safe to say designer steroids more bang for buck

FitnessLuke

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Okay Id like to run tbol or dbol, but really designer roids like hdrol/msten are way cheaper and at least there is quality control.

Wouldn't that make designer roids a better buy?

I mean the trade off is that theyre too new to see long term effects. However, roids made in the black market could be anything
 

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I'd disagree, just need a good source. Not to mention, if you have a good source you then have the healthier option of injectables.
 

FitnessLuke

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I'd disagree, just need a good source. Not to mention, if you have a good source you then have the healthier option of injectables.
Very true nothing beats injectables
 
Abe Lincoln

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If you don't want to deal with possible legal issues, I'd say the legal DS/phs are your best option.
 

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Where do you get the quality control aspect? Non of it's FDA approved so no quality control, it's just manufactured by a more reputable company until proven otherwise.
 

IFN15

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Very true nothing beats injectables
Results will be seen WAY faster with orals vs injectables. The problem is that they cant be utilized as long so they are technically not as good
 

Jerrad

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Results will be seen WAY faster with orals vs injectables. The problem is that they cant be utilized as long so they are technically not as good
Completely disagree with this. I've seen very fast results using short esters. There is no way orals are WAY faster than short esters.
 
Abe Lincoln

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Completely disagree with this. I've seen very fast results using short esters. There is no way orals are WAY faster than short esters.
My knowledge in injectables isn't vast, but maybe he was just speaking of using orals as kick starters as they hit fast. From what I have seen there is some with no esters at all?
 
Dma378

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Msten > Dbol in my opinion as an oral regardless of price or "quality control". Msten + Test = GAINZ!!
 
Abe Lincoln

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Msten > Dbol in my opinion as an oral regardless of price or "quality control". Msten + Test = GAINZ!!
This for sure. There are a lot of things I'd pick before dbol..
 

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My knowledge in injectables isn't vast, but maybe he was just speaking of using orals as kick starters as they hit fast. From what I have seen there is some with no esters at all?
I only have experience with short esters, so that's why response was about them. The whole oral is so much faster is really deceiving on many levels because some orals take awhile to really kick in...
 
Abe Lincoln

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I only have experience with short esters, so that's why response was about them. The whole oral is so much faster is really deceiving on many levels because some orals take awhile to really kick in...
True enough, mainly when people talk about kick starters they are talking about the fast acting orals or at least that is what I can imagine..
 

Jerrad

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True enough, mainly when people talk about kick starters they are talking about the fast acting orals or at least that is what I can imagine..
Yeah he was probably talking about kick starting a cycle with orals and likely has no idea that you can front load using short esters instead.
 

IFN15

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Yeah he was probably talking about kick starting a cycle with orals and likely has no idea that you can front load using short esters instead.
Jerrad i do have a very solid base of knowledge with ALL anabolics so why judge when you have no idea. Why use short esters then just use tne/suspension. No need to front load there.
 

IFN15

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Also which single injectable minus MTR "which can be taken orally "will give you the gains in 4 weeks that SD at 20-30 mg will?
 

Jerrad

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Also which single injectable minus MTR "which can be taken orally "will give you the gains in 4 weeks that SD at 20-30 mg will?
That wasn't your original statement. It wasn't simply that orals are faster, it was that orals are WAY faster. And they're not WAY faster than short esters, period. I'd take high dose test P against SD.
 
TeamTGB

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Okay Id like to run tbol or dbol, but really designer roids like hdrol/msten are way cheaper and at least there is quality control.

Wouldn't that make designer roids a better buy?

I mean the trade off is that theyre too new to see long term effects. However, roids made in the black market could be anything

There is so much fake and garbage quality product out there its ridiculous. With that being said there is a few and i mean few UG quality products. Yea im sure there will be ones that say there stuff is just as good as pharm grade but those are the people that have never used it lol. Now onto orals msten, dmz will provide greater gains than dbol or anadrol. Im talking solid tissue not bloat and they are made in clean facilities. But this is apples to oranges every compound has its place and some are better than others for certain situations it just depends on what your goals are.
 
hiprsha666

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My knowledge in injectables isn't vast, but maybe he was just speaking of using orals as kick starters as they hit fast. From what I have seen there is some with no esters at all?
He was talking about short ester injectables. Like test prop, tren ace, etc. There are injectables with no ester, most common is test, but tren base exists, and I've even seen boldenone also.

I only have experience with short esters, so that's why response was about them. The whole oral is so much faster is really deceiving on many levels because some orals take awhile to really kick in...
A lot of the fast effects of orals are from placebo effect that is perpetuated through broscience on forums. Probably true of short esters as well.

True enough, mainly when people talk about kick starters they are talking about the fast acting orals or at least that is what I can imagine..
Kick-start typically refers to an oral at the beginning of cycle. Front loading with higher doses of your injectable or with a short ester is called, well, front loading. Lol. Typically, though you could probably convey your idea using either.
 

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Jerrad i do have a very solid base of knowledge with ALL anabolics so why judge when you have no idea. Why use short esters then just use tne/suspension. No need to front load there.
Never used tne, seems like a whole lot of injections. Probably good for pre workout though.
 

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A lot of the fast effects of orals are from placebo effect that is perpetuated through broscience on forums. Probably true of short esters as well.
A little placebo is possible with anything I guess...Always seemed legit to me, for whatever that's worth.
 

IFN15

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That wasn't your original statement. It wasn't simply that orals are faster, it was that orals are WAY faster. And they're not WAY faster than short esters, period. I'd take high dose test P against SD.
Okay there is way to many variables that could happen, one example would be 30-50 mg of dbol versus masteron dipropionate '' short ester'' very easy to tell which will provide greater gains, example 2 100 mg of var vs test propionate another obvious choice. So the main factor is what the user is trying to acomplish.
 
jbryand101b

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Completely disagree with this. I've seen very fast results using short esters. There is no way orals are WAY faster than short esters.
Then you've never used a quality superdrol product.
 
jbryand101b

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I only have experience with short esters, so that's why response was about them. The whole oral is so much faster is really deceiving on many levels because some orals take awhile to really kick in...
This is really redundant.
Some orals take a while, some injectable take a while.
Are you thinking before you post.
 
jbryand101b

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Jerrad i do have a very solid base of knowledge with ALL anabolics so why judge when you have no idea. Why use short esters then just use tne/suspension. No need to front load there.
This if your gonna go for that, test suspension and 4-androstenediol both are like boom! About thirty min after taking.
 
jbryand101b

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That wasn't your original statement. It wasn't simply that orals are faster, it was that orals are WAY faster. And they're not WAY faster than short esters, period. I'd take high dose test P against SD.
Na, test prop isn't faster than superdrol.
Tren ace maybe.
 
jbryand101b

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There is so much fake and garbage quality product out there its ridiculous. With that being said there is a few and i mean few UG quality products. Yea im sure there will be ones that say there stuff is just as good as pharm grade but those are the people that have never used it lol. Now onto orals msten, dmz will provide greater gains than dbol or anadrol. Im talking solid tissue not bloat and they are made in clean facilities. But this is apples to oranges every compound has its place and some are better than others for certain situations it just depends on what your goals are.
This is a good answer.
 

Jerrad

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Na, test prop isn't faster than superdrol.
Tren ace maybe.
You're the one who should think before you post. You just asked me if I taken superdrol because it's WAY faster than injectables. Now maybe Tren A is faster. Nice hypocritical statement.
 

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Now your just knit picking, we going to check grammar and spelling too?.
Not knit picking, it was in upper caps in the orig statement for emphasis. Orals are not WAY faster than short esters, period.
 
jbryand101b

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You're the one who should think before you post. You just asked me if I taken superdrol because it's WAY faster than injectables. Now maybe Tren A is faster. Nice hypocritical statement.
I said maybe. I'd have to run tren ace higher than 50mg/ed to see.
At 50mg e/d it isn't faster for me than using sd at 20mg/ed.
And that's quad an shoulder inject.
 

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I said maybe. I'd have to run tren ace higher than 50mg/ed to see.
At 50mg e/d it isn't faster for me than using sd at 20mg/ed.
And that's quad an shoulder inject.
You're just not reading the posts and simply jumping in to argue. The orig post states their WAY faster implying that it's not even up for debate. That's what the discussion is about.
 
jbryand101b

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With esterfied compounds enzymes in the blood have to remove the ester before it can become active and work.

Orals Will have to digest and make it through first pass metabolism.

These two factors will cause varying effects.
Jerrod may have an abundance of enzymes causing esters to act faster.
Am abundance of enzymes in the liver that metabolize steroids might cause slower results with orals.

The hypothetical possibilities are endless.
 
jbryand101b

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I don't care about the original post. I believe his post had been addressed already.
 

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So who all would pick superdrol/msten over dbol as a kick start?

I wanna do a mildish 8 week test cycle. Im looking at using dbol/tbol/msten as a kick start and then drop the dose and cruise another four weeks and then finish out with only the test.

Not lookin to dirty bulk so id use a low dose dbol like 20mg. With that in mind what do yall think?
 
Dma378

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So who all would pick superdrol/msten over dbol as a kick start?

I wanna do a mildish 8 week test cycle. Im looking at using dbol/tbol/msten as a kick start and then drop the dose and cruise another four weeks and then finish out with only the test.

Not lookin to dirty bulk so id use a low dose dbol like 20mg. With that in mind what do yall think?
I used Msten as a kick start to the only injectable Test cycle I've ever done and it was great. That's all I can say. Can't say much about Dbol other than a guy I work with that I got the Test from was using Dbol, and after cycle he shrank way more than I did. I did dirty bulk and he didn't. I definitely Post Cycled way better than he did as well. Point is, is that Msten rocks with Test. Kept 24 pounds after PCT. 5 weeks Msten, 10 weeks Test E.
 

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I used Msten as a kick start to the only injectable Test cycle I've ever done and it was great. That's all I can say. Can't say much about Dbol other than a guy I work with that I got the Test from was using Dbol, and after cycle he shrank way more than I did. I did dirty bulk and he didn't. I definitely Post Cycled way better than he did as well. Point is, is that Msten rocks with Test. Kept 24 pounds after PCT. 5 weeks Msten, 10 weeks Test E.
Insane results, how did you feel on msten? Like I hear you feel like absolute ****, but a lot of those ppl didnt have a test base, so im assuming thats why.. ?

Also you dirty bulked, but did you end up with lean gains due to msten?
 
Dma378

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Insane results, how did you feel on msten? Like I hear you feel like absolute ****, but a lot of those ppl didnt have a test base, so im assuming thats why.. ?

Also you dirty bulked, but did you end up with lean gains due to msten?
I felt fine even though I was sleeping like total ****. Almost everything I take F's with my sleep, but this had me sweating like a madman at night and tossing around. Would wake up pissed, but after being awake for a bit I realized I was never tired and always killed it at the gym. So lethargy never got me. I literally ate everything I could get my hands on. Put on 44 pounds!!! After PCT and chilling out on the calories at around the same BF% I was before cycle I was 24 pounds heavier and my shape was completely changed. Shoulders, chest, forearms, and upper back I looked like a new person.
 

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I felt fine even though I was sleeping like total ****. Almost everything I take F's with my sleep, but this had me sweating like a madman at night and tossing around. Would wake up pissed, but after being awake for a bit I realized I was never tired and always killed it at the gym. So lethargy never got me. I literally ate everything I could get my hands on. Put on 44 pounds!!! After PCT and chilling out on the calories at around the same BF% I was before cycle I was 24 pounds heavier and my shape was completely changed. Shoulders, chest, forearms, and upper back I looked like a new person.
Thats ****ing insane! What was your dosage??
 

IFN15

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So who all would pick superdrol/msten over dbol as a kick start?

I wanna do a mildish 8 week test cycle. Im looking at using dbol/tbol/msten as a kick start and then drop the dose and cruise another four weeks and then finish out with only the test.

Not lookin to dirty bulk so id use a low dose dbol like 20mg. With that in mind what do yall think?

Superdrol is on a whole other planet compared to dbol. My vote goes SD
 
Dma378

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Thats ****ing insane! What was your dosage??
This was my first cycle ever. I wish I knew half of what I know now!!!

Msten 10/15/15/20/20

Test E 500mg weeks 2-11 Twice weekly injections of 250mg.

I did pretty good with the dosing for my first cycle, but I could have ate and trained better.

Went from 180 to 224...204 after PCT same BF.
 

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I think some people have lost focus on the reason for the OP, it's not about how quickly the gains come, it's about the total gains you get and the most cost effective way to achieve and keep them.

I'm in the injectables camp on this one, it's safer, time tested and pretty cheap if sourced properly, now if you don't want to pin it's hard to say which is the cheaper route for your goals.
 

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This was my first cycle ever. I wish I knew half of what I know now!!!

Msten 10/15/15/20/20

Test E 500mg weeks 2-11 Twice weekly injections of 250mg.

I did pretty good with the dosing for my first cycle, but I could have ate and trained better.


Went from 180 to 224...204 after PCT same BF.
Ha dam that could be me.. Hell if I jumped to 195, but maintained single digit body fat id be set for life.. What was your pct and did you get your test back easily?
 
Dma378

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Ha dam that could be me.. Hell if I jumped to 195, but maintained single digit body fat id be set for life.. What was your pct and did you get your test back easily?
Nolvadex
Sup3r PCT
DAA

Didn't have an AI other than what's in the Sup3r. Feel like I bounced back rather quick. As I said it was my first cycle and my gauge on things was barely on track.
 
mixedup

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I've used them all including or sdrol at 30mg a day back when big Pete first logged it tprop 100mg ed and even ten ace 150mg a ed I'd put test prop and sdrol as kicking in about equal if used ed the fastest oral for me has been halotestin I respond well to dbol but if going otc at the moment favorite would be sten for bulking
 
Abe Lincoln

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I'm going to stock up on SD, while the getting is still good..
 

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