Safest Testosterone Supplementation for Sensitive People?

[ucimigrate]

Hello Everyone,

I'm looking to safely raise my testosterone levels from about 300 points (from my current level of 400 to a level of about 700).

I should mention I am extremely sensitive; the androstendiol ten years ago made me highly estrogenic, needy, and manic.

I've tried androgel, anavar, and primobolan depot. Even on 10mg's of legit anavar, I become hypomanic. On 5mg, every 8 hours, not so much. But, I still become very aggressive, have my filter turned off, and over-react if people get into my personal space.

1. What is the safest substance in the world to take? (I'm guessing 2.5 mg of Anavar would be a great place to do, for months on end).

2. What about these SARMS? How do you know Ostarine is legit and not dangerous? What are people's experiences?

Thanks

 

[Kickstart7]

Anavar won't raise your natural testosterone and neither will SARMS to my knowledge. If anything it will suppress the production of natural test levels if that's what your asking.

 

[Spaniard]

Anavar won't raise your natural testosterone and neither will SARMS to my knowledge. If anything it will suppress the production of natural test levels if that's what your asking.

Correct, these substances will lower levels.

I would venture to say with your bad previous episodes you should probably not use anything that messes with your hormones.

A 300 ng/dl increase of endogenous testosterone isn't going to happen with anything natural. If you have a decent enough doc you might be able to talk to him or her about a Clomid or hCG restart protocol

 

[dezzy84]

I agree with Spaniard. I would look into HRT but sounds like you have if you tried Androgel. How bout getting your mental health stabilized with medication/treatment then try hrt?

 

[ucimigrate]

Thanks, guys. I've done all this stuff. I'm abroad; so, I can legally get anything at any pharmacy.

It's hard, because I have a hard time putting on muscle and strength (but not fat).

I just want something safe. I've spoken to some researchers and they say testosterone cyp has the fewest bad byproducts (albeit more estrogen conversion). What would you do if you were me?

Why would such a low dose of Anavar do such; girls and children can take 10mgs a day and not have psych issues.

 

[Kickstart7]

Low amounts of abaca aren't going raise your natural test.

 

[Kickstart7]

Low amounts of abaca aren't going raise your natural test.

anavar .. Idk why it auto corrected to that

 

[Spaniard]

Everyone reacts to certain things differently. The women and children you're talking about likely have other ailments warranting their use, which means that the side effects may be masked from the condition they were prescribed Anavar for originally. To be honest though I'm not sure what women and children you're talking about though. Patients with muscle wasting diseases or...?

Either way, if you're gaining fat and no muscle you should likely look to your diet as the culprit unless you have underlying issues. For you, and don't take this the wrong way, I think you should get a full physical done including Labs that assess your hormone levels on top of the usual CBC etc.

This will do a few things for you. It'll give you peace of mind knowing nothing is wrong and will allow you to start focusing on lifestyle changes to fix issues that you yourself can change, without hormones.

Places to start are making sure you're getting adequate sleep, ensuring a decent diet, which is usually the hardest part for people. Not because it's hard to do but the honesty it takes to be able to be critical about oneself is hard. 95% of the time it's diet, plain and simple

Good luck man

 

[BRUstrong]

OP, how old are you? I'm just asking to get a better idea of how low your levels are compared to your age. Also, what is your family situation? If you plan on having kids in the future, you need to be careful what you take. I am 31 and have been on TRT for about 1.5 years. My test levels before HRT were in the low 200s. Because my wife and I are trying to have kids, my doc put me on Clomid at 50 mg EOD to maintain fertility. He straight up told me that had I listened to another doctor that wanted to either put me on Androgel or test cyp, there would have been a good chance I'd be infertile. FWIW, he is one of the head urologists at the Cleveland Clinic.

I'd heed the advice above - a lot of times diet can play a huge role in hormone levels. Before starting TRT I made sure I had my diet in check for a few months (e.g., consuming enough fats) to try to boost my test naturally.

Just be careful, because sometimes the quickest fix can have some pretty severe lifelong consequences. Good luck bro!

 

[kisaj]

I was still keeping muscle mass and strength on 200levels of natural testosterone. Staying in physiological levels is not going to do much for actual strength and mass unless you are teetering on the very low end. Boosting it can help mood, energy, memory, etc, but I do not think this is your issue. As mentioned, most likely diet and possibly your actual routines.

 

[BRUstrong]

I was still keeping muscle mass and strength on 200levels of natural testosterone. Staying in physiological levels is not going to do much for actual strength and mass unless you are teetering on the very low end. Boosting it can help mood, energy, memory, etc, but I do not think this is your issue. As mentioned, most likely diet and possibly your actual routines.

Great call. I should have pointed out that when I was testing in the 200s I wasn't having many issues with muscle mass. Even now that I am between 500-700, I haven't seen any dramatic increases in strength or mass. The reason I got tested was because I had no energy, I was foggy, and most importantly, I had no libido. My wife started to think I was cheating on her! So yes, the most dramatic effects of supplementation have been on mood, energy and libido

 

[booneman77]

Surprised no one else has suggested this but for a nice little test boost what about clomid? It's been shown to raise levels pretty much right on par with what you're looking for and isn't exogenous so it won't shut you down rather it'll increase natural production.

 

[kisaj]

Because clomid isn't an answer for anything long term and it increases e2 significantly. In addition, people tend to experience sides.

 

[BRUstrong]

Because clomid isn't an answer for anything long term and it increases e2 significantly. In addition, people tend to experience sides.

Clomid definitely is not a life long solution but it depends on how long he will be on it. I have been on Clomid for 1.5 years with no sides and regular blood work. Now granted, I was not prescribed an ai, but I do use Formeron at 1-2 pumps/day. However, I am only using Clomid for TRT until fertility ceases to be an issue, then my doc will switch me to test. They have human studies that show Clomid is safe for TRT in males 5 years out.

Bottom line is that OP probably needs to see an endocrinologist or urologist to determine the cause of his issues and get a safe/effective solution

 

[kisaj]

No question there.

 

[Spaniard]

Edit

 

[Spaniard]

Correct, these substances will lower levels.

I would venture to say with your bad previous episodes you should probably not use anything that messes with your hormones.

A 300 ng/dl increase of endogenous testosterone isn't going to happen with anything natural. If you have a decent enough doc you might be able to talk to him or her about a Clomid or hCG restart protocol

Surprised no one else has suggested this but for a nice little test boost what about clomid? It's been shown to raise levels pretty much right on par with what you're looking for and isn't exogenous so it won't shut you down rather it'll increase natural production.

Someone did

And in the attempt to eliminate confusion it is exogenous. Anything foreign is exogenous. Something in the body is endogenous. The reason these don't suppress natural levels is because one (Clomid) acts on the estrogen receptor and the other (hCG) signals endogenous testosterone production by mimicking gonadotropins

 

[booneman77]

Someone did

And in the attempt to eliminate confusion it is exogenous. Anything foreign is exogenous. Something in the body is endogenous. The reason these don't suppress natural levels is because one (Clomid) acts on the estrogen receptor and the other (hCG) signals endogenous testosterone production by mimicking gonadotropins

Well said... I meant it more as its not an exogenous hormone, but you are exactly correct here. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Kickstart7]

Is nolva a possibility as well?

 

[ucimigrate]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the posts.

1. Basically, I've always had a harder time gaining muscle/strength and losing fat than others. I'm looking for things that minimize sides.

2. I have worked in five countries abroad now, and traveled to about ten of them in the last few years. I have come to the conclusion that the US is the most puritanical about testosterone therapy, while being way too lax about other drugs (i.e. psychiatrists prescribing stimulants, downers, and pain medication like no other).

So, it's fair to say I have access to all these ways to get gear, if I need. And, it's technically legal (since I am breaking no laws, and can go right into any pharmacy and buy it).

Turkey is the best. There's a pharmacy on every corner; and, because it's a serious crime to counterfeit compounds, it's all legit. Prices are even government regulated.

Primobolan is $4 for vial
Anavar is $75 for 10mg *100
HGH prices are about 1/3 of US prices
Every other type of testosterone (including Anadrol)
Clomid, Nolvadex are all at low prices

3. In my personal experience, I've tried three compounds:

a. Androgel (I got it when I got out of the military). I felt a little bit better; but, no weight gain. My bloodwork said high IGF-1 and elevated estradiol; but, no huge testosterone out of the reference range, etc.

b. Anavar, 5 mg * every eight hours. I definitely felt stronger in the gym. My appetite went up like a horse (probably doubled calories). I gained about 15 lbs and spent a year after that trying to lose it.

c. While I was on these compounds, I took Nolvadex and sometimes clomid; always off cycle and sometimes on cycle. I always wanted to be on the safe side (even if clomid may have had no effect and Nolvadex take down IGF-1).

d. I never noticed any mood problems on the androgel. But, I did notice some effects on Anavar. I felt very "solid" (probably from gluco-corticoid blocking); but, I became more verbally instigating. If anyone didn't react the way I wanted to when I was verbally more snappy, or, if they got into my personal space, I lashed out verbally. I felt like it was taking away my ability to be patient and avoid conflict. I tended to welcome it.

5. It's hard, because Anavar gives me such a positive, euphoric feeling. Even 10mg's before one of my 6 mile runs felt great. I can see why it can be addictive; it feels like a stimulant without any come-down.

6. I did have fertility tests when I was getting off the androgel. I was fertile, they say. To my knowledge, testosterone therapy doesn't cause any permanent infertility.

7. What do you guys think of all this? I just want to find something that gives me more energy and vigor in the gym (as Anavar did); but, I want the smallest possible dose. Hence, 2.5 mg's of Anavar would seem fine.

 

[Kickstart7]

Y not a preworkout then if you simply want more push in the gym?

 

[BRUstrong]

I think your conclusion in #6 is way too broad. I'm not an expert but I'd tread lightly if you want to have kids. FWIW, my urologist is with the Cleveland Clinic, which is one of the best hospitals for urology in the US (might be #1 this year). There are also a ton of studies done. Here is a link to one:

http://www.amepc.org/tau/article/view/2249/3145

Not trying to be a dick, just want to give you my personal experience

 

[BRUstrong]

I guess the timing would also make a difference. I don't know if you want kids at all or if trying is in your near future. If it's not even on your radar for a few years, then you have some options to restart sperm production

 

[booneman77]

Y not a preworkout then if you simply want more push in the gym?

I agree with this. If all you're looking for is more motivation and drive for gym time, find a good pre and possibly supplement with something like anabeta or another "mass building" natural compound.

If you're using steroids just to get you in the gym and feeling good you're doing them for all the wrong reason.

 

[ucimigrate]

1. All very good points. To me, the thing I wanted was the safest dose of the safest product to supplement with. I'm guessing 2.5mg of oxandrolone or a very small quantity (say 50ml/week) of testosterone cyp is the best.

2. To me, I'd only do them if I had the ability to have a doctor monitor me (much as they did in Saudi or Turkey). Over there, medical care is high quality and EVERYTHING is 100% FREE.

I actually had one of my students, a doctor, research oxandrolone. He was actually surprised because it doesn't seem to shut down HPTA axis function. I'm guessing the 2.5 mg would be very safe.

3. I've had fertility tests, etc. done. They said I was still fertile.

4. I've just noticed that when on TRT, I generally feel better, have a lot more vitality (not just the wired pre-workout feeling) and enjoy life more.

 

[pizzadrol]

If the only issue with androgel or test was the estrogen conversion why not use something to control estrogen as well? I've never researched long term AI use but it may be viable if your only issues were estro related.

 

[booneman77]

you wont see anything gains wise from those types of doses. They actually might make you feel worse as they'll shut down your natural production but may not be enough to replace all the functions... just a thought.

 

[pizzadrol]

you wont see anything gains wise from those types of doses. They actually might make you feel worse as they'll shut down your natural production but may not be enough to replace all the functions... just a thought.

Would that matter though? I don't see how a lose dose of exogenous test would leave him with lower levels overall. If it's only a minor dose would it still be tremendously suppressive?

Also, the OP isn't inquiring in regards to anabolic purposes so assuming a low dose will still raise his levels overall I'm sure it'd be sufficient for what he wants to do. It just appears estro conversion is a big thing he needs to avoid given his experiences

 

[booneman77]

Would that matter though? I don't see how a lose dose of exogenous test would leave him with lower levels overall. If it's only a minor dose would it still be tremendously suppressive? Also, the OP isn't inquiring in regards to anabolic purposes so assuming a low dose will still raise his levels overall I'm sure it'd be sufficient for what he wants to do. It just appears estro conversion is a big thing he needs to avoid given his experiences

The dose hardly even matters. All your body sees are more hormones then it needs and therefore shuts down natural production.

The issue with the tiny doses is that when your body shuts down the natural production (which it will no matter how small the dose), the small amount of exogenous hormone you're adding won't be enough to compensate for what would've been there naturally. Thus leaving you with less then you started with and zero naturally produced. A low dose will only raise the levels if it's more then your natural production (which at the suggested doses you would have to have insanely low levels to be better off)

Estro conversion is easily treated with a proper ai and some diet control. If that's the main concern, that's an easy fix.

 

[pizzadrol]

The dose hardly even matters. All your body sees are more hormones then it needs and therefore shuts down natural production.

The issue with the tiny doses is that when your body shuts down the natural production (which it will no matter how small the dose), the small amount of exogenous hormone you're adding won't be enough to compensate for what would've been there naturally. Thus leaving you with less then you started with and zero naturally produced. A low dose will only raise the levels if it's more then your natural production (which at the suggested doses you would have to have insanely low levels to be better off)

Estro conversion is easily treated with a proper ai and some diet control. If that's the main concern, that's an easy fix.

Thank you for clarifying. There's a lot of misinformation on the boards regarding shut down, degree of shut down, etc. So what you're saying is that if the body senses an exogenous hormone, ie testosterone enanthate, then it will shut down naturally production entirely and the users test levels will be a direct reflection or their dose of test E?

Moreover, I ask that could a prohormone theoretically put me in a worse anabolic state? Say I was taking an obscure dose of say 10mg halodrol, would that still shut down my natural test production thus leaving me with the anabolic powder of a half a single serving of halodrol? Or would my natural test levels remain unaffected due to such a mild compound in such an arbitrarily low dose?

 

[booneman77]

Thank you for clarifying. There's a lot of misinformation on the boards regarding shut down, degree of shut down, etc. So what you're saying is that if the body senses an exogenous hormone, ie testosterone enanthate, then it will shut down naturally production entirely and the users test levels will be a direct reflection or their dose of test E? Moreover, I ask that could a prohormone theoretically put me in a worse anabolic state? Say I was taking an obscure dose of say 10mg halodrol, would that still shut down my natural test production thus leaving me with the anabolic powder of a half a single serving of halodrol? Or would my natural test levels remain unaffected due to such a mild compound in such an arbitrarily low dose?

Any exogenous hormone (including ph's) at ANY dose will cause your body to assume it has more then it needs and shut down natural production. At this point, exactly as you said above, your "hormone level" will be solely based on whatever your putting in your body (in this case a baby dose of halodrol). You either jump in the pool or stay on the grass with steroids. There's no dipping your toes in so to speak.

 

[pizzadrol]

Any exogenous hormone (including ph's) at ANY dose will cause your body to assume it has more then it needs and shut down natural production. At this point, exactly as you said above, your "hormone level" will be solely based on whatever your putting in your body (in this case a baby dose of halodrol). You either jump in the pool or stay on the grass with steroids. There's no dipping your toes in so to speak.

Reason I ask is I have a friend who's natural T is over 1000, would he theoretically make better results naturally than running a weak PH? Since say 50mg of Hdrol would shut him down, following what your saying he'd essential need to cycle strong compounds to put himself in a position better than he is naturally


Thanks again. These are things that I feel get misunderstood a lot

 

[booneman77]

Reason I ask is I have a friend who's natural T is over 1000, would he theoretically make better results naturally than running a weak PH? Since say 50mg of Hdrol would shut him down, following what your saying he'd essential need to cycle strong compounds to put himself in a position better than he is naturally


Thanks again. These are things that I feel get misunderstood a lot

Yes, if I were him I'd stay far away from a ph at all. If he were to go dark, it would almost have to be injectable to be worth his while.

If he has natural test levels of 1000 he'd be crazy to risk permanent damage to his natty test with a ph cycle. Really any ph is barely gonna get you much higher then that. You figure a standard test cycle of 500mg/wk usually puts people at 1300-1800 so he's almost there naturally. The chance of his natural levels coming back 100% even with a perfect pct is too risky.

 

[SweetLou321]

Yes, if I were him I'd stay far away from a ph at all. If he were to go dark, it would almost have to be injectable to be worth his while.

If he has natural test levels of 1000 he'd be crazy to risk permanent damage to his natty test with a ph cycle. Really any ph is barely gonna get you much higher then that. You figure a standard test cycle of 500mg/wk usually puts people at 1300-1800 so he's almost there naturally. The chance of his natural levels coming back 100% even with a perfect pct is too risky.

Where did you get that number for test levels on 500mg? On 200mg of test c pharm grade my test levels come back 1500+ 7 days after the shot.

 

[booneman77]

Where did you get that number for test levels on 500mg? On 200mg of test c pharm grade my test levels come back 1500+ 7 days after the shot.

Just a rough guess. It's totally personal so some respond more then others. Also, there's a point of diminishing returns as well as no direct correlation between injected Amt and level so it's not like 500 will yield 2+ times the test level

 

[kisaj]

Where did you get that number for test levels on 500mg? On 200mg of test c pharm grade my test levels come back 1500+ 7 days after the shot.

That is definitely not the norm. If that is the case, 200mg is pushing you over 2000 levels.

 

[MuscleJ]

How mant times a week are you shooting the 200mg?. 500mg for me puts me at 1200-1300

Where did you get that number for test levels on 500mg? On 200mg of test c pharm grade my test levels come back 1500+ 7 days after the shot.

 

[SweetLou321]

That is definitely not the norm. If that is the case, 200mg is pushing you over 2000 levels.

Thats what it seems, my doc thought i was abusing so he told me to waot another week for a redraw and it came back 14 days after at 700.

 

[SweetLou321]

How mant times a week are you shooting the 200mg?. 500mg for me puts me at 1200-1300

That was one single shot of 200mg from my dr.

 

[MuscleJ]

Any other products you are on? If you don't mind what lab did you use? Like quest diag or labcorp?

That was one single shot of 200mg from my dr.

 

[SweetLou321]

Any other products you are on? If you don't mind what lab did you use? Like quest diag or labcorp?

Was on 50mg arimistane and 50mg dhea ed at the time, it was labcorp