Havoc or Andro for first ever PH Cycle??

[badgerboy52]

A little bit about me first..

Age:21- Been Lifting since I was 16(300# Bench, 500#Squat)
Height- 6'0"
Weight:220
BF: 16% (bodpod tested), i know this a little bit higher than usually suggested
Goals: Increase strength, 7-10lb increase in muscle, while going down 2-3% body fat,


I was going to just go with havoc but lately people have been saying andro is more mild and an even better first PH to take so now I'm kinda going back and forth..honestly, this is the first time on a ph, ive used just about everything else on the market lol so Im really just worried about the sides and stuff and how my body will respond..will be stacking with derma to avoid lethargy and stuff..also im very prone to gyno like symptoms and want to minimize that (already have pseudo since about 4th grade that doesnt go away)

 

[Afi140]

1 and 4 Andro products. I ran a stack recently and you will easily gain 5-7lbs. I ran Otc pct as well. I highly recommend dhea based products. Especially great if you're prone to gyno. Easy on the liver and sides are extremely minimal. Especially since you're only 21. Finaflex 1-andro is great and we also have iron mag labs 1 and 4Andro products as well. Were you gonna do Otc pct? http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/finaflex-1-andro-by-redefine-nutrition

 

[8footballQB]

I would recommend Havoc. i'm 2 weeks in at 30mg and no sides at all. I've leaned out while getting stronger and gaining a couple pounds. so far so good

 

[LeanEngineer]

Afi140 pretty much covered it. Andro is a great ph because its a non-methylated prohormone which means its not as harmful. So i'd definitely recommend it.

 

[Afi140]

I would recommend Havoc. i'm 2 weeks in at 30mg and no sides at all. I've leaned out while getting stronger and gaining a couple pounds. so far so good

we also have havoc in stock. It's a great compound and it is on the milder side of the PH spectrum for sure. Personally for first cycle I would do the 1-dhea because it's mild and actually really effective. A published university study backs efficacy. Can't go wrong with either though.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/rpn-havoc-90-caps

 

[badgerboy52]

1 and 4 Andro products. I ran one recently and you will easily gain 5-7lbs. I ran Otc pct as well. I highly recommend dhea based products. Finaflex 1-andro is great and we also have iron mag labs 1 and 4Andro products as well. Were you gonna do Otc pct?

I was planning on being on the safe side with either and getting a serm no matter what just to have. and if i didnt need it right away, i would still have it for the future..the only thing about the andro is it looked like I would need 2 or more bottles to actually get effective doses which would be very expensive compared to havoc

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Better safe than sorry. Havoc for sure.

 

[badgerboy52]

Better safe than sorry. Havoc for sure.

why do you say that? as far as getting the best results out of it?

ive been leaning towards havoc also because of the price

 

[Afi140]

why do you say that? as far as getting the best results out of it? ive been leaning towards havoc also because of the price

if you're gonna have a serm havoc is good. It is also more cost effective like you said. Obviously it's methylated so it is harder on the liver. You will see maybe 2 or 3 more lbs of gains depending. If cost is the biggest factor you can run havoc no problem. I ran Ibe epistane and it was great with almost no sides. The dhea based ones are just a little easier on the body.

 

[badgerboy52]

if you're gonna have a serm havoc is good. It is also more cost effective like you said. Obviously it's methylated so it is harder on the liver. You will see maybe 2 or 3 more lbs of gains depending. If cost is the biggest factor you can run havoc no problem. I ran Ibe epistane and it was great with almost no sides. The dhea based ones are just a little easier on the body.

well i've never really had any liver issues and have been cutting down alot on alcohol use in the past year (i know i cant drink on a cycle), so would that really be an issue if i used cycle assist like something for a week pre cycle, throughout the cycle, and then whatever is left during pct?

also i saw on your site that it has andro listed as a test base for havoc..is it actually a good test base? Ive only heard of people using derma or stano but once again stano is extremely expensive for the doses needed

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Better results, cost effective, balanced risks/rewards, etc.

 

[bert45]

A little bit about me first..

Age:21- Been Lifting since I was 16(300# Bench, 500#Squat)
Height- 6'0"
Weight:220
BF: 16% (bodpod tested), i know this a little bit higher than usually suggested
Goals: Increase strength, 7-10lb increase in muscle, while going down 2-3% body fat,

I was going to just go with havoc but lately people have been saying andro is more mild and an even better first PH to take so now I'm kinda going back and forth..honestly, this is the first time on a ph, ive used just about everything else on the market lol so Im really just worried about the sides and stuff and how my body will respond..will be stacking with derma to avoid lethargy and stuff..also im very prone to gyno like symptoms and want to minimize that (already have pseudo since about 4th grade that doesnt go away)

If your worried about gyno try lgscience epiandro with there 1androstenolone