big loss muscle and definition after DMZ/Tren cycle

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Hi guys,

Today I completed PCT for this cycle (DMZ+TREN) http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/256892-dymethazi9e-tr3n-transform.html

but im not satisfied with results.

How possible today I have less muscle before the cycle?
Muscles appears not full, and bad looking than before.

In add, after 5th week of tren, I got a persistent head pain, (even today i still a have it little ).

This was my second cycle, the first was Epistane solo, and was a lot better in gain.

This time, I got some mass (not clean) only around 4-5 week and then I lost all gains.

That's not all, before I started this cycle, my abs were more visible than now, so I think bodyfat is higher too.


My questions now:

- What's gone wrong?!
- what can I do now for recover the muscle loss?
- Is a good Idea start a new cycle? When?
- If i will start a new cycle, I want GAINS. What's the better and efficient compound?


please help me guys :(
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
How old are you? Do you know what your test levels were like before the cycle started? What was your diet like on cycle and in pct? What was your pct?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
How old are you? Do you know what your test levels were like before the cycle started? What was your diet like on cycle and in pct? What was your pct?
No, i don't know my test levels before the cycle...

My diet was 2700-3000kcal around 50%protein 25%carbs 25%fats
I write all other info into the cycle thread, I copy and past here:


GOAL: Lean Bulk (10-15lbs)
Stats: 1,73cm / 81kg
BF: around 12-14%
Age: 30
(Will post starting photo very soon.)

CYCLE:
TR3N for 8 weeks 60/90/90/90/90/120/120/120
DYMETHAZI9E for 6 weeks 40/40/40/40/40/60
TransFORM: 1pump day
XI-KT: 1ml/day

SUPPORT
AR1MACARE: 4cps / 8 weeks
Taurine: 5g / day / 8 weeks
Creatine: 5g / day / 8 weeks
Fish Oil: 3 cps 3 times/day / 8 weeks



PCT
SUP3R PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1
CLOMID: 50/50/25/25
NOLVA: 20/20/10/10
DAA: 6/6/6/3/3/3
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
^^This?
And take the amount of time on cycle + pct, off. Then maybe start a new cycle. Your wanting to bulk back and get your muscle back? I would maybe recommend an msten product. Maybe Msten extreme mass by assault labs.
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/msten-extreme-mass-builder-by-assault-labs
thank you for the tip, my cycle was 8weeks, pct with serm 4weeks... then I have to wait 3 months before start a new one? :( :( :(
and what better to do in the meanwhile?
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
thank you for the tip, my cycle was 8weeks, pct with serm 4weeks... then I have to wait 3 months before start a new one? :( :( :(
and what better to do in the meanwhile?
Try some Olympus Labs DermaStrength or Ep1c. Both great natural strength and muscle builders to use anytime. Especially between cycles and in pct. Laxogenin in DermaStrength is probably the most popular natural anabolic. Is not hormonal and requires no PCT. Like I said many use it in pct to help retain strength and muscle gains. I am currently using it myself in pct. To combine the 2 would be a fantastic natural stack!!
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Try some Olympus Labs DermaStrength or Ep1c. Both great natural strength and muscle builders to use anytime. Especially between cycles and in pct. Laxogenin in DermaStrength is probably the most popular natural anabolic. Is not hormonal and requires no PCT. Like I said many use it in pct to help retain strength and muscle gains. I am currently using it myself in pct. To combine the 2 would be a fantastic natural stack!!
Oh I forgot to mention, yes I already use DermaStrength (1-2pumps daily), started with PCT.

I have ostar1ne too, but not taking it, not sure if it will worth or not..
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I wish I had the answer for you man. If you're eating enough and training hard and this is still happening, other than knowing your exact macros and your body's needs. It's definitely something physiological. It would be hard to say you are not responding to a certain product, because you're not responding to SEVERAL products.
 
HTGduck

HTGduck

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Only thing that would make sense is that your SERMS were bunk! Or your diet was not very decent.
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Only thing that would make sense is that your SERMS were bunk! Or your diet was not very decent.
I bought serms from rx cart (Im in europe), anyone can tell if are they reliable?

Btw, take or not ostar1ne? Can help?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
I wish I had the answer for you man. If you're eating enough and training hard and this is still happening, other than knowing your exact macros and your body's needs. It's definitely something physiological. It would be hard to say you are not responding to a certain product, because you're not responding to SEVERAL products.
I responded well to EPISTANE in my first cycle, got great gains, but maybe the PCT was not solid, so I lost 50% of gains.

This time, pct was solid, but I lost not only the few gains of the DMZ+tren, but I lost more than what i gained!

So Im thinking at my next cycle: run again EPISTANE? Or try Msten?
 
Dma378

Dma378

Legend
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
My recommendation is to have some blood work done first to check natural test levels. Get your base line. This will help you structure a cycle and a pct to gain and maintain. So your SERMs were pills? That's typically a more reliable form. There are also other test boosting options for pct other than DAA.

Before recommending another potentially failing cycle, I recommend blood work.

Did you physically track your calories and macros?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
My recommendation is to have some blood work done first to check natural test levels. Get your base line. This will help you structure a cycle and a pct to gain and maintain. So your SERMs were pills? That's typically a more reliable form. There are also other test boosting options for pct other than DAA.

Before recommending another potentially failing cycle, I recommend blood work.

Did you physically track your calories and macros?
Ok i will do a blood work, and yes my SERMs were pills.

I not tracked calories , I had a diet schedule to respect the calories I intended to consume.
 
Grayson

Grayson

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
You lost 50% gains off your first cycle -Epistane. You said your PCT was not up to par.
Now you did this stack of THREE PHs lasting 8 weeks total. Your ancillary source seems fine.
I'm guessing it's your diet.
Did you start cutting in PCT or did you keep calories the same? Did you keep training intensity in PCT? Are you being honest with how you were tracking your calories? Did you track your workouts with a notebook or smartphone app?

If all of these questions are answered truthfully, go to an endo. Not a GP. Endo.

We're not doctors or diagnosticians, so we can't help besides training, diet and cycle SUGGESTIONS.

Your hormonal experience could underlie a serious hormonal issue that only PHs brought out.

Lastly, do not take Ostarine at this moment simply because it is another hormonal substance. Your body needs to achieve homeostasis.
 

bomb

Member
Awards
0
I also order my serms from rxcart - I guess they are not bunk but I would like to hear some other opinions on that shop
 
yates84

yates84

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I also order my serms from rxcart - I guess they are not bunk but I would like to hear some other opinions on that shop
SERMs are very inexpensive to make, really no reason for someone to fake them. This is probably not your issue
 
Abe Lincoln

Abe Lincoln

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Probably didn't adjust diet or training during pct. You have to eat to maintain your current weight for 1-2 months after pct, unless you get bloods done. Some things that could help minimize fat gains would be a cortisol blocker like reduce xt, but it comes with territory. IGF and insulin are also options for maintaining muscle mass during Pct and onwards
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Try AAS...wait the time on + pct off then maybe do a test cyp cycle or something,why did you choose a ph (not judging at all just asking)
 
CATdiesel76

CATdiesel76

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
From what I gather your problem wasn't the pct but the fact that you actually lost muscle during the cycle.

Sounds like your tren and dmz were bunk more than anything. No way that cycle wouldn't make you have more muscle than when you started.
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Try AAS...wait the time on + pct off then maybe do a test cyp cycle or something,why did you choose a ph (not judging at all just asking)
Not tried AAS because I have not too much knowledge about them, but maybe next time I will use them...other problem, I hate vials..btw what can I expect from a Test Cyp solo cycle?

From what I gather your problem wasn't the pct but the fact that you actually lost muscle during the cycle.

Sounds like your tren and dmz were bunk more than anything. No way that cycle wouldn't make you have more muscle than when you started.
I don't think were bunk, I used OL products...me too can't explain why I loss all that muscles.

My first cycle with epistane was great, I see results.. but this second cycle was a fail..
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Not tried AAS because I have not too much knowledge about them, but maybe next time I will use them...other problem, I hate vials..btw what can I expect from a Test Cyp solo cycle?

I don't think were bunk, I used OL products...me too can't explain why I loss all that muscles.

My first cycle with epistane was great, I see results.. but this second cycle was a fail..
I'm going to do my first cycle in Feb :)...My friend did one and kept 10lbs muscle so I'm pretty excited
 
jbryand101b

jbryand101b

Banned
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Hi guys,

Today I completed PCT for this cycle (DMZ+TREN) http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/256892-dymethazi9e-tr3n-transform.html

but im not satisfied with results.

How possible today I have less muscle before the cycle?
Muscles appears not full, and bad looking than before.

In add, after 5th week of tren, I got a persistent head pain, (even today i still a have it little ).

This was my second cycle, the first was Epistane solo, and was a lot better in gain.

This time, I got some mass (not clean) only around 4-5 week and then I lost all gains.

That's not all, before I started this cycle, my abs were more visible than now, so I think bodyfat is higher too.

My questions now:

- What's gone wrong?!
- what can I do now for recover the muscle loss?
- Is a good Idea start a new cycle? When?
- If i will start a new cycle, I want GAINS. What's the better and efficient compound?

please help me guys :(
chasing the Dragon

If you lost your gains and got fat, your pct sucked, and you ate like crap.
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Could you maybe post up your diet and training routine?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
My diet was this:

breakfast :
-5 eggs
-100g oats
-2 ts peanuts butter

mid-morning:
- whey protein 50g

Lunch:
50g rice
250g meat or fish
vegetables

afternoon meal:
250/300g turkey breast / ham (whey protein in post workout)

dinner:
-300g meat or fish
-2 potatoes
-vegetables


- before bed

whey protein



what do you think?
 
jbryand101b

jbryand101b

Banned
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
You measure your food in grams instead of cups and ounces?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
My diet was this:

breakfast :
-5 eggs
-100g oats
-2 ts peanuts butter

mid-morning:
- whey protein 50g

Lunch:
50g rice
250g meat or fish
vegetables

afternoon meal:
250/300g turkey breast / ham (whey protein in post workout)

dinner:
-300g meat or fish
-2 potatoes
-vegetables


- before bed
whey protein

what do you think?
Calorie count?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
around 2700kcal
@ 81kg you shouldn't have gained fat while on that cycle..so either PCT wasn't on spot (maybe a bunk batch) or your test never recovered?..I dunno?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
@ 81kg you shouldn't have gained fat while on that cycle..so either PCT wasn't on spot (maybe a bunk batch) or your test never recovered?..I dunno?
unfortunely I can't know if the PCT was bunk or not..maybe I never fully recovered my test...or I dunno.

Now I have to wait Cycle+PCT time before trying something, but I hope to recover until that day....@ jan I will do bloodworks and so I can check my test levels..
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
unfortunely I can't know if the PCT was bunk or not..maybe I never fully recovered my test...or I dunno.

Now I have to wait Cycle+PCT time before trying something, but I hope to recover until that day....@ jan I will do bloodworks and so I can check my test levels..
Why wait till then?,..Try Test cyp :)
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
another question: in the case my clomid/nolva was bunk, how can I repair to that? Do PCT again? Or what?
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Why wait till then?,..Try Test cyp :)
everyone told me to wait that timeframe before start messin'up again with my hormones :D

p.s. test cyp, is only vial? No oral version?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I meant for the bloodwork lol
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
I meant for the bloodwork lol
oh lol


that's the date they give me for that bloodwork..
yeah I know, my country is sooo slow


btw, I don't feel like my test is low..I mean, my dk works good :p my libido is ok and i not feel lethargic..

what are the other negative effects when low test? Just trying to understand if is that my issue..
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
oh lol

that's the date they give me for that bloodwork..
yeah I know, my country is sooo slow

btw, I don't feel like my test is low..I mean, my dk works good :p my libido is ok and i not feel lethargic..

what are the other negative effects when low test? Just trying to understand if is that my issue..
I have no idea..you could run some nolva again,but in my opinion whats lost is lost..I would just take time off then do some quality gear
 
jbryand101b

jbryand101b

Banned
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Anabolism: taking smaller molecules and combining them to form larger ones.

Muscle building and fat storage are both anabolic responses

You take anabolic steroids to get an anabolic response.
Diet and training will dictate which response trumps the other.

Calories are too low lastly.
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
Anabolism: taking smaller molecules and combining them to form larger ones.

Muscle building and fat storage are both anabolic responses

You take anabolic steroids to get an anabolic response.
Diet and training will dictate which response trumps the other.

Calories are too low lastly.
Thank you for your technical answer.

In that case which should have been the correct calories amount?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
3000-4000
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Take 8-10 weeks off then
Week 1-4: 30mg Dbol e/d
Week 1-10:Testosterone Cypionate 500mg a week (monday+Thursday injections)
Week 12-16:Nolva 20,20,20,20
Clomid 50,50,50,50
Do the same type of diet BUT eat 3500-4000 cals per day eat clean..
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Oyea remember Arimidex and the taurine!
 
Hazard5150

Hazard5150

Member
Awards
0
Take 8-10 weeks off then
Week 1-4: 30mg Dbol e/d
Week 1-10:Testosterone Cypionate 500mg a week (monday+Thursday injections)
Week 12-16:Nolva 20,20,20,20
Clomid 50,50,50,50
Do the same type of diet BUT eat 3500-4000 cals per day eat clean..
test c better then test e?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
test c better then test e?
They are almost identical..Test Cyp has q longer half life so you could inject once a week if you want to..Test Cyp is also ALOT cheaper here..you can use test E aswell :) is money an object for you?
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
If money is no object and you want a clean bulk i would go with
Week 1-5: Tbol 40-60mg e/d
Week 1-10: Test E 500mg per week
Same pct as with cyp dbol cycle..Test E is supposed to hold less water than test cyp and Tbol has been described as Dbol without bloat
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
South Africa
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
...
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Fyi Sa is an incredible country we are jusy as civil and advance as USA yes I am white and there are alot of white people here,only 0.25% white people have aids and 12% black people.We are above the "average" IQ and only drive 2014 Bmw's.There,just wanted to get the "Sa is a zulu land aids infested place" thing out of the way
 

gianlol

Member
Awards
0
thanks jakz, you gave me some hopes :D
arimidex on cycle or pct?


only problem, I never used vial, so I don't know if Im able to do it :D
 
jakz

jakz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
thanks jakz, you gave me some hopes :D
arimidex on cycle or pct?

only problem, I never used vial, so I don't know if Im able to do it :D
Do you mean you are afraid of needles or the handling of vials?..arimidex or adex on cycle in my opinion
 

Similar threads


Top