Advice for my 1st PH Cycle please

[Takman001]

Hi, I’ve taken in a lot of useful info from people here and now planning to start my first PH cycle after a small cut phase (Any input/advice would be much appreciated!)

Quick Background:
Turning 24 soon
BodyFat 20%, 78.5kg / 173lb, 5ft9.5inch
Been training 4years, been on and off first 3 years due to working abroad and other commitments at times
Goal: Recomp-More emphasis on gaining lean size and lose a small % Bodyfat

From reading up I’m leaning towards Hdrol as my first PH
(Any other comments about Epistane, or even cynostane,androtest would be helpful)

---PLAN---

PRE-CYCLE 1wk
Hawthorne Berry & Milk Thistle

ON-CYCLE 5week
Hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/75
Cycle assist or Organ shield,
Joint support + Fish oil + Taurine

PCT 5week
Nolva (Tamoxifen Citrate) 20/20/20/10/10
Erase Pro
Lean.Activate Xtreme
Natural test booster
Creatine
Pre-workout


***Pre-Questions***
Could I start my cycle on 20% bodyfat or should I try cut down first (I don’t really want to as I tend to lose gains alot but if it’s a must I will)
As Hdrol doesn’t aromatise would there be much estrogen in my body?, But would there be an increased likelihood of estrogen related sides at a high 20% bodyfat.

***OnCycle Questions***
1) Would Hdrol be an ideal choice as a beginner, as there are some non-responders to Epi
How is my Hdrol dosage and should be run 5 or 6weeks?
2) Due to the high recovery, should I bother taking rest days or have ½ cardio days as my rest instead?
3) Due to the high test could I workout for upto say 2hours max (can only workout once a day), would my test levels remain high through a long period or should I keep them short-1hrmax?
4) For training it’s suggested to keep volume high at a max 4set12rep range upping the weight only then

5) What is a legit Hdrol brand you can recommend? I’m from the UK so a legit site for me is Predatornutriton.co.uk
- >Halodrol from FUSION SUPPLEMENTS (4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3,17bdiol)
- >Halovar from PURUS LABS (4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol + Insulin Mimetic)
- >Helladrol from NEED TO BUILD MUSCLE (4-chloro-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3, 17-diol)

Or are most logged Hdrols here are legit and I should pick the best value for money??

***PCT Questions***
1) Should I run my PCT the same as my PH cycle (6weeks), meaning running my Nolva for 6weeks or tapering it off near the end?
2) If I start seeing 1st sign of gyno or a major shrinking of testes, should I run nolva 20mg for 5days whilst running Hdrol? As this would make an impact on gains should I look into an AI?

3) For my PCT I’ll need a lot of Nolva tablets, I’ve looked at unitedpharmacies-uk.md for Tamoxfen citrate, are these prices pretty standard?
- >Genox (Tamoxifen Citrate): £30 - 20mg (100 Tablets)
- >Cytotam (Tamoxifen Citrate): £50 - 20mg (100 Tablets)

4) For PCT training it’s been suggested a lower rep high weight session, I’m guessing this should be short to reduce cortisol??, ran with more recovery days?? maintain almost as much calories on cycle to keep muscle gains but not gain excess fat?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

My good god... That wall of text has a powerlevel over 9000!

-you should lower your bf% naturally to atleast 12-14%, especially if you want to bulk on cycle. With such high bf% you will gain more fat than usual and the possibility of estrogen sides IS greater.

1) halodrol is a great first cycle, I'd say even more so than epistane because of the non responder issue you addressed and possibility of rebound is more profound on epistane than halodrol. 5 weeks minimum and 6 weeks max. Could just go 75mg each week.
2) that would be personal preference and depends on how intense you lift. Halodrol isn't the god of steroids, so I'd say at least have 1-2 days rest a week.
3) again this is personal preference and dependent on your program. Remember you don't want to annihilate your muscles, you want to stimulate it enough to grow.
4) again personal preference lol. I'd say volume train during cycle and when on pct do low volume and heavy weight. The reason I say this is because your muscles on cycle will become stronger faster than the connective tissues, so your muscle could be stronger but you could pull something or tear.
5) Celtic labs, olympus labs, etc..

Pct
1) no. You run pct of nolva 4 weeks. 20/20/10/10.
2) your test will shrink on cycle a bit, shouldn't be major. An AI would be best bet to stop any on cycle issues. If it gets out of control than get off cycle and get some letro to kill it.
3) I'm not familiar with the euro, but that looks about right.
4) I'd say get in and get out. Have a good program and you shouldn't be in the gym for too long. I'd say low volume with heavier weights. Bps is coming out with a product that helps control cortisol and estrogen so keep your ear open for that. Keep calories at maintenance for your new weight after cycle.

 

[ewok53]

My good god... That wall of text has a powerlevel over 9000!

-you should lower your bf% naturally to atleast 12-14%, especially if you want to bulk on cycle. With such high bf% you will gain more fat than usual and the possibility of estrogen sides IS greater.

1) halodrol is a great first cycle, I'd say even more so than epistane because of the non responder issue you addressed and possibility of rebound is more profound on epistane than halodrol. 5 weeks minimum and 6 weeks max. Could just go 75mg each week.
2) that would be personal preference and depends on how intense you lift. Halodrol isn't the god of steroids, so I'd say at least have 1-2 days rest a week.
3) again this is personal preference and dependent on your program. Remember you don't want to annihilate your muscles, you want to stimulate it enough to grow.
4) again personal preference lol. I'd say volume train during cycle and when on pct do low volume and heavy weight. The reason I say this is because your muscles on cycle will become stronger faster than the connective tissues, so your muscle could be stronger but you could pull something or tear.
5) Celtic labs, olympus labs, etc..

Pct
1) no. You run pct of nolva 4 weeks. 20/20/10/10.
2) your test will shrink on cycle a bit, shouldn't be major. An AI would be best bet to stop any on cycle issues. If it gets out of control than get off cycle and get some letro to kill it.
3) I'm not familiar with the euro, but that looks about right.
4) I'd say get in and get out. Have a good program and you shouldn't be in the gym for too long. I'd say low volume with heavier weights. Bps is coming out with a product that helps control cortisol and estrogen so keep your ear open for that. Keep calories at maintenance for your new weight after cycle.

^this.
You should probably lower your bf first by changing your diet. I found the most success on a keto diet while cutting since its simple to eat carbs while bulking and then stopping while cutting. Maybe start when you get a 4 pack or something Shouldn't worry about sides that much if you plan out PCT and take care of your liver.

1) My first ph cycle was Epi + Trest. I think Epi is a better ph to start with because some people get gyno symptoms on hdrol. I haven't really heard of people having problems on epi. Then again I'm still a nooby so I could be wrong.

2) You should try to do cardio every 2 days after you're done lifting if you choose to just go on cycle without reducing your bf. A quick powerwalk on the treadmill before/after a workout always feels good though.

3) When I was on cycle I was doing 3-4 hour runs LOL. I still go 2-3 hours and I'm not on anything atm. Just depends on how much you wanna work.

4) Try different things out. I work every body part (including legs) twice a week, one day heavy (>5 reps) and one day 10-12 reps per set. Preference.

5) I like olympus a lot since they have entire cycles in one bottle.

 

[Takman001]

Alright my plan is looking:

PRE-CYCLE 2eeks
AICycle Support (1scoop per day)

ON-CYLE 5/6weeks
Hdrol 75/75/75/75/75/100 (25mg Breakfast, 50mg Preworkout)
Dermacrine 0/0/3/3/3/3/ (Start around 2or3weeks into cycle)
AICycle Support 1/1/1/1/1/1 (1scoop per day)
Taurine
Fish Oil
Glucosamine Sulphate

PCT 5weeks
Nolva 20/20/10/10/10
Erase Pro (Everyday 5weeks)
Lean Xtreme (Everyday 5weeks)
DAA


COST
Muscle Research Helladrol - £60
BPS Dermacrine - £43
AICycle Support - £36
Tamoxifen Citrate 60x10mg - £18
Erase Pro - £40
Lean Xtreme - £30
MP Taurine - £7
MP DAA - £21
MP Glucosamine Sulphate - £7
TOTAL = £262!!!!

- For Hdrol gone for Helladrol by muscle research due to having 180caps so can complete a full cycleCy
- AI's Cycle support seems to have higher concentrations of ingredients than other cycle assist products
so I am thinkin of running this as half serving pre-cycle and oncycle lasting on tub
- Gone for BP Dermacrine to battle Hdrol sides and hopefuly won't cause too much additional shutdown
BP Dermacrine seems to be out of stock everywhere (UK sites) but found it on Amazon.co.uk and hope it's legit
-DAMN £262 funding a 6week workout seems like alot

QUESTIONS
>So am I good to go with Helladrol than other brands?
>Is it ok to run Cycle Support half dose pre to on cycle?
>Should I risk BP dermacrine on amazon.co.uk, has lots of good reviews on amazon but again not sure
>Would Dermacrine be too much for a newbie's 1st PH cycle, or suggest any others?
>Again DAMN £262 funding a 6week workout seems like alot, could I drop something?

 

[kaikara]

If you want a barebones, you could drop the Glucosamine (doesn't do anything anyways), Lean Xtreme, Erase Pro, Taurine, and DAA.

Plenty of guys on gear recover on Nolva alone. I'd keep the Erase Pro and DAA though. Taurine is good for back pumps, but if you don't get them, then you won't need it. I'd also skip the Dermacrine, but that's just me.

 

[xhrr]

If you want a barebones, you could drop the Glucosamine (doesn't do anything anyways), Lean Xtreme, Erase Pro, Taurine, and DAA. Plenty of guys on gear recover on Nolva alone. I'd keep the Erase Pro and DAA though. Taurine is good for back pumps, but if you don't get them, then you won't need it. I'd also skip the Dermacrine, but that's just me.

You should definitely not drop taurine or DAA. I can think of better and cheaper AI's than epro like topical form or research chems but that's your call. LX is also a good addition for cortisol control during pct so I would keep that as well. I would keep everything except the glucosamine really with Derm dependent upon if you exp lethargy and loss of libido on cycle and want to combat it. Topical trest would work here too but then you definitely need a better AI if you go with trest.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Why not drop DAA or taurine? Nolva is really all you need for pct, some people don't even use a serm during pct, it takes longer to recover though and bigger chance of ****ing yourself up, but all to their own. Taurine can be dropped too. Drink tons of water and you shouldn't have to worry about pumps, I have yet to experience any pumps that bothered me so much that I needed to cry about it and take something to stop them.

 

[zcol94]

Why not drop DAA or taurine? Nolva is really all you need for pct, some people don't even use a serm during pct, it takes longer to recover though and bigger chance of ****ing yourself up, but all to their own. Taurine can be dropped too. Drink tons of water and you shouldn't have to worry about pumps, I have yet to experience any pumps that bothered me so much that I needed to cry about it and take something to stop them.

would 2 + gallons a day qualify as tons? Thinking on my first cycle as well

 

[Abe Lincoln]

would 2 + gallons a day qualify as tons? Thinking on my first cycle as well

In all honestly I suggest that you should always be sipping on water and at least go to the bathroom once an hour, while on cycle. You don't want that stuff building up inside of you, need to piss that out. Urine should be close to clear. 2+ gallons is reasonable, bit of course don't force it down. Too much water can be bad as well.

What you thinking for your first?

 

[stillchillin]

Great way to tell if you are drinking enough water is your pee should be clear 4-5 times a day

 

[zcol94]

In all honestly I suggest that you should always be sipping on water and at least go to the bathroom once an hour, while on cycle. You don't want that stuff building up inside of you, need to piss that out. Urine should be close to clear. 2+ gallons is reasonable, bit of course don't force it down. Too much water can be bad as well. What you thinking for your first?

I'm thinking epistane solo for 6 weeks working up to 45 mg by the 3rd week, but I still can't decide because I'm going to be bulking, I know it's my first cycle and I'm "supposed" to start with something mild but it seems all the milder ph's are more suited to ppl either cutting or trying to recomp

 

[Abe Lincoln]

I'm thinking epistane solo for 6 weeks working up to 45 mg by the 3rd week, but I still can't decide because I'm going to be bulking, I know it's my first cycle and I'm "supposed" to start with something mild but it seems all the milder ph's are more suited to ppl either cutting or trying to recomp

I'd go with low dose DMZ (30mg-40mg) for a first cycle. It is a bit harsh but nothing to worry about and still a good first cycle. Get some cel cycle assist and some tudca, you will be good to go. Also possibly add in something for a test base, like stano or bps dermacrine, trest could also be an option but than you'd have to get form. Just watch your BP, eat in surplus, drink water, and you will put on some solid lean muscle tissue and strength will sky rocket.

 

[zcol94]

I'd go with low dose DMZ (30mg-40mg) for a first cycle. It is a bit harsh but nothing to worry about and still a good first cycle. Get some cel cycle assist and some tudca, you will be good to go. Also possibly add in something for a test base, like stano or bps dermacrine, trest could also be an option but than you'd have to get form. Just watch your BP, eat in surplus, drink water, and you will put on some solid lean muscle tissue and strength will sky rocket.

and I think my cycle is decided then dmz has been in my head I just needed someone else to agree with me, thanks

 

[Abe Lincoln]

and I think my cycle is decided then dmz has been in my head I just needed someone else to agree with me, thanks

Good luck on the gains , what brand you thinking? Celtic labs you can dose at 30mg or olympus labs 40mg.

Also, plan on logging?

 

[zcol94]

I was gonna go olympus labs and yea I will log it, I have a log now in my sig but I'll probably do a separate one for dmz, my cycle is still a ways away though, probably sometime in January

 

[Abe Lincoln]

I was gonna go olympus labs and yea I will log it, I have a log now in my sig but I'll probably do a separate one for dmz, my cycle is still a ways away though, probably sometime in January

Nice I will look I to that when I can, I'm on mobile so can't see sigs. Funny I'm also going to cycle in January.

 

[Blergs]

my advice is run a test cycle with an oral like this. not an oral only cycle.
good luck

 

[Jerrad]

I would focus on cutting. I would go with a 2 month cycle of 11-oxo or furuza and simply focus on lowering your bf.

 

[Takman001]

Thanks for the advice.
I'll stick (for now) with Helladrol, AI Cycle Support, Nolva? and Taurine on hand
I'll hit Dermacrine IF I feel lethargic and libido loss and buy Erase pro/LXl DAA closer to pct


● Do I have to take liver support during PCT??, there's mixed thoughts that say it helps flush toxins and that there are no additional toxic damages in PCT.
That's 2-3 tubs of AI cycle support= pricey but guess cost effective against buying individual ingredients

● Since I'm going for a recomp which should be slightly above maintenance but even moreso due to being on a PH cycle??
As I'm 79kg 5' and 9 1/2" with a desk job so maintenance cals are around 2400 meaning around 3000cals for a recomp on cycle be ok??

● Also am I right to think
OnCycle: very high protein, very high carb, very low fat like2/4/0.5g per kg bodyweight
PCT: high protein, very low carb, high fat like 1.5/1/1g per kg bodyweight
But keep cals just above my weight's maintenance to keep gains made and minimise fat


I'll start by November and make a log thread if it helps any other newcomers