On Cycle: Strength vs. Volume

On cycle, which do you prefer: strength or volume?

  • Strength

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • Volume

    Votes: 11 57.9%

  • Total voters
    19
Grayson

Grayson

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I've had discussions about this with koi1214, but I'd like the community's input on this: while on cycle (and for argument's sake let's take H-Drol/DMZ/M-Sten -since these are relatively dry/lean gaining hormones) do you prefer strength training (5/3/1, SS, DC) or volume-based training? (PHAT/PHUL or any old school BB routine)

The logic here is that you build strength on cycle and then take that strength and use volume training in PCT.

Specific Definitions
Volume = 4-8x8-12 or anywhere from 64-144 reps per body part
Strength = 5-10x1-5 utilizing at least 85% 1RM
 
Dma378

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Have done both on cycle, and must say that the strength increases are part of the rush of being "on" for me. That doesn't mean the volume didn't do it for me, it did. And got stronger for volume. There's just nothing like seeing the numbers jump. The trick is just getting it to stick.
 
Grayson

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Of course. Dedication and consistency trumps all. Were you able to maintain those numbers in PCT?
 
nbshazeezee

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I prefer heavy weight high volume :D hahaha jk I like to mix it up honestly.

But seeing your body put up PRs every week is awesome.
 
nbshazeezee

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So I would probably do strength. I like 8-12 reps
 
Dma378

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Of course. Dedication and consistency trumps all. Were you able to maintain those numbers in PCT?
In current pct, numbers are still climbing. Been in pct from DMZ for 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks I have still smashed several PR's. Deadlifts, High Pulls, Pendlays, Krocs. Yesterday's flat bench session was strong as well. Do not see anything diminishing if I maintain this intensity.
 
zcol94

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Hit each body part twice a week once heavy once for volume.... Profit????
I'm just kidding, although that is how I train, not sure which would be of more benefit, so I'm subbed to see if anyone has a sciencey answer
 
Grayson

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I perfected heavy weight high volume :D hahaha jk

I like to mix it up honestly. But seeing your body put up PRs every week is awesome.
There's some merit to what you're saying. 4-5x10 is not the same as 10x4-5 in terms of INTENSITY, but the REPS are the same only VOLUME is way higher on the strength based regime.

In current pct, numbers are still climbing. Been in pct from DMZ for 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks I have still smashed several PR's. Deadlifts, High Pulls, Pendlays, Krocs. Yesterday's flat bench session was strong as well. Do not see anything diminishing if I maintain this intensity.
Exactly: INTENSITY.

Obviously on a cycle recovery and MPS are elavated, so would INTENSITY + VOLUME = BOOM?

There's also this study:

Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.

Abstract
PURPOSE:
Athletes who use anabolic steroids get larger and stronger muscles. How this is reflected at the level of the muscle fibers has not yet been established and was the topic of this investigation.
METHODS:
Muscle biopsies were obtained from the trapezius muscles of high-level power lifters who have reported the use of anabolic steroids in high doses for several years and from high-level power lifters who have never used these drugs. Enzyme-immunohistochemical investigation was performed to assess muscle fiber types, fiber area, myonuclear number, frequency of satellite cells, and fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms.
RESULTS:
The overall muscle fiber composition was the same in both groups. The mean area for each fiber type in the reported steroid users was larger than that in the nonsteroid users (P < 0.05). The number of myonuclei and the proportion of central nuclei were also significantly higher in the reported steroid users (P < 0.05). Likewise, the frequency of fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms was significantly higher in the reported steroid users group (P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use. The incorporation of the satellite cells into preexisting fibers to maintain a constant nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio seems to be a fundamental mechanism for muscle fiber growth. Although all the subjects in this study have the same level of performance, the possibility of genetic differences between the two groups cannot be completely excluded.

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Long story short, steroids and strength training increase the activity of satellite cells. (i.e. formation of new muscle cells)

Then there's this:

Effects of different volume-equated resistance training loading strategies on muscular adaptations in well-trained men.

Abstract
Regimented resistance training has been shown to promote marked increases in skeletal muscle mass. Although muscle hypertrophy can be attained through a wide range of resistance training programs, the principle of specificity, which states that adaptations are specific to the nature of the applied stimulus, dictates that some programs will promote greater hypertrophy than others. Research is lacking, however, as to the best combination of variables required to maximize hypertophic gains. The purpose of this study was to investigate muscular adaptations to a volume-equated bodybuilding-type training program vs. a powerlifting-type routine in well-trained subjects. Seventeen young men were randomly assigned to either a hypertrophy-type resistance training group that performed 3 sets of 10 repetition maximum (RM) with 90 seconds rest or a strength-type resistance training (ST) group that performed 7 sets of 3RM with a 3-minute rest interval. After 8 weeks, no significant differences were noted in muscle thickness of the biceps brachii. Significant strength differences were found in favor of ST for the 1RM bench press, and a trend was found for greater increases in the 1RM squat. In conclusion, this study showed that both bodybuilding- and powerlifting-type training promote similar increases in muscular size, but powerlifting-type training is superior for enhancing maximal strength.

<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Here we see that there's no change in muscle composition of volume vs strength based on muscle biopsies.

Based on this, I'm leaning towards strength training on cycle. But I'd like more input.
 
Nitro41

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I went with extreme volume on this run of dmz/trest

All my sets were 12-25 reps, typically i liked 16-18 for the big muscle groups.

Triple drop sets, low weight concentrated mostly on a good full 1 second squeeze on reps.

Gained 13lbs and leaner then i ever been. Pressing Dbells for 15 at the same weight i did them for 8 before cycle so im getting stronger too.
 
Grayson

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I went with extreme volume on this run of dmz/trest

All my sets were 12-25 reps, typically i liked 16-18 for the big muscle groups.

Triple drop sets, low weight concentrated mostly on a good full 1 second squeeze on reps.

Gained 13lbs and leaner then i ever been. Pressing Dbells for 15 at the same weight i did them for 8 before cycle so im getting stronger too.
Interesting, so you went the opposite way.

How is your strength/stamina in PCT? Are able to complete the same sets/reps with the same weight as you did on cycle?
 
Dma378

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When I did GVT for 8 weeks I got stronger for some moves and lost overall strength for others. Bench and Squat went down, while Deads and most rowing moves went up. Though strength for volume steadily increased. Think my first week I was only able to complete 165 x 10 x 10 on Bench. And at the end I could do 205 x 10 x 10. This was on Ostarine and Ep1c, so not necessarily a PH or DS cycle. But my overall 1RM went down from 300 to 275.
 
jdg76

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I've always liked the idea of hitting PRs weekly on cycle but I was also always afraid of getting hurt. You have to remember your ligaments and tendons don't grow like your muscles do ;)
 
Grayson

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When I did GVT for 8 weeks I got stronger for some moves and lost overall strength for others. Bench and Squat went down, while Deads and most rowing moves went up. Though strength for volume steadily increased. Think my first week I was only able to complete 165 x 10 x 10 on Bench. And at the end I could do 205 x 10 x 10. This was on Ostarine and Ep1c, so not necessarily a PH or DS cycle. But my overall 1RM went down from 300 to 275.
This is what I've been hearing with GVT.

Have you looked into Fiber Damage/Fiber Saturation training?

I've always liked the idea of hitting PRs weekly on cycle but I was also always afraid of getting hurt. You have to remember your ligaments and tendons don't grow like your muscles do ;)
I think there's away to get around this using a special collagen synthesis formula that includes vit c, proline and lysine taken 3 times a day.

I'd have to look into this specific protocol.
 
Dma378

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I haven't, but will look into it now. Because was thinking of doing it again in a few months, but on an ph cycle.
 
Grayson

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I haven't, but will look into it now. Because was thinking of doing it again in a few months, but on an ph cycle.
The author is Eric Broser. It's a mix of heavy training + 1/4 rep (pump training) with extreme stretching.

I'm studying for finals, so I'll pull the studies later, but the point of muscle growth is fiber recruitment. This mean's 85% of our 1RM load AT LEAST. This why RP training is so popular I guess.

Here's LM's explanation on rep schemes: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/reps-per-set-for-optimal-growth/
 
Dma378

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Good read, makes a lot of sense. Kind of has me also re-evaluating doing a true GVT program. That's pretty much how it is...easy 8-9 reps, tougher last rep. But not really even for a few sets. Of course near sets 9-10 the other fibers may be recruited sooner than the last couple reps. But either way, they are missing out on a lot of time engaged.
 
Nitro41

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Interesting, so you went the opposite way.

How is your strength/stamina in PCT? Are able to complete the same sets/reps with the same weight as you did on cycle?
Not sure. Im coasting on osta for few weeks til pct. The savage pumps from dmz are gonr but im still movin good weight

Gained 1inch on arms
1/2inch on forearms
1.5inches on legs
.75inches on calves
solid gains on chest and back.
 
Grayson

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Not sure. Im coasting on osta for few weeks til pct. The savage pumps from dmz are gonr but im still movin good weight

Gained 1inch on arms
1/2inch on forearms
1.5inches on legs
.75inches on calves
solid gains on chest and back.
x2 on the solid gains. How long was this cycle? Any harshness to report?
 

Loneyboy

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In current pct, numbers are still climbing. Been in pct from DMZ for 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks I have still smashed several PR's. Deadlifts, High Pulls, Pendlays, Krocs. Yesterday's flat bench session was strong as well. Do not see anything diminishing if I maintain this intensity.
what sort of a pct are you running?
 
Nitro41

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x2 on the solid gains. How long was this cycle? Any harshness to report?
6 weeks ran trest at 100 and dmz up to 80. I think its diesnt seem to do much more over 60. Joints felt awesome! Had some backpumps, but only doing things that put lower back under a serious load. 3g taurine fixed that.

Right nipple got a little tender feeling, no lumps, and its all gone now.

Dmz really lived up to the hype. Glad i stocked up, cant wait to run it again, maybe with some msten.
 
BigBlackGuy

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derekantos

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I went with extreme volume on this run of dmz/trest

All my sets were 12-25 reps, typically i liked 16-18 for the big muscle groups.

Triple drop sets, low weight concentrated mostly on a good full 1 second squeeze on reps.

Gained 13lbs and leaner then i ever been. Pressing Dbells for 15 at the same weight i did them for 8 before cycle so im getting stronger too.
I do this same "extreme volume" every cycle. Works best when I did it with tren I think. Stacking m-sten and tren in a couple weeks.
 
jmyers

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I prefer a mixture of both. I'll make my first exercise a compound movement and pyramid down and than up, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 8, 10, 12. Than after that movement I'll go do a superset for 4 sets w/ rep ranges from 14-8 w/ a triple drop set on the last set. After that I'll hit another compound for 4 sets w/ rep ranges of 12-6 w/ a triple drop set on the last set. Than lastly, I'll do another superset for 4 sets w/ rep ranges from 14-8 w/ a triple drop set on the last set. IMO I get the best of both worlds and fell bumped/beastly at the end of the workout.
 

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