Lets say some one was going to do an as or ph cycle in which the gains would be hard to keep. What would be the best combo and dosages to keep the most gains possible. Assume the cycle is a one month cycle, not a very lengthy as cycle.
(IGF-1 sould be in anyones PCT)
Originally Posted by extremefighter
I would argue against Arimidex for two reasons. One, why reduce estrogen when you are taking an estrogen antagonist (clomid)? You are already largely blocking its inhibitory effects at the hypothalamous. Estrogen is needed to maintain muscle mass and keep you joint hydrated. Second, the aramotization of testosterone to estrogen maintains healthy GH, IGF-1 and insulin production.
i think having a-dex (or preferably aromasin) at a low does pct is good ... it helps prevent estro rebound
i would NOT recommend HCG for PCT as its suppressive and best used while still on cycle
add in a cortisol blunter like lean xtreme or ps and take out the clomid and replace it with nolva (same results, no PMS like attitude)
so in summary glenihan---what is the ultimate pct?
haha in my opinion its igf-1, nolva, a cortisol blunter (lean xtreme or ps), creatine, and an AI at a low dosage like a-dex .25 mg eod or e3d ... there's probably some other stuff you can add like arganine (sp) and those non hormonal anabolics that are similar to creatine
Novla keeps estrogren blocked, what about something to bring test levels back up?
nolva, through a negative feedback loop, tells your body its gotta start producing more test
i don't really know anything about designer's rebound XT but that may have some real use in PCT as well ... although it may be redundant while using nolva
sorry, what is "ps"Originally Posted by glenihan
phosphatidyl serine [sp?]. You can buy it in bulk from custom.
Sounds like a winning combo to me. I'd probably throw some ZMA in a bed time as well.
You can go into PCT w/ hCG no prob, it's a good way to do it, but like Glen said, it's bad all the way so it should not extend more than 2 weeks into PCT, same as the Arimidex. A steroidal AI like Rebound could be used all the way through, it's a better option than 6-oxo because it's much stronger with no androgenic metabolites and can be used at lower doses that will not adversely affect SHBG. I'd sub Fenugreek for the Trib (it's just stronger), and the Clomid is best up front but finish the last half with Nolva. Nobody would argue with the IGF Also don't forget the creatine and DHEA, or at least a cort inhibitor like 7-OH-DHEA or PS.Originally Posted by extremefighter
Im not too keen on an AI post cycle. Your HDL/LDL is already skewed, and to further lower estrogen PC is not a good idea IMO. Dr. D correct me if Im way off base here.
no no no , not like this, u guys have to post doses, timing, etc etc . come on, evryone start again .
no, a better idea would be to use it close to the end of the cycle, and use only anti estrogens post cycle.i think having a-dex (or preferably aromasin) at a low does pct is good ... it helps prevent estro rebound
my idea of a good post cycle therapy protocol (in general) would have the following:
Nolvadex: /40mg/40mg/20mg/20 mg
clomid : 50/50/50/50 mg
Lean Xtreme: 150mg/day for 4 weeks /PS-800 mg per day, taken before cardio/workout.
creatine- 10 gms per day, 5 before workout and 5 gms after workout.
ZMA: Recommended dose for 6 weeks
vit c- 3 gms per day, on an empty stomach.
i like insulin, so 6 iu insulin twice a day.
rosiglitazone(avandia) 4 mg twice a day/metformin 850 mg with lunch.
if u could afford, gh 4 iu per day or igf-1 40 mcg on workout days to go with the slin.
ofcourse, add HCG to this protocol too .
variations in training would be like this:
) dont train the smaller muscles much, so pretty much stick to pressing movements, ie bench/incline for the chest, chins and deadlifts for the back, squats and stiff leg deads for the hammies, and dips for the triceps, this is enough.
2)train only 3-4 times a week, each muscle only one per week, but movements should be heavy, but again, for the 4 weeks of pct, keep rep range within 6-10.
3)After 6 weeks(of pct), emphasise negatives, drop sets for each muscle at the end of the training session for the muscle.. this is in prepration for the next cycle. So that u have increased AR count, insulin sensitivity etc when u cycle again.
did i cover everything? critique as well as add in your own ideas like this people !
i disagree, after a few weeks of PCT many people experience estrogen rebound and many have had success running low dose a-dex throughout (like .25mg eod or e3d) to kill off excess estrogen ... jmoOriginally Posted by raybravo
Well, you never want to just destroy your estrogen level, true. But if you have elevated your estrogen on cycle (which is any cycle with test in it) your FSH output is going to be low. Even once your testicles start producing again, the test will contribute to estrogen levels and should be attenuated until you are normalized. You can recover LH in PCT without an anti-estrogen, but to restore volume and sperm counts, estrogen must be controled.Originally Posted by prolangtum
Is it optimal to take all anti-E's before bed? I know that nolva has a 4 day 1/2 life, so does it even matter?