1 week into epi

[mikeym]

Hey guys, first of all sorry if this topic has been beaten to death here. Anyway, this is my first ph cycle and I am one week into it at 30mg ed. The last day ortwo I have started noticing a nice little strength boost in the gym but I think I'm noticing my first side too. Ive had naturally puffy nips as long as I can remember but it has definitely started to slowly increase the last few days. I have no other side effects (no itchiness, no lactating, no tissue). So, Is this change in nip appearance something I can expect with any cycle or is it likely a warning sign of the g word? I have nolv/clomid on hand so if symptoms progress would you recommend starting a small dose of one/both serms for rest of cycle (4-6weeks not sure yet). Thanks for any advice guys.

 

[lilbigman1]

Until they get sensative I wouldn't be worried, hormonal imbalances can do that. It's good you have stuff on hand incase tho

 

[mikeym]

Ya figured I'd just keep an eye on it for the time being and try not to worry too much thanks man

 

[Hazard5150]

following....

 

[smshannon001]

Which brand are you using?

I get changes all the time on hormones. When it's itchy or sensitive then I hit it with an AI but without bloodwork it's still a guessing game.

Keep us posted.

 

[mikeym]

Which brand are you using?

I get changes all the time on hormones. When it's itchy or sensitive then I hit it with an AI but without bloodwork it's still a guessing game.

Keep us posted.

Unfortunately haven't had bloods done (stupid I know). Anyway the epi is Rogue by Muscle Sport Science. Just learned that a google search of them brings up pretty much nothing lol interesting. By AI I'm guessing your referring to something like letro/arimidex , and not something otc? Don't have any real AIs on hand since I'm only running epi shouldn't be a problem getting one tho if necessary. Was considering grabbing an otc AI (arimistane) to start third week of pct. Again, I don't really have any sensitivity/itchiness right now so just gunna proceed with the epi and try to enjoy the cycle. Will definitely keep reporting in as things continue..

 

[superbeast668]

Grab some formabolic. It's a suicidal AI that you can get OTC. Olympus labs makes a forma product as well. If you want to research it the original injectable version was lentaron by brand or formestane by chemical. Arimistane is worthless as an AI. Don't bother.


You don't use clomid for gyno. It's really not very good for that purpose. Nolva is. If there's no lumps and your nips don't burn I wouldn't sweat it but get that AI in case that does start happening.


Always cover your bases pre cycle. Have letro, nolva/ralox and something for prolactin like caber on hand just in case. Boy Scouts motto.. It's like going to a whore house with out a rubber, just asking for issues.

 

[Hazard5150]

Grab some formabolic. It's a suicidal AI that you can get OTC. Olympus labs makes a forma product as well. If you want to research it the original injectable version was lentaron by brand or formestane by chemical. Arimistane is worthless as an AI. Don't bother.


You don't use clomid for gyno. It's really not very good for that purpose. Nolva is. If there's no lumps and your nips don't burn I wouldn't sweat it but get that AI in case that does start happening.


Always cover your bases pre cycle. Have letro, nolva/ralox and something for prolactin like caber on hand just in case. Boy Scouts motto.. It's like going to a whore house with out a rubber, just asking for issues.

I have Formabolic and a extra thing of nolva. Should I get some letro?

 

[Hazard5150]

Which brand are you using?

I get changes all the time on hormones. When it's itchy or sensitive then I hit it with an AI but without bloodwork it's still a guessing game.

Keep us posted.

When you say AI are you meaning something like formabolic or something like letro?

 

[smshannon001]

Both are AIs.

I don't think you need letro right now. It has more side effects and is usually a last resort. However, some guys use it as their on cycle AI at a very low dose to keep blood levels stable and just increase the dose if any problems occur. (Instead of switching from one AI to another and waiting for peak blood concentration)

The formestane should help and can increase your gains. Ima big fan of formestane.

 

[TacTownbeast]

Aromasin (exemestane) is a good on cycle AI.

 

[Goliath1]

I highly doubt your getting gyno issues 1 week into Epi, but anything is possible when playing with hormonals..

http://www.orbitnutrition.com/cart/ironflex-supplements-formabolic.html

This is a great on cycle AI if it is needed..
It's 15% off now also..

Try applying 1-2 pumps EOD and adjust accordingly.

 

[mikeym]

I highly doubt your getting gyno issues 1 week into Epi, but anything is possible when playing with hormonals..


This is a great on cycle AI if it is needed..
It's 15% off now also..

Try applying 1-2 pumps EOD and adjust accordingly.

Ya chances are I'm probably fine and it is just mental. Like I posted earlier I've had chronic puffy nips so I was definitely concerned about that going in. I do have some formabolic on the way tho just in case. Once it arrives should I just use it to combat symptoms as they arise or continuously through the cycle. I know you said EOD, but would there be any negatives to using it for 4-5 weeks? i.e. Increased chance of estrogen rebound? Thnx for the help.

 

[smshannon001]

Ya chances are I'm probably fine and it is just mental. Like I posted earlier I've had chronic puffy nips so I was definitely concerned about that going in. I do have some formabolic on the way tho just in case. Once it arrives should I just use it to combat symptoms as they arise or continuously through the cycle. I know you said EOD, but would there be any negatives to using it for 4-5 weeks? i.e. Increased chance of estrogen rebound? Thnx for the help.

No rebound as it's suicidal, but I got estro rebound from epi before, threw some tamoxifen at it and formeron, gtg!

 

[mgkoret]

Yeah man, same boat. Also have a little puff in my nips naturally from when I Los a ton of weight. I'm finishing up my 2nd week of EPI and I noticed it a bit too. But I noticed mine more from my muscle tissue changing and defining more. As my chest got stronger the skin gets pulled different ways from what areas you are hitting harder. The way mine ended up made my nips look like they were forming weird. Could be all in your head! Mine was

 

[mikeym]

Hey guys just checkin in. On day 9 now of 30mg. Have put on a couple lbs since starting which I'm definitely happy about. Had a great back workout last night. Felt strong, crazy pump (like Arnold cumming kind of pump not like ahh fuk this back pump haha). Nips havent really change since a couple days ago when I first noticed the puff. So feeling good right now will still be using the formabolic in a few days once it's delivered. If I respond well to that and symptoms don't suddenly start to worsen over the next week or so I'll be upping the dose to 45mg (start of week 3 or 4) and running for the full six weeks.

 

[Hazard5150]

Hey guys just checkin in. On day 9 now of 30mg. Have put on a couple lbs since starting which I'm definitely happy about. Had a great back workout last night. Felt strong, crazy pump (like Arnold cumming kind of pump not like ahh fuk this back pump haha). Nips havent really change since a couple days ago when I first noticed the puff. So feeling good right now will still be using the formabolic in a few days once it's delivered. If I respond well to that and symptoms don't suddenly start to worsen over the next week or so I'll be upping the dose to 45mg (start of week 3 or 4) and running for the full six weeks.

im on day 10, at 45mg. Right there with you. put on like 2lbs so far. hard to say if its solid mass or fat or both. def not water weight tho

 

[mgkoret]

im on day 10, at 45mg. Right there with you. put on like 2lbs so far. hard to say if its solid mass or fat or both. def not water weight tho

Day 12 for me. Up 4lbs. 40mg a day, super clean diet.
Good to be on the same track as you guys. Keep it up. Back and shoulder day tonight

 

[mikeym]

Nice. Trying to get around 3500-4000 calories fairly clean so trying to put on some good weight even tho epi is generally better for cutting. Any sides for u guys?

 

[mgkoret]

Nice. Trying to get around 3500-4000 calories fairly clean so trying to put on some good weight even tho epi is generally better for cutting. Any sides for u guys?

I'm not really counting. I just eat every 2 hours or so. Lots of chicken turkey and veggies and rice. I I intake 1000cal or so from shakes at least.
I'm bulking too while toning.
No sides really. Lethargy every now and again. Hungry all the time haha. So that's about it on my side. Getting results though. My log is under "first cycle - checking the bases" have photos posted.

 

[Hazard5150]

I've read quite a few logs where people have put on 10-15 lbs. I think it's one of the better bulking mild ph's. As far as sides some tiredness. I've been monitoring my bp. Been solid. Pretty hungry. My strength has been going up. I start off kinda slow but after a while I just keep going and adding more and more weight on everything. It's crazy. Hopefully I can put on about 15lbs and keep 10 after pct. Gonna start creatine and Formeron here soon .

 

[mgkoret]

Man, tonight, back pumps bad haha. 2g taurine, and some potassium/sodium and much better.

Yeah I plan on hitting 180-185. I know a guy who used a proper pct and A-HD and kept ALL his gains.

 

[Hazard5150]

Nice. I haven't had any back pumps yet but my potassium intake is pretty high. I'm going to buy some taurine tomorrow. What was your starting weight?

 

[mikeym]

Nips seem a little puffier last night/this morning and testes are shrinking up a bit. Definitely feeling the benefits as well tho. Hoping that form gets in tomorrow.

 

[R1balla]

im on day 10, at 45mg. Right there with you. put on like 2lbs so far. hard to say if its solid mass or fat or both. def not water weight tho

By day 8, I was up 4 pounds at 30mg. But this is my first cycle in about 5 years.

And no back pumps for me, but normal gym pumps (especially on biceps) is crazy. Too much if you ask me.

But my brawn + dermacrine combo is working out pretty good so far. I'm on week 4

 

[mgkoret]

Nice. I haven't had any back pumps yet but my potassium intake is pretty high. I'm going to buy some taurine tomorrow. What was your starting weight?

Starting weight 167. Current weight 172

 

[Hazard5150]

Nips seem a little puffier last night/this morning and testes are shrinking up a bit. Definitely feeling the benefits as well tho. Hoping that form gets in tomorrow.

how puffy? like a noticable amount? My form should be here by end of week.

By day 8, I was up 4 pounds at 30mg. But this is my first cycle in about 5 years.

And no back pumps for me, but normal gym pumps (especially on biceps) is crazy. Too much if you ask me.

But my brawn + dermacrine combo is working out pretty good so far. I'm on week 4

I feel ya on the bicep pump. they are crazy insane. Im gonna grab some taurine tomorrow havent had any back pumps.

Starting weight 167. Current weight 172

nice. i was 156 and i was at 161 this morning. hard to tell if all solid mass or some fat. I regret not cutting back down to 10%bf, or at least 6 pack for a starting base. I think i was about 15% at 156.

 

[mgkoret]

nice. i was 156 and i was at 161 this morning. hard to tell if all solid mass or some fat. I regret not cutting back down to 10%bf, or at least 6 pack for a starting base. I think i was about 15% at 156.

Yeah I did a two month natty cut before I started my epi. I was at 9% or so when I started. No 6 pack but my uppers are forming well now. I'm really feeling it kick in at 40mg. This is day 13 for me.

 

[Hazard5150]

Yeah I did a two month natty cut before I started my epi. I was at 9% or so when I started. No 6 pack but my uppers are forming well now. I'm really feeling it kick in at 40mg. This is day 13 for me.

**** i wish i woulda cut down. last thing i want is to get up to 18% again or so. Kinda scared to keep eating a surplus

 

[mgkoret]

**** i wish i woulda cut down. last thing i want is to get up to 18% again or so. Kinda scared to keep eating a surplus

Chicken, ground turkey, brown rice, carnivor mass gainer and protein isolate. That's my basic everyday diet. Loads of veggies and greens. No fast food. You can keep the bf down by reducing intake. Just eat protein and complex carbs like a boss and bulk bulk bulk!

 

[mikeym]

Have had formabolic for 4 days now using 2 pumps (50mg) ed. Nips still a bit puffier than normal but feel fine. Where did my nuts go? lol. Worst side is actually acne tho. My skin had finally been clearing up for about a month not looking too good now.

Gunna stay at 30mg at least for one more week. Couple Q's:

1. will upping dose to 45mg certainly increase sides? (Smaller nuts, worse acne, etc)
2. Plan on continuing form through the cycle. Should I stop when I start pct? Should I continue through pct? Should I stop and then pick back up at week 3 of pct?

 

[smshannon001]

Maybe lower the for manolis by half in PCT if you feel that you have excess estrogen.
But I wouldn't continue it at a full dose because you don't want to supress estro for the entire pct


But yes if you go up to 45 the sides will get worse.

For the acne:
Get some witch hazel and chalky aspirin tablets
And a few dalacin C antibiotics if you can

Grind a few aspirin tabs into the witch hazel and spray it on the acne 2x a day

 

[TKC432]

The consensus regarding Epi is that the sweet spot is around 40mg. IMO anything less and you are not really getting the most benefit from it. I ran my last Epi cycle at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and gained 18lbs of lean mass and lost an inch off my waist. Was very happy with the results. The sides are fairly easy to deal with if you are prepared. Taurine for back pumps, drink plenty of water, joint supp to deal with dry joints, a formastane product on hand just in case ... and be sure to have your PCT all lined up and on point. I ran Nolva 20/20/10/10 with SUP3R PCT 4/4/3/3/2/1 and DAA ed and had a bottle of TransFORM on hand just in case but so far have not needed it. I am just starting week 5 of PCT so we shall see.....

But bottom line ..... I would up your Epi to 40-45mg now and manage the sides properly otherwise you are just not gonna get the most out of your cycle. My 2 cents

 

[mikeym]

Maybe lower the for manolis by half in PCT if you feel that you have excess estrogen.
But I wouldn't continue it at a full dose because you don't want to supress estro for the entire pct


But yes if you go up to 45 the sides will get worse.

For the acne:
Get some witch hazel and chalky aspirin tablets
And a few dalacin C antibiotics if you can

Grind a few aspirin tabs into the witch hazel and spray it on the acne 2x a day

Thanks man will try this.

The consensus regarding Epi is that the sweet spot is around 40mg. IMO anything less and you are not really getting the most benefit from it. I ran my last Epi cycle at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and gained 18lbs of lean mass and lost an inch off my waist. Was very happy with the results. The sides are fairly easy to deal with if you are prepared. Taurine for back pumps, drink plenty of water, joint supp to deal with dry joints, a formastane product on hand just in case ... and be sure to have your PCT all lined up and on point. I ran Nolva 20/20/10/10 with SUP3R PCT 4/4/3/3/2/1 and DAA ed and had a bottle of TransFORM on hand just in case but so far have not needed it. I am just starting week 5 of PCT so we shall see.....

But bottom line ..... I would up your Epi to 40-45mg now and manage the sides properly otherwise you are just not gonna get the most out of your cycle. My 2 cents

I have joint support and taurine so havent had any issues with joints/back pumps. Going to continue 3rd week at 30mg I believe than 45 for last 3 weeks if sides (primarily puff nips and acne) aren't bothering too much.

 

[R1balla]

The consensus regarding Epi is that the sweet spot is around 40mg. IMO anything less and you are not really getting the most benefit from it. I ran my last Epi cycle at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and gained 18lbs of lean mass and lost an inch off my waist. Was very happy with the results. The sides are fairly easy to deal with if you are prepared. Taurine for back pumps, drink plenty of water, joint supp to deal with dry joints, a formastane product on hand just in case ... and be sure to have your PCT all lined up and on point. I ran Nolva 20/20/10/10 with SUP3R PCT 4/4/3/3/2/1 and DAA ed and had a bottle of TransFORM on hand just in case but so far have not needed it. I am just starting week 5 of PCT so we shall see.....

But bottom line ..... I would up your Epi to 40-45mg now and manage the sides properly otherwise you are just not gonna get the most out of your cycle. My 2 cents

agreed

 

[TKC432]

Thanks man will try this.



I have joint support and taurine so havent had any issues with joints/back pumps. Going to continue 3rd week at 30mg I believe than 45 for last 3 weeks if sides (primarily puff nips and acne) aren't bothering too much.

Puffy nips are not necessarily gyno .... like its already been mentioned on this thread .... hormone imbalance can cause this ... usually nothing to worry about. Its when the nips get sore and you start to feel hard nodules under the nipple area .... then it may be the early early early onset of gyno. A simple solution to this when on any cycle is to have a good AI on hand to combat this. Usually people do not experience gyno symptoms while on Epi .... happens more with PH's that aromatize . However, everybody's different and some of us are more prone to gyno so anythings possible. Again....the reason why you should have an AI on hand to deal with it. IMO we go on cycle and want to get the most out of it .... especially considering the cost and the effects on the body .... if you're gonna do it may as well get all you can out of it .... this is why I suggest going up to the 40-45mg dosage of Epi sooner. Acne is a side effect IMO that is what it is .... not a huge deal. Gyno on the other hand is a more serious side effect and needs to be kept in check. I recommend a topical (transdermal) formestane product that you can start using now and carry through your PCT. There are several good ones on the market ..... TransFORM by Olympus Labs .... Formabolic by IronFlex to name two. I have a bottle of TransFORM on hand myself and will use it toward the end of my PCT when I come off the Nolva just as a precautionary measure to control E rebound. IMO the added cost of the transdermal formestane product is well worth it to allow yourself to safely get to the proper dosage of Epi and see the full range of results possible.

 

[mikeym]

2-3 days ago I think I started noticing a bit of a burning sensation in my left nip. Not rlly sure seems like as soon as I would notice it, it would be gone. Not overly concerned about it but upped form to 2 doses a day and they are feeling better.

Also yesterday (day 17) upped epi to 45mg. Planning staying here for rest of cycle. Gains are coming in nice and after my initial awful acne breakout my face is getting back to normal, i think that witch hazel and aspirin is working nicely.

1 more question about pct. I have nolv and clomid was planning on using both. Standard 20/20/10/10 on the nolv and starting clomid at 50mg. Should I taper that down as well? Something like 50/50/25/25

 

[smshannon001]

Glad the special sauce is working for the acne.

Your pct looks good and adding the clomid will only help to restart your hpta faster. Sounds good to me.

 

[TKC432]

2-3 days ago I think I started noticing a bit of a burning sensation in my left nip. Not rlly sure seems like as soon as I would notice it, it would be gone. Not overly concerned about it but upped form to 2 doses a day and they are feeling better.

Also yesterday (day 17) upped epi to 45mg. Planning staying here for rest of cycle. Gains are coming in nice and after my initial awful acne breakout my face is getting back to normal, i think that witch hazel and aspirin is working nicely.

1 more question about pct. I have nolv and clomid was planning on using both. Standard 20/20/10/10 on the nolv and starting clomid at 50mg. Should I taper that down as well? Something like 50/50/25/25

Glad to hear you upped the dosage to 45mg. You will be glad you did that. As for your PCT protocol .... looks pretty good. I did Nolva 20/20/10/10 with an OTC PCT supp and DAA ed and did fine .... that being said I think I would add a moderate dose of Clomid to my next run. Took almost 3 weeks before my libido woke back up and my boys came alive again If you have not already considered it I would definitely recommend you include DAA in your PCT .... there are a few OTC PCT supps out there that actually have DAA in them rather than just Tribulus (which really does nothing to raise T levels) .... REVOLUTION PCT is one of those that include DAA ...

 

[mikeym]

Thanks guys. I was considering grabbing PES Erase and DAA, may just do the revolution since that has daa already.

 

[TKC432]

Thanks guys. I was considering grabbing PES Erase and DAA, may just do the revolution since that has daa already.

REVOLUTION PCT by FINAFLEX
Awesome deal on REVOLUTION PCT and PURE TEST stack at TGB Supplements going on as we speak .... here's the link. Incredible price This would be the perfect addition to your PCT to get the boys up and running at full speed again
https://www.tgbsupplements.com/p-7383-finaflex-redefine-nutrition-pct-revolutionpure-test.aspx

 

[mikeym]

Well for the last few days I've thought I have been feeling increased sensations/sensitivity in the nips particularly the left one. Just got a pretty bad burning sensation in the left one halfway through my lift. Pretty confident there's no tissue but been avoiding poking around. Hypochondria kicking in tho. This will probably be the time I start literally losing sleep over this haha.

You guys think this is an indication to increase formabolic, start nolv, etc. Or quit being a poosey and press on?

 

[smshannon001]

Without bloodwork (only about $55) you can't be sure of your estro levels.

If the itchy feeling continues and any sensitivity to the touch arises then jump on the form

 

[R1balla]

Without bloodwork (only about $55) you can't be sure of your estro levels.

If the itchy feeling continues and any sensitivity to the touch arises then jump on the form

Agreed

 

[pimppapa1977]

Hell I've had puffy nips since puberty..as a precaution I run forma 2-3 wks through any cycle and taper down towards the end of pct. May wanna always have it..since u know

 

[TKC432]

Some people are more prone to gyno than others. No biggie if you are prepared. Hence the suggestion to always have a good AI product on hand. I will always have a formestane product on hand for any cycle I do ..... had TransFORM last cycle and ended up using it the last 3 weeks of PCT and I'm all good. Like anything in this game .... know your body and prepare accordingly.