M4OHN and gyno?

[ketchup head]

I just started taking M4OHN 8 mgs ED for a week and have noticedhard tissue under my nipples with a clear to light brown dis-charge? I haven't seen anyone else with this problem and M4OHN! Is there anything I can take to counter it and still take the M4OHN? Any feedback would be great

Thanks

 

[milwood]

wow! Is that all you're on? Very surprising. I'd stop immediately and start nolva or ReboundXT ASAP!

 

[BryanM]

200-300mg vit b6 ed as well to try and reduce prolactin as well as nolva

 

[jwp888]

I just started taking M4OHN 8 mgs ED for a week and have noticedhard tissue under my nipples with a clear to light brown dis-charge? I haven't seen anyone else with this problem and M4OHN! Is there anything I can take to counter it and still take the M4OHN? Any feedback would be great

Thanks

???what?? 1 week on M4OHN@ at teeny tiny 8mg and already "hard tissue" and "brown discharge?" Hmmmm something does not add up imo.
Have you been taking anything else lately???

If that is all you are taking and you are getting those effects, then I would stop.

 

[Syr]

???what?? 1 week on M4OHN@ at teeny tiny 8mg and already "hard tissue" and "brown discharge?" Hmmmm something does not add up imo.
Have you been taking anything else lately???

If that is all you are taking and you are getting those effects, then I would stop.

Yes, he must be out of some wet cycle and experiencing delayed gyno.
I would stop all and start nolva 90/60/60...

 

[pu12en12g]

Gyno after 1 week of m4ohn ? :think:

 

[Truck]

Gyno after 1 week of m4ohn ? :think:

agreed. there is more to this scenario than meets the eye. MOHN can induce prolactin gyno, but not without plenty of estrogen to aggravate.

 

[ketchup head]

I had just finished a long pct of 6-oxo (1 1/2 months) after 1 month of m-dien. Is this causing it?

 

[DR.D]

Take a dopaminergic at low doses until the discharge stops then finish a few more weeks with nolva to be safe. You could stop the M4OHN, but I might even keep taking it if you could get the estro in check fast, it might actually help.

 

[ketchup head]

Thanks for the info, so Doc what do you think is causing it? and what exactly is a dopaminergic? You think to keep taking it is a good idea? why? Thanks! sorry for all the questions, I like M4OHN and I hope I can continue to take it.

 

[BryanM]

something like bromocriptine or cabergoline

 

[DR.D]

Thanks for the info, so Doc what do you think is causing it? and what exactly is a dopaminergic? You think to keep taking it is a good idea? why? Thanks! sorry for all the questions, I like M4OHN and I hope I can continue to take it.

Yes, BryanM suggested the two most popular dopaminergics in his post above. Also Permax is a good one. Basically anything used for Parkinson would help (mementine, amanatidine, amphetamine, apomorphine) even Vitex, aka:chasted berry is said to work. Progesterone can initiate prolactin secretion and if estrogen is high enough, that can prompt gyno/lactation. I've even seen drugs like Haldol @1mg catalyze lactation, so the M4OHN is not really the prob, maybe just the low dose of it is an issue, because at higher doses, I suspect it would discourage lactation directly.

 

[ketchup head]

Would 6-OXO help to inhibit estrogen, along with a higher dose of M4OHN?

 

[DR.D]

Would 6-OXO help to inhibit estrogen, along with a higher dose of M4OHN?

I would say try that if you at least added some Vitex to the mix, otherwise, I'd say cut everything but the 6-oxo, get some nolva, then resume with the m4ohn in about a wk. You really should address the prolactin at this point fella. Or if your nipples aren't enlarging or in pain, and you don't mind a little discharge, then go for it. I just think that would be flirting with gyno hoping that it would recover spontaneously (which it might if you increased the dose, or might not)

 

[JonesersRX7]

something like bromocriptine or cabergoline

Posting so I can find if this ever happens... and also are these OTC meds or do you need a script?

 

[AcuDoc]

Check out this thread
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20911

 

[size]

I would not use bromo. It can have nasty side effects and it is not needed. Nolvadex will do the job.

 

[jmh80]

deja vu - huh size?

 

[AcuDoc]

Not trying to pimp for DS but you might want to try their Rebound XT. Some people are reporting this stuff to work much faster than Nolva for gyno symptoms. But like Size said, treat the estrogen not the progesterone.

 

[DR.D]

Even though I "officially advise" DS now, nobody has ever accused me of pimpin', in fact I endorse The Truth only (thus the Cross stays in my avatar). So I'm not surprised by AcuDoc's post, I'll do the pimpin' for him because I know the facts. Rebound has a Ki of 0.18 microM. To help put it in perspective how strong that is, the Ki value for 6-Oxo is 0.43 mic's. In other words, Rebound is about 2.4x stronger than the most popular steroidal AI out there right now, 6-Oxo. So I am not surprised if it could have profound benefits on gyno. You could probably perform chemical sex changes with this stuff! But Nolva is the tried and true gyno cure. I agree, treat the estrogen first before the progesterone, it's the root problem. That's why I suggested maybe sticking with the androgen too. Non-aromatizing stuff like M4OHN is actually a good adjuct to anti-e treatment for gyno.

 

[size]

Dr.D.....the avatar looks good.

 

[AcuDoc]

Even though I "officially advise" DS now, nobody has ever accused me of pimpin', in fact I endorse The Truth only (thus the Cross stays in my avatar). So I'm not surprised by AcuDoc's post, I'll do the pimpin' for him because I know the facts. Rebound has a Ki of 0.18 microM. To help put it in perspective how strong that is, the Ki value for 6-Oxo is 0.43 mic's. In other words, Rebound is about 2.4x stronger than the most popular steroidal AI out there right now, 6-Oxo. So I am not surprised if it could have profound benefits on gyno. You could probably perform chemical sex changes with this stuff! But Nolva is the tried and true gyno cure. I agree, treat the estrogen first before the progesterone, it's the root problem. That's why I suggested maybe sticking with the androgen too. Non-aromatizing stuff like M4OHN is actually a good adjuct to anti-e treatment for gyno.

Is Rebound's ki value the reason it seems to give more profound and faster results than nolva?

 

[AcuDoc]

One other comment-I think the culprit is the M-Dien. When I took it I got gyno symptoms which came on fast and took forever to resolve even with stopping the cycle. It took 2 months of nolva to make them completely go away. Those were a long two months so if Rebound works as fast as people are saying, I'd go with that as well.

 

[DR.D]

Dr.D.....the avatar looks good.

Thanks Size! I finally figured out how to work my Adobe Photo Shop. I think Sldg was upset with me because I didn't switch Av's sooner, but I had to keep The Cross in it somehow!

OK.. Just kiddin' really, he said I could use his new av or not, it was up to me. He's cool like that, really a sincere fella and an honest Christian brother, or else I wouldn't be his chemist.

 

[DR.D]

Is Rebound's ki value the reason it seems to give more profound and faster results than nolva?

Do you mean as far as PCT and test recovery? It's a very strong AI, no doubt. Also, steroidal AI's have a special effect in this area that non-steroidals and SERM's don't have. It's mostly related to it's interaction with SHBG, and the official write up should answer that question. But, if you mean as far as gyno treatment goes, I had not heard that it was being used as a sub superior to Nolva. Is that what you meant? It is know that the potency is a direct predictor of a steroidal AI's effectiveness in treating metastatic breast carsinoma, so that would not surprise me, but it's the first I've heard that people were specifically applying Rebound in that way, if that's what you meant.

 

[AcuDoc]

Do you mean as far as PCT and test recovery? It's a very strong AI, no doubt. Also, steroidal AI's have a special effect in this area that non-steroidals and SERM's don't have. It's mostly related to it's interaction with SHBG, and the official write up should answer that question. But, if you mean as far as gyno treatment goes, I had not heard that it was being used as a sub superior to Nolva. Is that what you meant? It is know that the potency is a direct predictor of a steroidal AI's effectiveness in treating metastatic breast carsinoma, so that would not surprise me, but it's the first I've heard that people were specifically applying Rebound in that way, if that's what you meant.

I've read on a few boards of it resolving longstanding gyno within a few days to a few weeks where long term nolva use had been of little help. If this is repeated by more people then it would seem to be superior to nolva in many cases.

 

[Neuromancer]

I've read on a few boards of it resolving longstanding gyno within a few days to a few weeks where long term nolva use had been of little help. If this is repeated by more people then it would seem to be superior to nolva in many cases.

Nolva, topical DHT...did nothing for my gyno. Rebound XT is killing it.

 

[bigman420]

so does m4ohn normally cause gyno or not?

 

[AcuDoc]

I've never heard of it causing probs. The m-dien has, esp. for me, so that is why I think it might be from the m-dien. I have zero science to back that up so take it for what it's worth.

 

[DR.D]

Wow, that's good to know guys. Thanks for the feedback. I don't get around too many boards or even enough threads on this board to have heard that, but it's intresting info. Nolva occupies estrogen receptors and modifies gene expression to improve gyno, but a competative, steroidal AI actually starves the breast tissue of the estrogen it needs to support growth.

Neuromancer, was your gyno longstanding too, or acute from a recent cycle?

The only problem with M4OHN, is that it is a mild 5-a-reductase inhibitor, and DHT is oppositional to estrogen. So if it cut your DHT levels just enough to allow estrogen to get the upper hand, gyno could result. Hyperprolactinaemia, can result from estrogens direct effect on the pituitary especially if the gland is already acting sluggish. The hypothalamus need not even be involved, and in that case the dopaminergic would have no benefit at all. However, on paper at least, M4OHN is as androgenic as roughly an equal amount of DHT, so that shouldn't really matter, unless the dose was just too low at 8mg to compensate. The 4-OH sub is now thought not to interfere with AR binding as much as it once was, but is still thought to provide steric inhibition to progesterone binding proteins. So I doubt it's an intrinsic progestin, but I need to update my knowledge in this area and get back to you with a definite answer. From personal experience, progestins have never seemed to initiate or agonize gyno with me. Test has always been the worst, but tiny doses of letro completely prevent it.

I'd say try Nolva, or based on the new info from AcuDoc & Neuromancer, you could go with Rebound. Either one would be a valid place to start. Reinforced anecdotal accounts hold more weight with me that book protocols. Life is just like that, so I'll follow this closely.

 

[ketchup head]

Thanks for all the replys! I have been taking liquid nolva for 1 week, I belive I under dosed it, I didn't now that the liquid didn't equal the same amount as the tabs. Last two days I have been taking 5mls. before that 3mls. The gyno has defintely gone down (thank god, or science) I am looking forward to starting a new cycle. i was thinking Superdrol. What do you guys think?

 

[Neuromancer]

Wow, that's good to know guys. Thanks for the feedback. I don't get around too many boards or even enough threads on this board to have heard that, but it's intresting info. Nolva occupies estrogen receptors and modifies gene expression to improve gyno, but a competative, steroidal AI actually starves the breast tissue of the estrogen it needs to support growth.

Neuromancer, was your gyno longstanding too, or acute from a recent cycle?


I'd say try Nolva, or based on the new info from AcuDoc & Neuromancer, you could go with Rebound. Either one would be a valid place to start. Reinforced anecdotal accounts hold more weight with me that book protocols. Life is just like that, so I'll follow this closely.

Well it was a little bit of both. I have pubertal gyno...but on my last cycle, my left side really got out of hand...and quick too! The right side, which was completely pre-existing...is all but gone!! What is left, which is really small, is much softer then it was before. My left side however, isn't going down nearly as fast..but I believe I see a steady shrinking.

If I am not mistaken there are about 7 or 8 reports of this stuff killing their gyno...very promising.

 

[DR.D]

...The gyno has defintely gone down (thank god, or science) I am looking forward to starting a new cycle. i was thinking Superdrol. What do you guys think?

Science is just a way to try and quantitate the mind God. Definately, thank God, he picks up the slack for our mistakes if you ask him to and trust that he will.

You really can't go wrong with Superdrol, it's the cleanest one out there and highly effective too. Also, it's parent structure Masteron has long been used as an anti-gyno androgen, so I doubt it will cause you any probs at all. But, you can still preform the old "in out, in out" while on it!

 

[ketchup head]

Thanks doc "viddy well little brother, viddy well"