Double Epi&Winabol Cycle Log

[Aaron330]

My buddy and I are looking to make some huge gains on an Epi/Winabol cycle. Drewacious and I will both be posting our pre-cycle stats and logging our gains and progress here. This log should be really helpful for research purposes, to see how two different guys do on the same cycle. Both Drew and I are slightly gyno prone as we did an Epi cycle last year and got rebound gyno because Erase was weak as **** for an AI. We both successfully got rid of it using Raloxifene.

My question is how should we dose this stack? Here's what We're thinking. An 8 week cycle of
(dosages adjusted to the input given here)
Epi- 30/30/30/45/45/45
Furaza- 0/0/0/200/300/300/300/300
We have all our liver shield and cycle assist stuff in check. PCT will look like this
PCT:
Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Raloxifene:25/25/10/10
Ostarine: 10/10/20/20
Exemestane: 0/0/0/12.5ED/EOD/EOD/E3D

The Ostarine is just to help us keep as much of our gains as possible. We've both ran it before and it has 0 side effects but gave us good strength gains. It also helps a lot to repair joints and tendons, which we will need.

Please weigh in with any advice you have for us, and check back starting next week because we will be logging everything for research purposes. We'll even be doing the same strength programs to try and make it as controlled as possible.

 

[Aaron330]

Pre-Cycle Stats:
Weight: 195
Body Fat: 7.6%
Height: 6 1'

Arm: 16"
Thigh: 24"
Chest: 45.5"
Waist: 35"

Bench Press: 330
Back Squat: 360
Deadlift: 460
Overhead Press: 175

Oly Lifts:
Front Squat: 275
Clean&Jerk: 235
Snatch: 190

Before Pics:

 

[drewacious]

Pre-cycle stats:

Weight: 183
Body Fat: 11.3%
Height: 5'11

Arm: 15"
Thigh: 23"
Chest: 43"
Waist: 34"


Bench Press: 270
Back Squat: 340
Deadlift: 425
Overhead Press: 175

Before Pics:

 

[Olympus Labs]

Furuza is best ran @ 300mg for 8 weeks. Drop the winabol and grab 2 bottles of furaza 300 each as one bottle yields the amount needed for four weeks. Use OLYMPUS20 to save 20% off Furaza 300 at nutriverse a board sponsor. Your pct looks overkill

 

[Aaron330]

Furuza is best ran @ 300mg for 8 weeks. Drop the winabol and grab 2 bottles of furaza 300 each as one bottle yields the amount needed for four weeks. Use OLYMPUS20 to save 20% off Furaza 300 at nutriverse a board sponsor. Your pct looks overkill

Thanks, I may just do that. I guess we'll bump that dosage up to 300mg. What is overkill about the PCT? Should we run Nolva and Ostarine only?

 

[M.I.D]

Your osta is way way too high for pct. That dose will be too suppressive in pct. you wanna do 10mg!

Nolva 20/20/10/10 will suffice

 

[reps4jesus]

Your osta is way way too high for pct. That dose will be too suppressive in pct. you wanna do 10mg!

Nolva 20/20/10/10 will suffice

Yeah. 20 tops

 

[Aaron330]

Your osta is way way too high for pct. That dose will be too suppressive in pct. you wanna do 10mg!

Nolva 20/20/10/10 will suffice

Yeah. 20 tops

Ok great, I was wondering if we should drop it to 20. Will drop Osta as well. Thanks you guys!

 

[Justn55]

Does anyone have input on the timing of dosages from the original question?

 

[Aaron330]

Does anyone have input on the timing of dosages from the original question?

I've been told that Epi has a half life of 4-6 hours, so it's best to take your first dose an hour or two before your workout, and your last dose an hour or two after your workout.

But that's just what I've been told.

 

[Aaron330]

Week 1 Overview

We are on a really aggressive strength regimen, so recovery has been tough. We are doing the Russian Squat program, in the middle of a 10 week Deadlift program, and doing 5/3/1 for Bench and Overhead press. So we're lifting heavy 6 days a week. This week the only change I saw was the scale going from 195 to 200. No real strength gains to speak of yet, but I definitely feel and look bigger already. No side effects yet besides feeling some lethargy during the day, but no back pumps yet thankfully.

I hope those strength gains kick in big time this week because we'll be moving a high volume of heavy weights. Here's what the Barbell lifts this week will look like in case anyone is curious:

Monday: Bench Press
220x3,250x3,285x3+,250x3+,220x3+
Tuesday: Back Squat
285x4x6
Olympic lifting later in the day
Wednesday: Deadlift
400x3x3
Thursday: Back Squat
285x2x6
Olympic Lifting later in the day
Friday: Overhead Press
125x3,145x3,165x3+,145x3+,125x3+
Saturday: Back squat
285x5x6

 

[Justn55]

I am taking this exact cycle but I'm like you, I can't find a lot of guidance for incorporating the Winabol in with the Epi. Do you still plan to start the Win on week 4@300?

 

[Aaron330]

I am taking this exact cycle but I'm like you, I can't find a lot of guidance for incorporating the Winabol in with the Epi. Do you still plan to start the Win on week 4@300?

Yes that's the plan. When are you starting your cycle? You can always keep up with our log here to find out if this will be a good way to dose/cycle it together. I haven't found much online either but some people on the forums have assured me that this is a good way to go.

 

[drewacious]

Yeah same here def have put on weight. No real strength gains but I hope this week it will kick it up and I'll notice it. Been waking up the passed two days at 188lbs with an empty stomach rather than 183lbs so def happy about that. I'm ready for this week to kick off and like Aaron said above were lifting heavy 6 days a week. Def a hardcore training regimen I don't really see many people lifting heavy 6 days a week so hopefully we will see even more weight gains and the strength kick in since it's only been a week.

 

[Abadjiev]

What type of programming are you running for Weighlifting? Did you design it, or a coach, or are you using some template?

 

[drewacious]

What type of programming are you running for Weighlifting? Did you design it, or a coach, or are you using some template?

were both running a plan made personally by him "Aaron" but the Russian squat isn't what we created just basing it off the design program off the spreadsheet. All the other lifts are our own Aaron is a personal trainer and we both work long hours at a smaller gym so we have a lot of time to do research and workout to work on techniques as well as percentages. Aaron's the man.

 

[Aaron330]

Week 2 Overview

Strength gains kicked in this week big time! And no sides to report of yet at all besides some lethargy during the day. Body weight has gone up to 202.

Monday was a HUGE strength increase on the bench press. We're doing the 5/3/1 program for Bench, and this week was my 3+ set. I will post my previous best, followed by the numbers I hit last Monday.

Previous Best: 215x3, 245x3, 275x5, 245x8, 215x13
New Best: 220x3, 250x3, 280x7, 250x9, 220x13 (Total weight lifted increase of 750#)

Yep, you read that right I went from hitting 275 for 5 reps a month ago, to 280 for 7 reps. Those are some pretty epic gains for a pro!

Squats are also feeling alot easier as our 6x2 used to bury us it felt so heavy, but this week we hit a 6x5 with the same weight and we repped it out like a bunch of warm up sets.

Deadlift day was the same, I pulled 405 for a 3x3, and after that I pulled 435 for an easy double. The barbell was flying off the floor.

Strict Overhead Press day on Friday was another great gain. I'll post my previous best followed by what I hit last Friday

Previous best: 125x3, 140x3, 160x4, 140x8, 125x10
New Best: 125x3, 145x3, 160x5, 145x8, 125x13 (Overall weight lifted increase of 530#)

So the strength gains came nicely this week, and its only week 2. Hopefully they will keep going up and up as we continue through the cycle. Andrew had similar strength gains as I did, but I'll let him post his numbers if he wants.

 

[Aaron330]

What type of programming are you running for Weighlifting? Did you design it, or a coach, or are you using some template?

Oh I think you are talking specifically about Olympic Weightlifting. I usually run an Oly Cycle from Catalyst Athletics, since they are fantastic. For this cycle since the volume is so high, I'm trying to back down on things that make me sore and stick mostly to assistance lifts like Snatch Balance, Jerk from blocks, Snatch and Cleans from blocks so my posterior chain will be fresh for deadlift day. Not doing a whole lot of pulling from the floor for that reason. So to answer your question, I'm kind of just programming for myself right now but I usually follow a template.

 

[drewacious]

Def have seen some increase in strength!! Hit 230lbs on bench press for 7 reps which is a huge PR for me. Wednesday 3x3 365lbs felt pretty light with my one rep at 425lbs. Friday I hit 185lbs on overhead press which is my bodyweight and hit 165lbs for 7 reps HUGE PR I only would get around 3-5 reps usually. Yesterday was by far the biggest strength increase hitting our 6x5 Russian squat program. First set wasn't so bad then rep-ed out 1 set of 5 in 14 seconds which was literally flying up felt amazing. Today is our heavy bench lift so hoping to see some even more strength gains!!

 

[Toads Tool]

Sounds like you two are off to a great start! PR s abound

 

[Aaron330]

Sounds like you two are off to a great start! PR s abound

Yesterday was Bench day...and holy ****...the strength gains were for real.

I think I listed my previous max at 335, which I hit a month or so ago. Yesterday we had our 5/3/1 day, and my 1+ set was 300. I hit it for FOUR reps. Felt crazy light, so we decided to max out. I hit my previous PR at 335 with ease, and went for 345 and hit that without too much struggle too. I wanted to go for 350 but I was too worn out. If I had gone straight for 350 I'm confident I would have hit it. But either way, that was an EASY 10 lb PR, and I'm sure there'll be more to come!

I love this compound lol

Edit: If you wanna watch the lifts, I posted them on my instagram here: http://instagram.com/p/quv6vqulES/?modal=true

I'll be posting videos of all my PR's for the next 5-6 weeks so follow me if you're interested in checking them out. I'll follow back

 

[Aaron330]

Week 3 Overview

Don't need to say anything about the strength gains made on Monday, as I posted it about it that day. Easy 10 lb pr and could have hit more had I planned it out. Squats are feeling even stronger even tho were adding more volume. Did a 6x6 with 285 and felt great. Did a 5x5 on Deadlifts with 350 and it also felt extremely light compared to how heavy it usually feels. Going for some heavy singles this week so I'll see how close I can get to 500.

Hit another HUGE PR on strict overhead press. A month or two ago, I tried to press 170 for a 1RM and couldn't get it...on Friday I pressed 170x4. Also on my instagram if you'd like to watch it here: http://instagram.com/p/q4z2vYulEy/?modal=true
On my previous 1+ set four weeks ago, I pressed 165 for 3. So needless to say that's a fantastic PR.

No real side effects at all so far besides sore knees from all the squatting. Still weighing about 200-202.

This week we up the Epi dosage to 45 and add 300mg of Winabol as well...so hopefully the gains will continue!!

Also want to mention we will be taking Furaza by Olympus Labs, not Winabol. It's dosed slightly more potent for the same price and an Olympus labs rep gave us a nice discount code

 

[Bigdaz123]

So are you stacking Nolva, Raloxifene, Ostarine all into your PCT? or are you both using different ones from the PCT list?

 

[Aaron330]

Week 4 Overview

I did a crossfit competition this weekend so I took it very light on the strength work knowing I was going to massacre my body over the weekend. However Drew and I did a set of back squats on tuesday and decided to work up to a heavy double. I hit my previous 1RM (355) for an EASY double. It felt so easy I ended up going for 405 for a 1 rep and just barely missed it, and then hit 390 without a problem. Definitely am going to hit 405 in two more weeks. Drew actually hit 360 for a 2RM, which is crazy because his 1RM from 4 weeks ago was 340 LOL. Strength gains are definitely picking up. Our squat cycle starts to get extremely heavy for these next 3 weeks so we're expecting the strength gains to continue. Body weight is 204 now and no real side effects to speak of. Little lethargy still but a 5 hour energy clears that up. Some mild acne on the upper back is about all. Libido is decently high still, so I'm really happy with how things are going.

 

[Justn55]

Question guys: how are you guys running you doses right now? I'm beginning week 4 this week. Are you guys evenly dosing the Epi/Fur(6AM, 12PM, 6PM) or are you dosing AM and then double Pre-Workout for example? I'm loving Epi by itself... vascularity, strength and a bodyfat reduction of 2%. I have a pretty good diet and program in general but this has already been a very good plateau buster. I wish I could have tracked my personal experience a little better but nevertheless Epi is a good compound. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[Aaron330]

Question guys: how are you guys running you doses right now? I'm beginning week 4 this week. Are you guys evenly dosing the Epi/Fur(6AM, 12PM, 6PM) or are you dosing AM and then double Pre-Workout for example? I'm loving Epi by itself... vascularity, strength and a bodyfat reduction of 2%. I have a pretty good diet and program in general but this has already been a very good plateau buster. I wish I could have tracked my personal experience a little better but nevertheless Epi is a good compound. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Hey man, sorry for the late reply. The way we were dosing the Epi was 30mg an hour before workout, and 15mg about 4-5 hours later. As for the Furaza, we were doing it at breakfast lunch dinner, but that got tiring so now we're just taking half in the morning and half at night. We'll be posting our end of cycle summary a little later today, so stay tuned for some epic results!

 

[Aaron330]

Post Cycle Review and Stats: This cycle was awesome! Made so many huge gains in strength on every single lift. We sure worked our asses off for them though. Heavy strength training 6 days a week, usually multiple times a day left my body feeling crushed. But I definitely got the absolute max out of my cycle. We decided to cut it at 7 weeks instead of 8 because we were sick of the lethargy every day. By far the worst side effect of pro's IMO.

Below are my gains made. I'll list them this way: Pre-Cycle/Post Cycle=overall increase

I would also like to add that ALL of these PR lifts are on my instagram. You can check them out here http://instagram.com/aaronabke
Weight: 195/205=10lbs
Body Fat: 7.6%/8.5%=.9%
Lean Body Mass: 180.18/188.38=8.2 lbs
Height: 6 1'

Arm: 16"/16.5=.5 inches
Thigh: 24"/25.5=1.5 inches
Chest: 45.5"/48= 2.5 inches
Waist: 35"/35.5= .5 inches

Bench Press: 330/355= 25lbs
Back Squat: 360/405= 45lbs
Deadlift: 460/490= 30lbs
Overhead Press: 175/190= 15lbs

Oly Lifts:
Front Squat: 275/315= 40lbs
Clean&Jerk: 235/255= 20lbs
Snatch: 190 did not test

Before&After Pics:

 

[Aaron330]

Just about done with PCT and I wanted to post 1 last time before the cycle is officially over. It looks like after it was all said and done, I netted 8 lbs of total weight gain as I've stayed at 203. I've been really surprised that I only lost about 2-3 lbs in PCT and kept the rest. From what I can tell I've also kept all my strength gains too. I'm lifting with my working set percentages based on all the numbers I hit on cycle and am hitting them with no problem. Overall I am blown away at how well this cycle went. I kept the vast majority of all the gains I made on cycle, which is unusual for a prohormone cycle based on all the other logs I've read. I think a big part of that is due to the fact that I focus almost solely on heavy barbell lifts whereas a lot of guys put more of their focus on isolation work or dumbbell work, which doesn't give you quite as much bang for your buck as the compound lifts. Could possibly be the reason, I can't say for sure. But I do know that I continued to squat heavy 3x/week, deadlift bench and overhead press heavy once a week, and eat super clean and super big all through PCT. That is definitely the way to go if you're trying to maximize your post cycle gains. I would definitely recommend this cycle to anyone as it went seamlessly all throughout including PCT. Never any sign of puffy nips or anything of the sort through PCT. I'm just bigger and stronger than I was 12 weeks ago. Doesn't look like too many people followed this log, but Feel free to ask any questions you may have!

This is a pic I snapped yesterday. Definitely look much thicker and more defined than in the pre-cycle pic in my opinion. Great gains on these compounds.