recommended regimen for permanent TRT

[meecho]

I have just begun TRT monitored by my PCP every 10 weeks. My testosterone results were around the 278 level out of the "normal range" of roughly 300-1200... this said, he started me with 200 mg of test once a week, which i have been on for the past five weeks and have seen absolutely NO improvements. I am currently 23, suffered from acute hypogonadism, still dont know what its originally attributed to, and desperate to raise my levels quickly and safely since i am an avid powerlifter/bodybuilder. it seems that i will be on TRT for the rest of my life, and my doctor has me just taking the 200 mg of test cyp a week with a capsule once a day called Performance Factor which is basically an estrogen blocker. i have added an extra 200 mg of that dose a week myself since i saw no results after five weeks just on the 200 mg that was prescribed and am barely into my second week of the updated dosage, and am anxious to see results. My MAIN question would be, should i be taking anything other than the anti estrogen capsule at all? especially since i will be trying out the 400 mg of test cyp a week. i inject 200 mg on monday and once again on thursday. any expert advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance!!

 

[blondmuscle]

Saw no results? Did you take some blood panels? Or did you just not feel better, like you assumed you would once you got the Cyp. If you're not going to listen to your doc and follow his advice, you might as well just throw caution out the window and bump it up to 600 mg per week, right?

 

[kisaj]

What did you test to determine you needed to go on TRT at your age? Hopefully you were checking:
CBC
DHEA-S
DHT
Estrogen
Pregnenolone
Total and Free Testosterone
SHBG
TSH
Free T3
T3
T4

That would give a baseline and then you would look into lifestyle/diet issues that could be in play. After running that down, you should have got an MRI.

After exhausting all issues and if it was then determined that you needed to be on TRT, I can all but promise that you would not need to be on 200mg of test a week and that your life would be changed. The reason I know you didn't do any of this is because only doctors that don't understand hormone therapy put their clients on 200mg right off the bat.

Also, he would not have you taking something called "Performance Factor" to circumvent e2 concerns. He would have prescribed a real AI or at the minimum recommended a transdermal formestane product.

 

[Turbo6GN]

You can have high test levels and feel like garbage, lower levels and feel fine. It's such an individual thing. I think people get hung up on a number from a single blood draw and obsess over it. My doc told me flat out he treats symptoms, not numbers. Having said all that, I hope you feel ok and it works out for you.

 

[kisaj]

I personally feel best with test levels in the 600-800 range on the 320-1200 scale. It's hard to explain to people, especially in the weightlifting world, that more is not always better.

 

[meecho]

Thank you for your recommended protocol, KISAJ. I forgot a few details in the explanation. When I noticed in December of last year the side effects, I saw my pcp, he could not determine the cause, so he sent me to a urologist, who could not determine the cause either, I then got a testicular MRI with all regular results and no abnormalities. I was then referred to a neurologist and had more blood tests to check my axis and the hormone secretion, which checked out normal. Finally went back to my pcp and Before I was prescribed 200 mg cyp, I was prescribed axiron (topical gel) which didn't raise my levels, I will post all my levels since I have the copy of lab work.. Maybe that can give you a better idea of what's going on with me. As you mentioned, I should have been prescribed something to circumvent E2 levels, is there something you would recommend that I take? And how often, since it's a continuos process and I'm not cycling "on" and "off". Thanks for your help and information

 

[meecho]

Thanks for your input and well wishes Turbo6GN

 

[kisaj]

There has to be an underlying reason that your test levels are not increasing. Could be adrenal. Perhaps a referral to an endo is in order- usually they are the first stop after the PCP.

As far as an AI, I stand by Formeron. I am a long time user and it is very good. It dries fast and smells great. One pump a day lowers my e2 levels approx 10pts. I normally ride very comfortable in the low-mid 20s, but this drops me into the teens and gives a very lean, dry look and also boosts libido. It is entirely possible that estrogen is holding you down.

 

[hewhoisripped]

You can have high test levels and feel like garbage, lower levels and feel fine. It's such an individual thing. I think people get hung up on a number from a single blood draw and obsess over it. My doc told me flat out he treats symptoms, not numbers. Having said all that, I hope you feel ok and it works out for you.

This. Plus 250ish levels isn't that low. Yes it is not optimal, but it isn't exactly trt or bust levels. It may be possible a combo of stress, draw time, etc. had you 100 under and you were actually 350, and now your 500 with the test so it's really no different, just a small bump in the physiological range.

AI wise, at 200mg you shouldn't need anything, at 400mg maybe a bit of formestane or tell your doc you notice puffy nips, maybe he'll prescribe exemstane, which I'd start at 12.5mg E3D or 25mg on injection day.

And just donate blood every few months.

 

[kisaj]

I have to disagree. 250ish levels are most definitely low and a certain candidate for TRT. You never want to be in the bottom of the range, even when it is still considered "normal". Also, most people need an AI at 200mg a week- that is a high TRT dose.

 

[hewhoisripped]

I have to disagree. 250ish levels are most definitely low and a certain candidate for TRT. You never want to be in the bottom of the range, even when it is still considered "normal". Also, most people need an AI at 200mg a week- that is a high TRT dose.

That's why I said not optimal. I'd say candidate but not necessary I've been in the 200 range for a month or so, wasn't fun but I could still get my dick up if needed and I didn't lose all of my strength suddenly. What I'm saying is OP could have looked for alternatives before hopping on TRT. And this comes from a TRT advocate. I wouldn't say most people need an AI at that dose, a good chunk maybe but not most. Elevated androgens should take care of the mild estrogen elevation. You need an AI if you're getting gyno, otherwise it's not needed.

 

[Wagz86]

Anyone ever been low T but not have too many of the symptoms other than trouble with weight loss and muscle growth? For instance I scored 400 on a scale of 300-1100 but I have no lack of libido at all. I don't feel too terribly lethargic. I'm 28. To be fair I was cutting weight at that time and I'm aware that that lowers your T levels.

 

[kisaj]

I am of the opinion that a single testosterone test is useless and really doesn't tell you much. Besides, you could have a great free test to test ratio and lower shbg, which would all contribute to good libido.

 

[Wagz86]

Makes sense. Will follow op's adventure and try to learn through him

 

[hewhoisripped]

I am of the opinion that a single testosterone test is useless and really doesn't tell you much. Besides, you could have a great free test to test ratio and lower shbg, which would all contribute to good libido.

Agreed

 

[thebigt]

I have just begun TRT monitored by my PCP every 10 weeks. My testosterone results were around the 278 level out of the "normal range" of roughly 300-1200... this said, he started me with 200 mg of test once a week, which i have been on for the past five weeks and have seen absolutely NO improvements. I am currently 23, suffered from acute hypogonadism, still dont know what its originally attributed to, and desperate to raise my levels quickly and safely since i am an avid powerlifter/bodybuilder. it seems that i will be on TRT for the rest of my life, and my doctor has me just taking the 200 mg of test cyp a week with a capsule once a day called Performance Factor which is basically an estrogen blocker. i have added an extra 200 mg of that dose a week myself since i saw no results after five weeks just on the 200 mg that was prescribed and am barely into my second week of the updated dosage, and am anxious to see results. My MAIN question would be, should i be taking anything other than the anti estrogen capsule at all? especially since i will be trying out the 400 mg of test cyp a week. i inject 200 mg on monday and once again on thursday. any expert advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance!!

400mg test cyp weekly???? some guys run cycles on that amount...