First Sust and dbol cycle

[FarhanK23]

hello,

27 year old male, 5 feet 7 inches, 160lb, 13% bf, 5 years lifting

suggestion for this cycle:

week 1-6: dianabol 25mg ed
week 1-12: sustanon 250, 500 mg, 2x inj per week

week 13-15: 500iu e3d hcg

week 16 onwards: clomid 100/100/50/50 ed

 

[Hercules29]

Most veteran bodybuilders are telling me to use Test instead of Sus for a first cycle. Are you at your natural max?

 

[FarhanK23]

Most veteran bodybuilders are telling me to use Test instead of Sus for a first cycle. Are you at your natural max?

i know about test e and c as 1st. i should have clarified it a bit, what about hcg and pct protocol for this cycle of sust and dbol, any suggestions for it??

 

[NattyForLife]

hello, 27 year old male, 5 feet 7 inches, 160lb, 13% bf, 5 years lifting suggestion for this cycle: week 1-6: dianabol 25mg ed week 1-12: sustanon 250, 500 mg, 2x inj per week week 13-15: 500iu e3d hcg week 16 onwards: clomid 100/100/50/50 ed

Personally i think your a tad small! You havent reached your genetic potential yet! Eat, sleep and train.....hard for a couple more years than get on the juice if you dont like were your at!

 

[smshannon001]

Try and put on 20 more lbs first bro

But you are gonna do whatever you want anyway...

Test E/C @ 500mg (2x 250mg)/ week
Dbol 30-40mg (split doses)/day (4-6weeks)
Arimidex or Aromasin from week 1 start with a low dose and adjust as necessary

Good on the HCG - some ppl run it the whole cycle but I guess you gotta find out for yourself what dose works best, I'm using a similar protocol as yours

Your PCT looks OK but
Clomid 100/50/50/25
Add nolva if you can get it 20/20/10/10

Keep running liver/support supps from week 1 through pct

 

[FarhanK23]

Try and put on 20 more lbs first bro

But you are gonna do whatever you want anyway...

Test E/C @ 500mg (2x 250mg)/ week
Dbol 30-40mg (split doses)/day (4-6weeks)
Arimidex or Aromasin from week 1 start with a low dose and adjust as necessary

Good on the HCG - some ppl run it the whole cycle but I guess you gotta find out for yourself what dose works best, I'm using a similar protocol as yours

Your PCT looks OK but
Clomid 100/50/50/25
Add nolva if you can get it 20/20/10/10

Keep running liver/support supps from week 1 through pct

thanx
i read a lot about hcg using during the wholw cycle and how to run the doses but i also read that it lowers estrogen at the end. furthermore during pct it messes with your lh function. how does those go about?


pct with clomid and nolva stressing the liver too much. how does that go?

 

[FarhanK23]

Personally i think your a tad small! You havent reached your genetic potential yet! Eat, sleep and train.....hard for a couple more years than get on the juice if you dont like were your at!

how would i know if my genetic potential is reached? 20lb more with 13-15% bf? i thought aas with 15% is bad for the liver

 

[smshannon001]

how would i know if my genetic potential is reached? 20lb more with 13-15% bf? i thought aas with 15% is bad for the liver

If you stay under 15% you should be fine.
I' have heard that it causes liver problems but that your circulating estrogen will be higher because of the extra bodyfat.

It's almost impossible to know if ur potential is reached. And thb most ppl do AAS beforehand anyway!

But you should have a "solid base" first so you can hold onto your gains.

If your 160 and gain 30lb on roids are you prepared to eat to maintain 190 lbs when 10 weeks earlier you were eating to maintain 160lbs?

Try some new lifting programs first and bump up the calories by 200-500 and see if u start getting gains.

 

[smshannon001]

I'm running my HCG 500mcg EOD during the weeks test e is clearing BEFORE pct starts.

My nolva clomid etc will start the day after my last HCG pin

 

[FarhanK23]

If you stay under 15% you should be fine.
I' have heard that it causes liver problems but that your circulating estrogen will be higher because of the extra bodyfat.

It's almost impossible to know if ur potential is reached. And thb most ppl do AAS beforehand anyway!

But you should have a "solid base" first so you can hold onto your gains.

If your 160 and gain 30lb on roids are you prepared to eat to maintain 190 lbs when 10 weeks earlier you were eating to maintain 160lbs?

Try some new lifting programs first and bump up the calories by 200-500 and see if u start getting gains.

ahh i think maintenaing at 190 lbs is going to be tough but from watching ppl use it they seem to hold it with around 3610-4000ish cals.

but i think i should ask this more, what is considered as solid base?? i read from one of the stickies a guy with 5'6"-5'7" with a weight of 165-175lb is ideal weight height ratio for starting aas. can chance u can add to it??

 

[FarhanK23]

I'm running my HCG 500mcg EOD during the weeks test e is clearing BEFORE pct starts.

My nolva clomid etc will start the day after my last HCG pin

so why is the hcg being used after the last injection before pct?? i know the main mechanism (HPTA, LH) but why after last injection??

 

[smshannon001]

Partially cause I only had enough to run it that long (source only had 2 bottles left) and my source hasn't gotten any in since I started

HCG mimics LH

The nolva will bind to estro receptors so any increase in estro is basically ineffective

The clomid will help restore hpta

HCG can be suppressive and any suppressive compounds should stay away from pct

 

[FarhanK23]

Partially cause I only had enough to run it that long (source only had 2 bottles left) and my source hasn't gotten any in since I started

HCG mimics LH

The nolva will bind to estro receptors so any increase in estro is basically ineffective

The clomid will help restore hpta

HCG can be suppressive and any suppressive compounds should stay away from pct

great but why use it after last injection?

plus any recommendations for a solid base?

 

[smshannon001]

If you aren't going to use it the entire cycle then use it the last 2 weeks between test and pct.
Use it while the test is clearing. Not during pct where it can be suppressive.

A solid base.... I had a friend at 5'7" and 160 but shredded to the bone. He coulda put on more muscle IMO but he liked to run and surf.

He probably coulda gotten up to 180 (with a little fat gain too though) and still remain lean.