Lets say some one was going to do an as or ph cycle in which the gains would be hard to keep. What would be the best combo and dosages to keep the most gains possible. Assume the cycle is a one month cycle, not a very lengthy as cycle.
igf-1
hcg
clomid
Tribulus Terriestris
Arimidex
(IGF-1 sould be in anyones PCT)
sorry, what is "ps"(lean xtreme or ps)
You can go into PCT w/ hCG no prob, it's a good way to do it, but like Glen said, it's bad all the way so it should not extend more than 2 weeks into PCT, same as the Arimidex. A steroidal AI like Rebound could be used all the way through, it's a better option than 6-oxo because it's much stronger with no androgenic metabolites and can be used at lower doses that will not adversely affect SHBG. I'd sub Fenugreek for the Trib (it's just stronger), and the Clomid is best up front but finish the last half with Nolva. Nobody would argue with the IGF Also don't forget the creatine and DHEA, or at least a cort inhibitor like 7-OH-DHEA or PS.igf-1
hcg
clomid
Tribulus Terriestris
Arimidex
(IGF-1 sould be in anyones PCT)
no, a better idea would be to use it close to the end of the cycle, and use only anti estrogens post cycle.i think having a-dex (or preferably aromasin) at a low does pct is good ... it helps prevent estro rebound
i disagree, after a few weeks of PCT many people experience estrogen rebound and many have had success running low dose a-dex throughout (like .25mg eod or e3d) to kill off excess estrogen ... jmono no no , not like this, u guys have to post doses, timing, etc etc . come on, evryone start again .
no, a better idea would be to use it close to the end of the cycle, and use only anti estrogens post cycle.
Well, you never want to just destroy your estrogen level, true. But if you have elevated your estrogen on cycle (which is any cycle with test in it) your FSH output is going to be low. Even once your testicles start producing again, the test will contribute to estrogen levels and should be attenuated until you are normalized. You can recover LH in PCT without an anti-estrogen, but to restore volume and sperm counts, estrogen must be controled.Im not too keen on an AI post cycle. Your HDL/LDL is already skewed, and to further lower estrogen PC is not a good idea IMO. Dr. D correct me if Im way off base here.
For a 6wk PCT, here goes:So DRD.....in summary what is the ideal pct? And could you please give dosages as well
An AI like arimidex could cause a problem with recovery. Driving estrogen levels down during post cycle can be an issue as estrogen like or hate it is part of recovery. As mentioned, causing additional cholesterol issues is unwanted.i disagree, after a few weeks of PCT many people experience estrogen rebound and many have had success running low dose a-dex throughout (like .25mg eod or e3d) to kill off excess estrogen ... jmo
I was waiting for someone to say DHEA. I belive DHEA is invaluable for PCT, as has been spoken of in great dept of late.For a 6wk PCT, here goes:
*hCG 1000iu/wk extending 2wk into PCT
*Letro 0.1mg/d extending 10d into PCT
*Rebound could be used at low does all the way (25mg/d)
*Fenugreek(gnd whole seed) @ ~1200mg the first wk, and increasing 600mg/wk untill PCT is over.
*IGF @ 20iu BID all the way
*DHEA 100mg BID (morn and noon)
*7-OH-DHEA 50mg @ 6pm
*Clomid 300mg day1, 150mg day2-3, 100mg day 4-10
*Nolva 60mg day 11-14, 40mg wk3, 20mg wk4, 10mg wk5-6
*Creatine 5g/d (more or less depending on the form)
We've started a revolution brother! Just remember to be humble Bow, and don't say 'I told you so' too many times when it really catches on!I was waiting for someone to say DHEA. I belive DHEA is invaluable for PCT, as has been spoken of in great dept of late.
That's a great application Rob, like start taking it with your lowest dose of Nolva so it overlaps a bit right at the end of the cycle. Then take it a few weeks more just to be sure. I've been hearing that it rivals Nolva in it's gyno benefits. I've heard about 4 guys so far saying it works better than Nolva and even squashes out long-standing gyno. So I say, why not try it like that?Nolva: 60/40/40/20/0
ReboundXT: 0/0/50/25/25
7-OH PFO: 600mg EW X 5 weeks
CEE: 5g ED
DHEA: 100mg ED X 5 weeks
IGF-1: Don't know much about it. I hear its good tho
Really the only thing different than everybody elses is that rebound xt starting toward the end of PCT. I always get a gyno flare up the week after I taper off Nolva. I think thats due to the excess estrogen the nolva gives thats still there once I come off it and the estrogen receptors start working again. I think if I use a suicide inhibitor like rebound xt it will kill the excess estrogen I get from the nolva at the end of PCT and prevent the gyno flare up. Any thoughts?
My thoughts exactlyThat's a great application Rob, like start taking it with your lowest dose of Nolva so it overlaps a bit right at the end of the cycle. Then take it a few weeks more just to be sure. I've been hearing that it rivals Nolva in it's gyno benefits. I've heard about 4 guys so far saying it works better than Nolva and even squashes out long-standing gyno. So I say, why not try it like that?
DHEA morn and noon- should I take an anti-E with it, such as 6-oxo with DHEA to block any e forming and my nolva at night. The ideal times for everything is the only part messing with me right now.For a 6wk PCT, here goes:
*hCG 1000iu/wk extending 2wk into PCT
*Letro 0.1mg/d extending 10d into PCT
*Rebound could be used at low does all the way (25mg/d)
*Fenugreek(gnd whole seed) @ ~1200mg the first wk, and increasing 600mg/wk untill PCT is over.
*IGF @ 20iu BID all the way
*DHEA 100mg BID (morn and noon)
*7-OH-DHEA 50mg @ 6pm
*Clomid 300mg day1, 150mg day2-3, 100mg day 4-10
*Nolva 60mg day 11-14, 40mg wk3, 20mg wk4, 10mg wk5-6
*Creatine 5g/d (more or less depending on the form)
Maybe not exactly, but something very close to that. I know most guys PCT for about 4wks but I do it 6-8wks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no rebound effect from estrogen on Nolva?That's a great application Rob, like start taking it with your lowest dose of Nolva so it overlaps a bit right at the end of the cycle. Then take it a few weeks more just to be sure. I've been hearing that it rivals Nolva in it's gyno benefits. I've heard about 4 guys so far saying it works better than Nolva and even squashes out long-standing gyno. So I say, why not try it like that?
No, you are right Ryan, just an absentee effect once it's gone and it's rare given you did a proper ramp down and the length of Nolva's active metabolites even if you didn't ramp right. But a rebound effect can result from non-steroidal AI's like letro and ana after about 3months of excessive dosing.Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no rebound effect from estrogen on Nolva?
I'm not sure if there is a rebound effect or what causes it, but gyno flares like clockwork whenever I come off Nolva following PCT. Maybe theres an extra sensitivty to estrogenic effects after the receptor were blocked for a month straight. This happens even if I slowly taper down the dose.Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no rebound effect from estrogen on Nolva?
I know this has probably been talked about the DS forum extensively, but can ReboundXT totally take the place of novla. Are they both the same cataogory of compound?
My post on this thread is about using both.which is the superior pct product? Nolva or Rebound? Could one use both for pct?
I would invert the Rebound with the Nolva, for example:what about this pct...in theory
Nolva 40/20/0/0
ReboundXT 75/50/50/25
Oratropin(IBE) 1 oral syringe ed for 1 month (2 kits)
I hear that.. My bank account would just laugh at me!!that looks pretty good undertaker, but your pct is gonna cost
more then your actual cycle is. I've read a few reviews on
oraptropin and it looks promising, but my bank account would
hate me.
with rebound being a suicide inhibitor, will it drop levels below
what is benificial? Are there potential problems with associated
with this?
I think you could lower it a little. They are different, but until I've experimented more with LX, I'm just basically going to sub mg/mg. So instead of 250mg DHEA, 200mg + 50mgLX or 150mg + 100mg LX. Then fine tune from there, but it's really not that simple, that's just my starting point for testing different ratios.Dr. D and others: If we use something like LX (which is 7OXO-DHEA), would dosing DHEA as well in PCT need to be lowered because of the similarities, or are they 2 totally different things? In other words, if you use DHEA @ 200mg for PCT, then you add 150mg of LX, would you cut the DHEA dose at all or not? Thanks!