23 and cutting with PH, help me take back my body.

jamesjudo5

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Hey guys, been a part of anabolicminds and followed the pro scene when I was a young teen and just like many other fools ended up eating a ton of crap and gaining weight like crazy in a "dirty bulk", or at least that is what I told myself. Over the years I lost interest in pro bodybuilding and due to events in my life quit training for around 2-3 years of my life. I'm now 23 and about 2 months ago I moved out of my parents house at 230 pounds. I was stressed and depressed and frankly I really didn't enjoy seeing what I saw looking back at me in the mirror. My long distance girlfriend was my only solace and for her I decided to change my diet around and really get back to training and eating right. I go to visit her in February and I really want to look like my old self and feel young again not like an old man half the time. Anyway back when I was in shape I was between about 180-192 pounds at 5'10 vs my current weight. Over the last two months since I started I've lost about 15 pounds to where when I weighed myself on Friday I weighed 215. Here is my diet and workout routine.

I eat two meals a day in ketogenic fashion with each meal containing about 500-700 hundred calories coming from fatty meats like pork or chicken thighs supplemented with 3-4 fish oil caps or mct oil. One meal is at around 7pm before I head to work and another is around 7 am when I get home from work. Sometimes I'll eat eggs or a small salad with Cesar dressing instead but I try to keep my daily none fiber carbs to under 15 grams because my metabolism makes molasses look fast. I've found this to work in the past and it's currently working as I'm losing around a pound a week. I work from Monday night though Friday morning then go train after work. Currently I'm doing a once per week HIT routine with all compound lifts like squats, deadlifts and dips done to faliure.
I'm thinking to upping my training to twice a week as I adapt a bit but generally I'm incredibly sore after my first workout for at least 3-4 days.

So on to the prohormones.
To preface I want to explain I never took any compound in my teen years and I understand the risks of the Designer steroids I'm about to use. I work at a hospital so getting blood work done won't be a problem and I fully intend to be as safe as I can. However I'm not saying I know best and therefore I need help in setting up this stack for maximum effect. A particular concern in my mind is pct and a serm as so many seedy companies are about it's hard to tell who is legit and who is fake. Any Pm's my way would save me a ton of headache in this reguard.
So compounds, the two I've ordered and decided to run are Havoc's Epistane and Iron mags's Epi Andro. I tend to run on the watery side and have a bit of gyno from puberty that probably only surgery will fix so any form of wet compound was out from the start. I'm planning to run this for around 4-6 weeks and hopefully lean out a bit in the process. I'm also running a cycle support product and forskolin as well as sesamin and alcar.
Anyway any help would be appreciated even links to motivational videos or the like.
 
McCrew530

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Hey brother I really respect you wanting to get back into shape but if you have only been training I highly recommend you keep doing what you are currently doing. If you are getting results don't mess with your hormones at this time.
That being said there are a lot of logs on epistane on here so you should be able to research some great info on potential cycles. Also with something like epi you will need a SERM during pct which is one thing I didn't see you mention. Feel free to pm me brother with any questions.
 

jamesjudo5

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Hey brother I really respect you wanting to get back into shape but if you have only been training I highly recommend you keep doing what you are currently doing. If you are getting results don't mess with your hormones at this time.
That being said there are a lot of logs on epistane on here so you should be able to research some great info on potential cycles. Also with something like epi you will need a SERM during pct which is one thing I didn't see you mention. Feel free to pm me brother with any questions.
yeah I realize a serm is going to be needed I just don't know which companies produce real products and which ones fake I got burned once with clen when I was about 20. If it is allowed in site rules I would love to know a good source of research chems of that nature.
 
McCrew530

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yeah I realize a serm is going to be needed I just don't know which companies produce real products and which ones fake I got burned once with clen when I was about 20. If it is allowed in site rules I would love to know a good source of research chems of that nature.
Just look at the board sponsors there are a couple of good ones
 
tinytony

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Wow Tony where you been bro?
Haha sorry its been a busy summer. A comp in may, separating from my wife, prwppi g for comp in 5 weeks, changing jobs. Ho Lee Fuq its been busy. Plus it seems like so many of the faithfuls on here and trusted guys have disappeared: ( but I'm back to help or learn haha
 
McCrew530

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Haha sorry its been a busy summer. A comp in may, separating from my wife, prwppi g for comp in 5 weeks, changing jobs. Ho Lee Fuq its been busy. Plus it seems like so many of the faithfuls on here and trusted guys have disappeared: ( but I'm back to help or learn haha
Damn bro that is madness! How did the comp go?
 

jamesjudo5

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How long do you guys think I need to run the serm for after such a short cycle? Also which one do you recommend like from your own experiance.
 
McCrew530

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I like Torem, if you are going to run Epi run it for 6 weeks 4 is pointless. Run your Serm for 4 weeks .
 
Kylem

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I like Torem, if you are going to run Epi run it for 6 weeks 4 is pointless. Run your Serm for 4 weeks .
. Same. Torem works best for me and actually make sure you run it every day for the 4 weeks. Don't stop at two weeks just because you feel fine
 

jamesjudo5

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Thanks for the advice guys, planning on doing my purchasing this week then postings pics before I start.
 
reps4jesus

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Keep in mind there is no going back.
 

jamesjudo5

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Keep in mind there is no going back.
I don't understand like i'm not planing on ever competing do you mean like mentally or in what way? I'm just focused on trying to look nice and keep my body healthy.
 
reps4jesus

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I don't understand like i'm not planing on ever competing do you mean like mentally or in what way? I'm just focused on trying to look nice and keep my body healthy.
Once you start steroids. You will never stop. Trust me. My first time I grabbed something mild and said, ya know, I bet a run of this would get my body to a point i can be proud of myself. But every time it ended and you slowly loose some of that muscle and strength you say "one more cycle". And the cycle repeats till eventually you come to terms with the fact you will be pinning testosterone twice a week till the day you die.
 
Magdalena

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Once you start steroids. You will never stop. Trust me. My first time I grabbed something mild and said, ya know, I bet a run of this would get my body to a point i can be proud of myself. But every time it ended and you slowly loose some of that muscle and strength you say "one more cycle". And the cycle repeats till eventually you come to terms with the fact you will be pinning testosterone twice a week till the day you die.
Lmao...
:)
 

jamesjudo5

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Once you start steroids. You will never stop. Trust me. My first time I grabbed something mild and said, ya know, I bet a run of this would get my body to a point i can be proud of myself. But every time it ended and you slowly loose some of that muscle and strength you say "one more cycle". And the cycle repeats till eventually you come to terms with the fact you will be pinning testosterone twice a week till the day you die.
Well I won't lie I 100 percent believe what your saying is true for a lot of people. Maybe I'm that way and maybe I'm not. I guess it's a bit of a toss up because you know I'd like to have abs and be more muscular and stronger then what I am naturally. Dude when I was a teen I worked out for about 3 hours a day and all I did was sleep and study otherwise. You know for a lot of years I tried to lie to myself and tell myself that I just wasn't doing x or y right.the truth was and is I don't have the best genetics for having a nice pair of abs and huge muscles. On the counterpoint I could probably study like 2 hours a day and get all A's if I wanted so I'm not trying to get anyone to feel bad for me. But maybe the truth is to get the kind of body I want with my genetics I need a little gear and clen, t3 ect. Remember man my goal is to be hot for my gf not be Ronnie Coleman I'm not so sure I need to do steroids all year every year for that.
 
McCrew530

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Well I won't lie I 100 percent believe what your saying is true for a lot of people. Maybe I'm that way and maybe I'm not. I guess it's a bit of a toss up because you know I'd like to have abs and be more muscular and stronger then what I am naturally. Dude when I was a teen I worked out for about 3 hours a day and all I did was sleep and study otherwise. You know for a lot of years I tried to lie to myself and tell myself that I just wasn't doing x or y right.the truth was and is I don't have the best genetics for having a nice pair of abs and huge muscles. On the counterpoint I could probably study like 2 hours a day and get all A's if I wanted so I'm not trying to get anyone to feel bad for me. But maybe the truth is to get the kind of body I want with my genetics I need a little gear and clen, t3 ect. Remember man my goal is to be hot for my gf not be Ronnie Coleman I'm not so sure I need to do steroids all year every year for that.
Brother believe me when I say that your money is going to be better spent on a coach who will teach you how to eat for abs and lift for gain. Gear is for those who are trying to put the finishing touches on their physique or to pack on a lot of weight after they have maxed out their natural potential. I don't think that this is the right path for you at this time.
 
Dma378

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Once you start steroids. You will never stop. Trust me. My first time I grabbed something mild and said, ya know, I bet a run of this would get my body to a point i can be proud of myself. But every time it ended and you slowly loose some of that muscle and strength you say "one more cycle". And the cycle repeats till eventually you come to terms with the fact you will be pinning testosterone twice a week till the day you die.
Truth right here!!! "Hi my name is ......., and I'm an addict" LOL
 
McCrew530

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Truth right here!!! "Hi my name is ......., and I'm an addict" LOL
Admitting that is the first step to recovery :laugh:
 
tinytony

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Damn bro that is madness! How did the comp go?
It was OK. My first one. I didn't do really well. In prejudging I thought I was good! But after that it kind of fell apart. Physique posing kind of sucks and I don't think I was loose enough. I feel like I messed up in that area plus they out so much glaze on my for the Finals I couldn't even see any lines in pictures from the show Lol so I learned a few things!!
 
McCrew530

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It was OK. My first one. I didn't do really well. In prejudging I thought I was good! But after that it kind of fell apart. Physique posing kind of sucks and I don't think I was loose enough. I feel like I messed up in that area plus they out so much glaze on my for the Finals I couldn't even see any lines in pictures from the show Lol so I learned a few things!!
Physique posing does suck you have to be relaxed but tight and not flex but have your muscles be flexed I just wanted to throw down a most muscular and call it good lol
 
tinytony

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Physique posing does suck you have to be relaxed but tight and not flex but have your muscles be flexed I just wanted to throw down a most muscular and call it good lol
Hell yes and stomp off stage. Yeah it was a good learning experience. My posing coach wasn't helping me use my personality in it and it felt terribly unnatural. It wasn't even me. Like what he made me to didn't showcase anything. But at that point I assumed he knew more than me
 
McCrew530

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Word thats the key, finding the combo of right the correct posing style that matches your personality.
 

jamesjudo5

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I've been thinking a lot and I think your right about the pro-hormones maybe they are just not for me.I seriously don't want to **** up my liver. I decided just to do a true cycle and stop ****ing around. I ordered some Test E and Masteron yesterday as well as some clomid as a serm. Since I have gyno already I'm not too worried about estrogenic sides as I'm going to have surgery in the future to fix this( this was just gyno from puberty not from a cycle). My diet is going well weighted today and down about 16 pounds from where I started 2 months ago. I got my blood's checked and testosterone is a 425ng/dl. The reference range is 300-1000 on our instrument. Just got a genetic bad hand and i'm 23 for pete's sake. All my other labs are normal by the way. The real ironic thing is give a few years and I could probably be on trt if I'm that low at 23.
 
tinytony

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I've been thinking a lot and I think your right about the pro-hormones maybe they are just not for me.I seriously don't want to **** up my liver. I decided just to do a true cycle and stop ****ing around. I ordered some Test E and Masteron yesterday as well as some clomid as a serm. Since I have gyno already I'm not too worried about estrogenic sides as I'm going to have surgery in the future to fix this( this was just gyno from puberty not from a cycle). My diet is going well weighted today and down about 16 pounds from where I started 2 months ago. I got my blood's checked and testosterone is a 425ng/dl. The reference range is 300-1000 on our instrument. Just got a genetic bad hand and i'm 23 for pete's sake. All my other labs are normal by the way. The real ironic thing is give a few years and I could probably be on trt if I'm that low at 23.
You'll feel really good on test and mast
 
reps4jesus

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Well I won't lie I 100 percent believe what your saying is true for a lot of people. Maybe I'm that way and maybe I'm not. I guess it's a bit of a toss up because you know I'd like to have abs and be more muscular and stronger then what I am naturally. Dude when I was a teen I worked out for about 3 hours a day and all I did was sleep and study otherwise. You know for a lot of years I tried to lie to myself and tell myself that I just wasn't doing x or y right.the truth was and is I don't have the best genetics for having a nice pair of abs and huge muscles. On the counterpoint I could probably study like 2 hours a day and get all A's if I wanted so I'm not trying to get anyone to feel bad for me. But maybe the truth is to get the kind of body I want with my genetics I need a little gear and clen, t3 ect. Remember man my goal is to be hot for my gf not be Ronnie Coleman I'm not so sure I need to do steroids all year every year for that.
When you stop your cycle...loose some muscle...and your gf isnt calling you hot 24/7 anymore...then what?
Ill tell you what, you get your ass back on cycle.
One cycle of gear is dumb. If your not all in then try xgels.
 

jamesjudo5

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You'll feel really good on test and mast
Thanks man I'm planing on doing photos before the first pin and every 2 weeks after. It's going to be quite a journey I'm dieting harder then I ever have and I really think I'll have a complete different look by Christmas at this rate. I'm nervous but I'm going to play it safe and start with light doses like 300-500 milligram test a week and 100-200 milligrams mast. I recently seen a study regarding even 300 milligrams of test E and on average it boasted people to over 1300 ng/dl. That would be over a threefold rise in test even without masteron. My goal by Christmas is to be 205 with no more then 12 percent bodyfat, and by February is 200 with sub-ten.
 

jamesjudo5

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When you stop your cycle...loose some muscle...and your gf isnt calling you hot 24/7 anymore...then what?
Ill tell you what, you get your ass back on cycle.
One cycle of gear is dumb. If your not all in then try xgels.
You might be right, who knows. But at 23 do you really think I should have to live with the test levels I have? Of course if I went to enough endos one might put me on trt despite my age but then there you go I would be on test anyway and by the time I'd find that endo I'd spend 10 times the money and have less control of what I put in my body.
 
McCrew530

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You might be right, who knows. But at 23 do you really think I should have to live with the test levels I have? Of course if I went to enough endos one might put me on trt despite my age but then there you go I would be on test anyway and by the time I'd find that endo I'd spend 10 times the money and have less control of what I put in my body.
That is one heck of a point...
 
tinytony

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You might be right, who knows. But at 23 do you really think I should have to live with the test levels I have? Of course if I went to enough endos one might put me on trt despite my age but then there you go I would be on test anyway and by the time I'd find that endo I'd spend 10 times the money and have less control of what I put in my body.
That is one heck of a point...
Yup. I know what I'd be doing. Unless of course you want kids. Uoi could always run Nolva at a really low dose for quite awhile and possibly boost natty test quite a ways
 

jamesjudo5

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Now just waiting for product to arrive,lol. And no me and the girlfriend plan to have kids a bit later in life after she is done med school. So no kids for awhile.
 
reps4jesus

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You might be right, who knows. But at 23 do you really think I should have to live with the test levels I have? Of course if I went to enough endos one might put me on trt despite my age but then there you go I would be on test anyway and by the time I'd find that endo I'd spend 10 times the money and have less control of what I put in my body.
There ya go. Good luck man
 

jamesjudo5

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Have you met this girl before?
Yeah I have buddy we actually been in a relationship for years and she is away right now because she is doing something with her life and attending med school. Not to knock you but you need to ask questions before you jump to conclusions about people you don't know.
 
jbryand101b

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Yeah I have buddy we actually been in a relationship for years and she is away right now because she is doing something with her life and attending med school. Not to knock you but you need to ask questions before you jump to conclusions about people you don't know.
So you became fat an lazy after she moved, or already were when you were in a actual relationship?

By the way, anabolic steroids increase anabolism in the body.

Anabolism includes muscle gain and fat gain.

If you can't get lean without anabolics, you're just going to get fatter
 

jamesjudo5

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Losing about 1-2 pounds a week. Starting to see the split between front and rear debts and bit of leg definition coming back. Checking ketosticks regularly and in deep ketosis. Calories about 1200-1600 per day. Eating mix of organic eggs and sausage patties and whey isolate with fish oils. Refeeding once a week after my workout. Just started tossing in sesamin as well as alcar and forskolin. My goal is to be the leanest I've ever been by February. Going to try to go non-stim for around the next 8 weeks then if I'm not starting to see abs toss in ECA and clen if needed. My motivation is sky high and feeling great in ketosis except of course those crazy food dreams. Feeling a bit hungry but generally drinking water masks it pretty good.
 

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