stacking winni, dbol, and no2.

[liljimmy]

is this a good stck for getting big and cut? if you have any suggestions please tell me. i wanted something that makes me very agressive too.

 

[glenihan]

man do a ton more research stacking two 17aa's is a bad move and test should be the base of every cycle ... try to get either "big" or "cut" you can't successfully do both at once ... if you can you are no where near ready for gear

 

[iwinulose2981]

i agree 100% with glenihan as always

not to mention that dbol has alot to do with water retention so using winny and dbol at the same time will be counter productive. real waste of time effort money.

 

[WOT]

IMO

the only time you should ever use Dbols is when you're trying to jump start a long acting Test cycle ...

otherwise .. NO

Winny will NOT MAKE YOU CUT ... dieting while using winny will help you keep mass that you've put on while getting cut from your diet and cardio ...

end of story.

as the bro's here said, pic one,

I'd rec to you, start with two bulking cycles ... then do a cutting cycle.

WOT

 

[RisenPhoenix]

Just finished a 5-week bulker using 50mg Winstrol/day and up to 50mg Dbol/day. Went from 185 to 200, and that figure is misleading because I have lost alot of fat as well, so more than 15 pounds of muscle were gained. I had 450g protein per day and usually 4000-5000 calories. I used the Growth Surge Part 2 for the duration of the entire cycle, except I added on an extra set to every exercise to increase volume a bit. I would usually wake up around 8 am, take 15mg Dbol and 50mg Winny, do another 15mg Dbol at noon, and another 15mg Dbol at 4 pm. Strength gains? Well my bench went up by about 20 pounds, which was a little unsatisfying, but I started doing 4 sets of 10 Squats with 315 and ended with 405. For deads, the poundages were identical. No hair loss (used Nizoral every 4 days or so), very little acne, a tiny bit of mood swings, absolutely NO testicular atrophy or impotence whatsoever. No hurting kidneys or liver or blood in my urine. I injected absolutely nothing. Anyway, as you were...

 

[Cuffs]

Dudes...common'. You guys are better/smarter than this. Do not stack these together. You may not have health issues now, but down the road...? Be responsible. Unless you don't care about your health and future.

 

[RisenPhoenix]

Well, in my cycle I was using 75-100mg of 17AAs daily. Now, many people use Winstrol by itself in these dosages (usually stacked with EQ or Test injectables) so what is the difference if I am using 2 different 17AAs? Either way, I am using the same net amount. Plus, Dbol and Winny seem to act in sort of a synergistic fashion with each other. It is OK to use 75-100mg of Winny or up to 150mg of Anadrol but someone who uses 25-50mg Dbol and 50mg Winny stacked is frowned upon? Also, long term health effects? It was a five week cycle. That is long enough to cause temporarily elevated liver enzymes, but no permanent damage. I was very pleased with my taboo cycle.

 

[ryansm]

Just finished a 5-week bulker using 50mg Winstrol/day and up to 50mg Dbol/day. Went from 185 to 200, and that figure is misleading because I have lost alot of fat as well, so more than 15 pounds of muscle were gained. I had 450g protein per day and usually 4000-5000 calories. I used the Growth Surge Part 2 for the duration of the entire cycle, except I added on an extra set to every exercise to increase volume a bit. I would usually wake up around 8 am, take 15mg Dbol and 50mg Winny, do another 15mg Dbol at noon, and another 15mg Dbol at 4 pm. Strength gains? Well my bench went up by about 20 pounds, which was a little unsatisfying, but I started doing 4 sets of 10 Squats with 315 and ended with 405. For deads, the poundages were identical. No hair loss (used Nizoral every 4 days or so), very little acne, a tiny bit of mood swings, absolutely NO testicular atrophy or impotence whatsoever. No hurting kidneys or liver or blood in my urine. I injected absolutely nothing. Anyway, as you were...

And the peanut gallery cheers. . .

 

[ryansm]

Well, in my cycle I was using 75-100mg of 17AAs daily. Now, many people use Winstrol by itself in these dosages (usually stacked with EQ or Test injectables) so what is the difference if I am using 2 different 17AAs? Either way, I am using the same net amount. Plus, Dbol and Winny seem to act in sort of a synergistic fashion with each other. It is OK to use 75-100mg of Winny or up to 150mg of Anadrol but someone who uses 25-50mg Dbol and 50mg Winny stacked is frowned upon? Also, long term health effects? It was a five week cycle. That is long enough to cause temporarily elevated liver enzymes, but no permanent damage. I was very pleased with my taboo cycle.

I'm sure you were, however, it's still not the smartest choice and I would say you could have had better gains off of a more thought out cycle. This is bad advice, especially to soemone obviously not well researched in the use of AAS.

 

[Cuffs]

Well, in my cycle I was using 75-100mg of 17AAs daily. Now, many people use Winstrol by itself in these dosages (usually stacked with EQ or Test injectables) so what is the difference if I am using 2 different 17AAs? Either way, I am using the same net amount. Plus, Dbol and Winny seem to act in sort of a synergistic fashion with each other. It is OK to use 75-100mg of Winny or up to 150mg of Anadrol but someone who uses 25-50mg Dbol and 50mg Winny stacked is frowned upon? Also, long term health effects? It was a five week cycle. That is long enough to cause temporarily elevated liver enzymes, but no permanent damage. I was very pleased with my taboo cycle.

This should be the poster child of what not to do.

 

[iwinulose2981]

Just finished a 5-week bulker using 50mg Winstrol/day and up to 50mg Dbol/day. Went from 185 to 200, and that figure is misleading because I have lost alot of fat as well, so more than 15 pounds of muscle were gained. I had 450g protein per day and usually 4000-5000 calories. I used the Growth Surge Part 2 for the duration of the entire cycle, except I added on an extra set to every exercise to increase volume a bit. I would usually wake up around 8 am, take 15mg Dbol and 50mg Winny, do another 15mg Dbol at noon, and another 15mg Dbol at 4 pm. Strength gains? Well my bench went up by about 20 pounds, which was a little unsatisfying, but I started doing 4 sets of 10 Squats with 315 and ended with 405. For deads, the poundages were identical. No hair loss (used Nizoral every 4 days or so), very little acne, a tiny bit of mood swings, absolutely NO testicular atrophy or impotence whatsoever. No hurting kidneys or liver or blood in my urine. I injected absolutely nothing. Anyway, as you were...

i said it before and ill say it again
winny and dbol is counterproductive. what your gaining with your dbol is being sucked out by the winny due to the high water retention you get with dbol. i would say the muscle you put on had alot more to do with the large amount of protein you were intaking each day rather then stacking dbol and winny. also most of the winny ive seen only comes in 2 mg tabs<---(i might be wrong but thats all ive ever seen) so if that is what you were using i bet it cost alot to put 25 in your body every day.

 

[exnihilo]

i said it before and ill say it again
winny and dbol is counterproductive. what your gaining with your dbol is being sucked out by the winny due to the high water retention you get with dbol. i would say the muscle you put on had alot more to do with the large amount of protein you were intaking each day rather then stacking dbol and winny. also most of the winny ive seen only comes in 2 mg tabs<---(i might be wrong but thats all ive ever seen) so if that is what you were using i bet it cost alot to put 25 in your body every day.

The european strombas I've seen are 2mg, but there are lots of UG lab winny that's dosed higher. The yellow thais are 5mg, I've seen some 10 and 15mg tabs, and 50mg is the standard cap for UG lab winny these days.

 

[iwinulose2981]

The european strombas I've seen are 2mg, but there are lots of UG lab winny that's dosed higher. The yellow thais are 5mg, I've seen some 10 and 15mg tabs, and 50mg is the standard cap for UG lab winny these days.

thanks i wasnt sure.

 

[Bean]

This should be the poster child of what not to do.

:hammer: :hammer:

cant go wrong wtih long-ester test and d-bol... but risenphoenix sounds like a nice article on what not to do as you said...

misinformation abounds!!! :drunk:

 

[RisenPhoenix]

Actually, it was liquid Winny and was not horribly expensive. Yes, I realize I could have done a more potent and "thought out" cycle of injectables. Only thing is, I can't inject up here at college for certain reasons I won't go into. I am not an idiot who thinks that Dbol/Winny is the best there is, but it certainly isn't as bad as you all are making it out to be. Yes, I am the poster child of what not to do. Screw gaining muscle and losing fat in a short period of time with little side effects and safe dosages. Excuse me while I go stick my tail between my legs and run away.

 

[glenihan]

Actually, it was liquid Winny and was not horribly expensive. Yes, I realize I could have done a more potent and "thought out" cycle of injectables. Only thing is, I can't inject up here at college for certain reasons I won't go into. I am not an idiot who thinks that Dbol/Winny is the best there is, but it certainly isn't as bad as you all are making it out to be. Yes, I am the poster child of what not to do. Screw gaining muscle and losing fat in a short period of time with little side effects and safe dosages. Excuse me while I go stick my tail between my legs and run away.

look we don't want people thinking this cycle is a good idea ... test should be the basis of EVERY cycle ... and i'm a firm believer if you can't or won't inject then stay the **** away from AAS because you aren't ready

 

[Skye]

its not as bad as every is making it out to be, yes, and yes 100mg a day of an oral is less then what a lot of people do with drol but that doesn't mean that aren't still some better options. I am one of the only people that will ocasionally recomend a dbol only cycle (ran right it does work, I have posted that info here). But running two orals is over doing it. You could have done just as well on dbol only (have seen people gain 20lb and KEEP it if they did what they were suposed to) Still there are better options, if you can't inject there are alway transdermal. Or there are other things you can stack it with (oral fina works wonders).

And BTW a lot of people may have disagreed but no one ever flamed me for the dbol only, I made a very good arguement for it and kept to the topic instead of getting upset. Granted the people above could have been a little more perductive but if you want to change anyones mind then you should make an argurement as to why you believe the way you do, the reasons behind, so on. Like I said, no one (that I would care about doing it) flamed me for that. It def works better then that last post

 

[RisenPhoenix]

Yeah, I was thinking about trying Dbol only as suggested by Bill Roberts, but I had heard good things about the synergistic effects of Dbol and Winny. This is going to sound as unscientific as it comes, but I felt as if the Winny helped make my gains permanent. I never felt bloated, I just got huge Dbol pumps with the characteristic Winny hardness and vascularity increases. Overall, I would do it again, but I won't, since I will be able to inject by the time I am ready for my next cycle.

I suppose it IS somewhat irresponsible of me to be encouraging a new poster to try this cycle. Obviously he would be better off injecting. I just felt that I had to defend the Dbol/Winny cycle because it gets such a bad rap, especially around this particular board. To the original poster, you would be much better off using test as your base. This summer I will be doing a 12-weeker with Dbol for 3 weeks at the start and Winny for the last 3 weeks. I also did not have access to transdermal test, and heard it is very expensive, so I didn't bother searching far and wide.

Cliffnotes: Dbol/Winny: NOT as bad a choice as people say; Dbol/Winny/Test: MUCH better choice

 

[Skye]

here is part of a FAQ I am working on. If your going to do oral only here are some ideas

Oral only cycles

Not keeping any of your gains on an oral only cycle is popular and common belief. This is not without reason. Many people don't keep their gains, not because of the type of drugs used or differences in potency but because of the type of people that use an oral only cycle. To make a success out of an oral only cycle you a. dedicated b. to be knowledgeable, c. disciplined. Most people (not all) that are all three don't tend to do the oral only cycles. They know that there are better options available and are going to use the safer, more effective methods to meet there goals. That usually involves other delivery types, specifically injections. So the irony here is that the very people that can make the most out of an oral only cycle don't use them while oral only cycles are the first cycles that the rest of the people tend to look at. They are the ones that don't want to inject, or rub themselves with smelly gels, or jest generally not willing to do what it takes. Newbies that are dedicated generally get talked into doing better things (or just learn). It really isn't to be wondered that people look down on orally only cycle.

However oral only cycles can be ran with success. And there are times when they are desirable. Anyone that has to travel should appreciate this. The key to success with them is four fold. First you must run a real full cycle. By that I mean you have to eat right, train right, get your sleep, and avoid taking shortcuts. In other words you need to be dedicated, the steroids are meant to help you along, not to be used as a crutch. Second is you cannot skip on your ancillaries, you need them to make this work right. This means using the appropriate anti estrogens, AI and/or SERMs. Third DO NOT SKIMP ON THE PCT. I don't know why but some people seam to think that they do not get shut down. Not true, PCT is as important as if you were running test. Fourth your supplements will make a big difference as well.

The following steroids are oral compounds that are designed (or will work regardless) to have oral availability. This usually done by two means; methylate the steroid to help prevent the liver from processing it or by using an ester that the body can absorb. The drawbacks to doing this are the methylated steroids all have some degree of liver toxicity and the esters suffer from low and/or uneven absorption. Also methylated steroids should never be used together if possible due to the liver toxicity. This obviously limits what you can do with oral steroids as most of the effective one are methylated.

Oxandrolone (Anavar, Var) Very safe but weak steroid. Methylated but surprisingly easy on the liver. Still it is liver toxic and should not be ran indefinitely. 8 weeks is as long as it should be ran. The main drawback to this steroid besides its strength is the cost. Anavar cost no more then Dianabol to manufacture yet cost sometimes as much as 20 times that of Dianabol. The reason for this is the US government got involved (are we surprised?) A law was passed that allowed companies to gain the equivalent of patents on drug that otherwise might not be worth their while if it was for AIDS. This coupled with the weak nature of the drug make it less then desirable for most.

Methandrostenolone (Dianabol, Dbol, Anabol) is covered in the common drug section. Probably the single best steroid if you are running an oral cycle. It is unfortunately also high in sides. Ancillary drugs are a must here. A Dianabol only cycle requires an AI and should also include nolvadex. Can be used for ether bulking or cutting. Bang for the buck this is it.

Oxymetholone (drol, A-bomb) is not recommend for first cycles (or at all by this author). Again the amount you need to run for an effective dose usually includes too many side affects. This is covered in the common drug section.

Stanozolol (winny, Winstrol) Same arguments as in the common drug section. On top of that it is mild steroid at best.

Trenbolone Acetate (tren, fina, finaplex H) This is a cattle implant (finaplex H) that contains the steroid Trenbolone Acetate. For more information on cattle pellets and such go to http://www.chemicalfitness.com/foru...hread.php?t=127 for details. All that is important for this topic is the nature of the drug and that in come in convent pellets that you can treat like pill. Trenbolone is a powerful steroid, on of the most powerful available. It is almost always used as an injectable despite having a 25% oral availability. Given that Trenbolone is expensive this is not hard to understand. Additionally even accounting for the absorption it STILL works better when injected. Still even so it is still 2 to 3 times as powerful as testosterone. With that being the case it is usually not a drug to be used by the novice with orally being the exception due to the limited number of steroids available for oral use. Still expensive even as an injectable you’re stuck taking 4 to 5 times as much if taken orally. For instance to dose yourself 50mg of trenbolone a day you have to 200mg worth of pellets, that is10 pellets, divided at least twice a day, being 5 pellets twice a day. 75mg is better and I would prefer 90mg a day (oral isn't as effective as inject) but that can get really expensive (That is almost one cart every 5 days so about 8 carts at 32 dollars a cart 256 dollars vs. 5 carts being 160 dollars worth of pellets) if you can swing it that would be much better. But is still a waste of money compared to injecting. Still if your going to go oral this is high on the bang for buck. For the best collection of fina article (old though) go to http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/fina.html

Methenolone acetate (Primobolan, primo) Another Acetate ester oral, this one has a better absorption rate some ware between 30 and 50%. So dosages start at 100mg a day preferable 200 and up to 300. A good steroid it is mild on the sides (notable it doesn’t do much to shut you down) with moderate gains you can take high doses if you wish with little on the sides. Did I mention you have to be rich to do this? One of the most expensive steroids on the market I have seen (literally) the tablets priced for more then twice what the whole tablet would weigh in gold. Recently some to the underground labs have been making these far more reasonable then that though. Still it is extremely expensive. It stacks well with anything and has the benefit of promoting you libido, useful if your using suppressive steroids. Additionally it stacks well with anything, with or replace testosterone (Trenbolone and Methenolone make for a awesome cutting stack). If you have the money then go ahead. For myself if I win the lottery my ass is going to the Bahamas.

Testosterone Undecanoate (Andriol) In a word this stuff is worthless. Designed to be an oral available testosterone (basically the body treats it like an oil so it bypass the liver) it just doesn’t work well. In some fashion most of the testosterone is destroyed requiring a starting dose of 240mg before you see even minimal results (doctors have prescribe HRT at 240mg a day). Worse the absorption rate changes day to day depending on what you eat, the time of day due to what your metabolism is like at the time and apparently the alignment of the stars. To add injury to insult the gel caps (the actual Androil tabs) are expensive. Even the doctors don’t like this stuff for HRT. Why they still make it I do not know.

For most oral only cycles the only thing I really recommend is Methandrostenolone. High bang for the buck and good results used alone it is one of the few drugs other then test that can be ran as a single drug cycle. Most everything else needs to have something stacked with it. Here is an example of a Methandrostenolone only cycle:

Here is a sample of a Dianabol dbol only cycle:
50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
.25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.

Here it is again with a minimal dose of fina. (360mg ED would be best)
50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
200mg Finaplex H pellets ED (5 pellets twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
.25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.

 

[Cuffs]

Only thing is, I can't inject up here at college for certain reasons I won't go into.

How about using a Test base transdermal? That would be a very good, and effective option if you are unable to inject.

 

[RisenPhoenix]

How about using a Test base transdermal? That would be a very good, and effective option if you are unable to inject.

It would have been wonderful. However, I did not have access to any, and did not try to search heavily for it since I heard it was ridiculously expensive. But I agree with you fully. I really wanted to use some. Nonetheless I am pleased with the results of my oral-only cycle.

 

[BOHICA]

Just finished a 5-week bulker using 50mg Winstrol/day and up to 50mg Dbol/day. Went from 185 to 200, and that figure is misleading because I have lost alot of fat as well, so more than 15 pounds of muscle were gained. I had 450g protein per day and usually 4000-5000 calories. I used the Growth Surge Part 2 for the duration of the entire cycle, except I added on an extra set to every exercise to increase volume a bit. I would usually wake up around 8 am, take 15mg Dbol and 50mg Winny, do another 15mg Dbol at noon, and another 15mg Dbol at 4 pm. Strength gains? Well my bench went up by about 20 pounds, which was a little unsatisfying, but I started doing 4 sets of 10 Squats with 315 and ended with 405. For deads, the poundages were identical. No hair loss (used Nizoral every 4 days or so), very little acne, a tiny bit of mood swings, absolutely NO testicular atrophy or impotence whatsoever. No hurting kidneys or liver or blood in my urine. I injected absolutely nothing. Anyway, as you were...

Could have gotten the same results with just a safer test cycle, without giving your liver the chance to jump out of your body later on down the road. 2 semi-good things, aren't gonna be great together. When will people learn that

 

[exnihilo]

man, test base is cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap. 100g of it from a good source would run me less than most "bros" pay for a vial of test from a source at their gym.

 

[BOHICA]

man, test base is cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap. 100g of it from a good source would run me less than most "bros" pay for a vial of test from a source at their gym.

yummy I want some test

 

[Cuffs]

It would have been wonderful. However, I did not have access to any, and did not try to search heavily for it since I heard it was ridiculously expensive. But I agree with you fully. I really wanted to use some. Nonetheless I am pleased with the results of my oral-only cycle.

No dude. You got some bunk advice. Test base is dirt cheap. You can make your own dermal, or purchase it already made from board sponsors here. A little bit of searching will go a long ways.