuff and get more years of weight training under my belt man. Sage

 

[DreamWeaver]

Kudos to you guys for handling this in the correct manner. Yes years and years it takes to learn how to liift and diet properly and you will learn so much in that time about your own body, you start to get into this stuff too early and that knowledge is lost.

 

[mauibuilt]

you just started lifting and you probably want to have that huge muscular feeling.

i say go with no2 and creatine at the same time. thats boost the confidence and motivation.

 

[Biggs]

good point maui... another good idea is to not set unrealistic goals... I don't like long term goals anyway, as the very idea makes me feel confined by some "end point"... there shouldn't be an end result to what we're doing here, bb is constant improvement throughout one's life... but smaller daily goals, or goals for each training session, something that you can visualize and see constant improvement in all the time keeps confidence and motivation high... ****, I'd say at least 3 yrs before touching ph anyway, as I feel that within a few years time with strict dedication HUGE strides can be made regardless of the starting condition... educate yourself but don't worry about it yet, too much "unassisted" work left to do

 

[John Benz]

dannyboy5000,

You have no clue about prohormones. PH are not a magic pill. If you don't have your diet right on track, and a couple of solid years hard training under your belt, it's like tossing your money in the trash. Diet and sleep are responsible for 90% of your gains. PH are just another supp, like creatine, only with possible side effects. The fact that you are asking about ph shows you don't have the knowledge required to use them. One day on a message board just isn't enough. Research the possible sides: baldness, gyno, and closing of growth plates. Also the added strength imparted by ph can be hard on an untrained body, resulting in tendon injuries and overtraining and physical illness.

Draven,

Glutamine is a great supplement, and has tremendous benefits in recovery and alleviating post workout soreness. Problem is, most people don't take enough. I take 20-30 gms both pre and post-workout. When I run out I see a great difference in recovery. If skeptics want to call it placebo, let them. Whatever works; it's cheap insurance against soft tissue injury. Let the skeptics tell Jay Cutler to quit take taking glutamine... or Ronnie. And they are not subsidized by makers of glutamine.

 

[YellowJacket]

Once again, I dont think its a fair comparison to compare the likesa of novice bodybuilders to IFBB pros, especially Coleman or Cutler. I truly hope you see how absurd this is. Not to mention Im sure they get a nice chunk of change to say "I use glutamine". Please consider the amount of anabolic steriods they use, the amount of growth hormone they use, the amount of insulin they use, I dont think glutamine fits in there anywhere.

 

[dannyboy5000]

dannyboy5000,

You have no clue about prohormones. PH are not a magic pill. If you don't have your diet right on track, and a couple of solid years hard training under your belt, it's like tossing your money in the trash. Diet and sleep are responsible for 90% of your gains. PH are just another supp, like creatine, only with possible side effects. The fact that you are asking about ph shows you don't have the knowledge required to use them. One day on a message board just isn't enough. Research the possible sides: baldness, gyno, and closing of growth plates. Also the added strength imparted by ph can be hard on an untrained body, resulting in tendon injuries and overtraining and physical illness.

PH are not a magic pill? I thought if i took them i would just have to stop worrking out completely and probably stop eating even. .. .... Please dont tell me what i do and do not know, unless you know me.

I have researched PH for probably 75 hours+ over the last half year. Read many studies, read many more experiences, and know a few folk at my gym who have done a few cycles with great results (one+).

I have my diet very strict, my training very strict, and my sleep schedule on track. I have already been supplementing with Nlarge 2 and Kaizen creatine.

And for the fact that I am asking questions about something means I have no knowledge? I am jsut trying to learn more, What i want to hear from you guys is if you know of any experiences where something went horribly wrong with someone who has used PH's so early in their BB career. (as for the largest concern of my growth plate closing, i am positive my frame is done growing.)

Thanks, i look foreward to some answers this time

 

[Draven]

Draven,

Glutamine is a great supplement, and has tremendous benefits in recovery and alleviating post workout soreness. Problem is, most people don't take enough. I take 20-30 gms both pre and post-workout. When I run out I see a great difference in recovery. If skeptics want to call it placebo, let them. Whatever works; it's cheap insurance against soft tissue injury. Let the skeptics tell Jay Cutler to quit take taking glutamine... or Ronnie. And they are not subsidized by makers of glutamine.

I also take 10g pre and another 20g post workout for recovery and also feel the difference when not using it. Unfortunately I was unable to adequately defend my position beyond personal expereince so really couldn't continue the debate. I'm still going to try and find that full study. I may just break down and pay for the damn thing to see if that study does confirm our position. I suspect it does but can't confirm that.

 

[YellowJacket]

I also take 10g pre and another 20g post workout for recovery and also feel the difference when not using it. Unfortunately I was unable to adequately defend my position beyond personal expereince so really couldn't continue the debate. I'm still going to try and find that full study. I may just break down and pay for the damn thing to see if that study does confirm our position. I suspect it does but can't confirm that.

Not to be an asshole, but one study wont suffice. Ive posted a dozen or so and have around 7 or 8 more and I know Bobo has several he's yet to display also, so one study wont get the job done.

 

[LakeMountD]

Not to be an asshole, but one study wont suffice. Ive posted a dozen or so and have around 7 or 8 more and I know Bobo has several he's yet to display also, so one study wont get the job done.

well ill have to agree with both of you.. (oh boy i know bobo will be on here to blast me with 400 studies just cause he hates me lol).. but although i would not recommend buying glutamine because of its rediculous price in its pure form i do like it a lil bit because i noticed when my friend gave me some and i took it i wasnt as sore the next day and my recovery seemed a lil better.. but not worth the money.. hell optimum whey has some glutamine in it anyways.. 2.5 g per serving i believe.. not bad..

 

[Big H]

PH are not a magic pill? I thought if i took them i would just have to stop worrking out completely and probably stop eating even. .. .... Please dont tell me what i do and do not know, unless you know me.

I have researched PH for probably 75 hours+ over the last half year. Read many studies, read many more experiences, and know a few folk at my gym who have done a few cycles with great results (one+).

I have my diet very strict, my training very strict, and my sleep schedule on track. I have already been supplementing with Nlarge 2 and Kaizen creatine.

And for the fact that I am asking questions about something means I have no knowledge? I am jsut trying to learn more, What i want to hear from you guys is if you know of any experiences where something went horribly wrong with someone who has used PH's so early in their BB career. (as for the largest concern of my growth plate closing, i am positive my frame is done growing.)

Thanks, i look foreward to some answers this time

Ha. Don't smart off to Benz. You have been lifting for 8 months and in that time you should have made a hell of a lot of gains. Not only are you new, and your body will respond well to ANY type of training, but you are 18 and your t-levels are still very high. Please, you probably are one of those people who want fast gains without worries of consequence. Let me see, you want facts? Fact: 1-test and 4ad **** with your hormonal endocrine system. This could cause permanent loss of libido or even impotence at your age. (our age) Fact: Increase risk of baldness. Fact: Rick of Gyno. Fact: Growth plate stunted, possiblity.
I don't get off where you would want to use ph's after 8 months of lifting. Why don't you worry more about your diet and training and actually lifting some heavy weights before considering this. When you get a respectable physique, with years of hard work behind it, then you are worthy enough to use PH's. But until then, nut up and take the gains naturally.

 

[bigpetefox]

Kids...

 

[dannyboy5000]

=)

 

[jonnyroyal86]

I hear you, about gaining weight. I'm a hard gainer, for every meal I eat, I have to double. You're to young to start any kind of anabolic supps, I agree you have plenty of natural test in your body. It takes years to pack on solid gains, but it starts with diet. Do your homework on a solid diet, you'll start seeing small gains eventually. Stay positive, listen to your body, n keep lifting.

 

[ChocolateClen]

13 year old topic god this makes me feel old....

 

[deepseajs]

On the plus side OP isn't too young for this cycle anymore ??

 

[jonnyroyal86]

Haha I better pay attention to dates, this kid is all grown now.

 

[jathan_howe]

Haha I better pay attention to dates, this kid is all grown now.

He's almost 32 now lol