propecia, DHT and weight trainning
03-14-2005 01:01 PM
propecia, DHT and weight trainning
Propecia is a drug used to treat alopecia (baldness). It works by inhibiting the enzyme 5a-reductase which converts testosterone into Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is an inducer of baldness in genetically prone people.
I'm considering using propecia and are concerned about the effects it may have in my workouts. I'm not huge (160) but want to bulk up to about 170 and wonder if the drug will have any negative effects. Does anyone have experience with propecia in regards to their workout routines?
03-14-2005 01:06 PM
it will make it harder to gain size
03-14-2005 03:04 PM
I forget but isnt that minoxidil? I've heard if used topically it wont affect your weight training only the site applied to. finisteride taken orally has been known to reduce dht in the body and its strength properties. this has been discussed before try searching.
03-14-2005 04:14 PM
Ive made gains while bein on propecia, dont worry bout it.
03-14-2005 04:45 PM
There is some evidence to support that propecia actually raises free testosterone, which would be a good thing. One thing I have never understood is, if this true, then why do some men report a loss of libido while using it. I know a Doctor, who is in his late 40's, who is also a bodybuilder, that uses propecia. He believes the research indicates it is beneficial for bodybuilding purposes as well as hair loss.
03-15-2005 11:21 AM
i've done a good bit of research on this topic.
Originally Posted by medc
if the reduction in DHT due to finasteride impacts muscularity, it is not a really large amount. i am currently on finasteride (going on 3 weeks) and it has yet to make a noticeable difference in either libido or muscularity...but then again, i'm on-cycle. i have heard numerous reports of guys who experience libido loss while on it for extended periods, however.
for your case - you are very likely so far below your genetic potential at 160lbs that a small difference won't even be noticeable. if you were 100lbs heavier and with a better feel for changes in your body/strength/appearance it might be more of a consideration.
one last bit - virtually every guy with MPB concerns who runs a test-based AAS cycle employs finasteride.
03-15-2005 07:26 PM
Before i took some time to actually consider the possibility of using finasteride i heard the loss of libido issue many times and i was obvioulsy concerned, but then i found out that it only occurs in 1.8% of the cases which isn't so bad.
Originally Posted by MacMan
I haven't done enough research but I think it's safe to assume that libido is influenced by the whole gama of androgens not just testosterone. Also, both DHT and testosterone have different receptors, therefore is not only the amount of free hormone that counts - it's also the amount of available receptors. So a decrease in DHT coupled with a limited number of testosterone receptors might be a reason for the 1.8% loss of libido. But that's just a guess.
there are some links I found
03-16-2005 08:56 AM
don't believe that 1.8% salesmanship bull****. the companies responsible for bringing the product to market funded or coordinated those "studies" and they do NOT reflect the real-world frequency of libido loss in finasteride users. it is significantly more prevalent.
all i can say about that is - use it, and if it starts to impact your libido unfavorably and more than you are comfortable with, then stop and just stick with AA, nizoral and minox.
03-18-2005 04:22 AM
basically some of the side effects of finasteride/dutasteride are estrogen-related since the inhibition of the reduction of testosterone to dht leaves more substrate for aromatization end estrogen build-up. If I am not wrong among the probable side effects apart from libido loss and oedema is also gyno (all of these are estrogen-related).
03-18-2005 06:43 AM
Would orally administered finasteride help deal with prostate related issues as well, since DHT tends to do a number on my prostate?
03-18-2005 06:54 AM
there is proscar from merck which is overdosed finasteride ( 5 mg/tab) designed for prostata issues
I'd say that you need avodart (dutasteride) for this purpose bc it blocks both subtypes of the reductase, finasteride blocks only one of them as far as I know. Besides the effect on the DHT levels with avodart is rather quick and tremendous and the drug is designed rather for prostata treatment while propecia is basically developed as a hairloss remedy.
03-18-2005 07:00 AM
Ok, thanks for the good info. Questions on this avodart tho:
Originally Posted by boby-at
Would liver toxicity be an issue if I stacked it with a 17aa steroid?
How much would it inhibit my gains if I were on test based cycle?
03-18-2005 07:13 AM
no idea about the liver toxicity but any medicine even aspirin will be detoxicated in the liver. So there could be a risk - i really dunno..
about the test and the gains:
basically a lot of the gains on the test cycle are estrogen related. If you block the aromatization the gains will diminish. DHT on the other side gives you "the kick", aggression and also acne, prostata growth and baldness but it does not influence the gains directy (although there are people which are on the opposite opinion). A lot of people run test together with an aromatase and reductase inhibitor and claim not to have any sides while gaining good but I never tried this path, and most of these people run insane doses like 1 g per week and even more. Anyway I dunno if the gains will suffer but by switching the DHT off you switch off the main estrogen antagonist in the body and furthermore you will have even more test substrate for aromatization so you should be aware of estrogenic sides like water retention etc.. so may be some adex would be a wise investment
03-18-2005 09:20 AM
got any documented cases of gyno from finasteride use? i seriously cant imagine that happening, but i could be wrong.
Originally Posted by boby-at
i reckon, if the small amount of test that is reduced to DHT via 5-AR is freed up by finasteride, there will be somewhat more test circulating, but the amount that aromatizes is driven by the amount of aromatase present...i just cant see this being a huge factor.
as for this comment: "A lot of people run test together with an aromatase and reductase inhibitor and claim not to have any sides while gaining good but I never tried this path, and most of these people run insane doses like 1 g per week and even more." - that doesnt make a helluva lot of sense. COUNTLESS test-based (e, prop, cyp, etc) cyclers, from 250mg/week up, use AI's on a very regular basis to keep bloat and fat down and still get virtually identical results, once the cycle has completed. without an AI, there will naturally be more water and fat on-cycle, but that subsides during PCT. only a small percentage of juicers go to 1g/week.
03-18-2005 10:49 AM
"In postmarketing experience, the following adverse events have been reported: breast tenderness and enlargement; hypersensitivity reactions including rash, pruritus, urticaria, and swelling of the lips and face; and testicular pain."
and so on - it stays on the safety sheet too but i dont have any right now to quote.
To the other comments: the US juicers and the EU juicers have different approaches to juicing as far as I could see in the last couple of years so I'll leave this blank - anyone has the freedom of doing the "right" things and this is a quite personal definition.
03-18-2005 10:56 AM
What is the deal regarding finasteride and body hair? Does it have any kind of effect on reducing/slowing the growth of body hair?
03-18-2005 11:28 AM
Sledge's NHA has shown to prevent prostate hyperplasia even though it displaces DHT from SHBG. In fact, it acts on both known pathways of hyperplasia, namely DHT activation of AR and consequent increase of PSA and SHBG-RSHBG complex receptor signal transduction via cAMP. The NHA blocks the effects of DHT and E2 stimulating prostate hyperplasia, whereas 5a-reductase inhibitors may block dht but increase aromatization. Then excess E can bind to the RSHBG-SHBG receptor to illict hyperplasia in the prostate. Dutasteride has been known to aggravate gyno likely due to the aromatization of E. Sledge's NHA should not only protect the prostate but since it also binds to SHBG it will increase even if marginally hte effectiveness of a cycle. This product should also prohibit MPB via the same mechanism it blocks DHT AR activation in the prostate.
03-18-2005 11:35 AM
no idea about the body hair; hiwever i googled a bit and saw that its been used by women - http://www.hormonehelpny.com/column/hirsutism.htm with excessive body hair with success and it doesn't influence this in men - http://www.pjonline.com/Editorial/19...nasteride.htmlMaybe dutasteride could be more effective but I doubt it - otherwise it should be already famous
03-18-2005 12:02 PM
Thanks bro...been wondering this for a while....
I'll look into dutasteride
03-18-2005 12:04 PM
the more I hear about the nha the more I like it. ersatz you seem to be pretty knowledgable about the nha. do you have some inside info. not asking for any, I can wait, just curious.
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