Puffy nipples on Epi?

militarymuscl

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I'm currently on day 15 of running a relatively mild cycle of Epi at 20/30/30/40. For PCT I have Torem, DAA and AD3 -pct. About two days ago I noticed my nipples were getting slightly puffier and it seems as a whole that I'm holding a lot of water this cycle. Is this normal with Epistane? As well as should I keep on with the cycle or immediately start pct. It doesn't itch or hurt to touch, my nipples just seem extra puffy. In currently deployed and work weird hours so a quick response would be appreciated.
 
stann123

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are there lumps behind your nips? What brand of epi?
 
Abadjiev

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I've been holding a little water on my Epi cycle as well. I haven't had the puffy nips, but I imagine its possible. I have an AI on hand just in case. Good luck.
 
bcazo

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You could add some Formabolic to use as an AI.. It will help dry you out while finishing your cycle and could be continued in PCT. It's gotten some rave reviews , check out http://ironflexsupps.com/Formabolic use code BCAZO20 for 20 %off!!!
 

militarymuscl

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It's IBE epistane, it feels like there could be a small fatty like deposit under my nipple. But not really a hard lump. Would running a small dose of Erase help? I'm just surprised I'm holding all this water.
 
bcazo

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It's IBE epistane, it feels like there could be a small fatty like deposit under my nipple. But not really a hard lump. Would running a small dose of Erase help? I'm just surprised I'm holding all this water.
If it is then I would get a real AI like Letro.. Check out some of the Reseach Chem sponsors on this forum.
 

kolejorg

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Get some formeron and use it at 2 pumps a day for the rest of your cycle and make sure you have a good ai for your pct. there's been a lot of guys lately getting gyno on halodrol and epi cycles. It's not supposed to happen but it is. So run an ai on cycle and be safe. Your joints may suck but up your omega 3 and you'll live
 
bcazo

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Get some formeron and use it at 2 pumps a day for the rest of your cycle and make sure you have a good ai for your pct. there's been a lot of guys lately getting gyno on halodrol and epi cycles. It's not supposed to happen but it is. So run an ai on cycle and be safe. Your joints may suck but up your omega 3 and you'll live
just like I recommended above... :)
 

kolejorg

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Maybe he will listen then :)

I'm not sure what's going on with epi and halodrol lately, but there's been a lot of this going on the last few months. I've seen multiple threads of people a week or two into their cycle getting lumps or puffy nipples. Puffy I wouldn't worry about, but it's still easier to treat it preemptively.
 

militarymuscl

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I have some erase but an AI would take a while to get here because of me being deployed and such. I really thought doing my research that a 4 week cycle would be relatively easy, as long as I had proper liver support and PCT. I have enough torem for about 45 days if ran correctly. Should I start a low dose of that. It's crazy this is happening because I have the highest sex drive ever but my nipples are getting puffy.
 
Wolfy3d2000

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I have some erase but an AI would take a while to get here because of me being deployed and such. I really thought doing my research that a 4 week cycle would be relatively easy, as long as I had proper liver support and PCT. I have enough torem for about 45 days if ran correctly. Should I start a low dose of that. It's crazy this is happening because I have the highest sex drive ever but my nipples are getting puffy.
Erase is an AI
 

kolejorg

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If you have the 90 count old school erase dose it 3 pills a day for a week and see how you are.
 
bert45

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Does epi break down into madol? Phera? Or was this a myth curious bcuz I was holding water aswell in my last ibe epistane cycle
 
jbryand101b

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I'm currently on day 15 of running a relatively mild cycle of Epi at 20/30/30/40. For PCT I have Torem, DAA and AD3 -pct. About two days ago I noticed my nipples were getting slightly puffier and it seems as a whole that I'm holding a lot of water this cycle. Is this normal with Epistane? As well as should I keep on with the cycle or immediately start pct. It doesn't itch or hurt to touch, my nipples just seem extra puffy. In currently deployed and work weird hours so a quick response would be appreciated.
Epi gives me gyno.
 
jbryand101b

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Does epi break down into madol? Phera? Or was this a myth curious bcuz I was holding water aswell in my last ibe epistane cycle
It can. If you were given a piss test, you would have madol metabolites
 

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This is strange.. But an ai will do you no good unless you are on testosterone as well.. Probably what happened is you suppressed your testosterone and your body is taking a while to clear the estrogen that normally wouldn't bother you..

Unless you you have testosterone and it's aromatizing now binding to aromatase enzyme and deactivating it isn't going to do much.. If you are shut down you just have to wait for your estrogen to crash like your testosterone did.
 
jbryand101b

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When on androgens that's all your going to be doing, making estrogen.
 
Godstrength

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This is strange.. But an ai will do you no good unless you are on testosterone as well.. Probably what happened is you suppressed your testosterone and your body is taking a while to clear the estrogen that normally wouldn't bother you.. Unless you you have testosterone and it's aromatizing now binding to aromatase enzyme and deactivating it isn't going to do much.. If you are shut down you just have to wait for your estrogen to crash like your testosterone did.
Say wha?? Clear the estrogen??
 

ezjax

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Say wha?? Clear the estrogen??
estrogen clears on its own..

your body makes it based on supply and demand..

as far as i know estrogen in men can only be made by aromatization... so if epi doesnt aromatize...

so other than shutting down you testosterone and still having estrogen in your system to bind to receptors in breast tissue.. i dont see how the epi is the problem..

as a matter of fact epistanol non methyl injection is a good ai..

the 17aa changes that tho but i still dont tgink it aromatizes
 
Peppers

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Anabolics downregulate SHBG, increasing free estrogen. Also, what little test that is present tends to be preferentially aromatized. That's why I tend to run an AI on any cycle, regardless of aromatization.

I copied and pasted, lol
 
jbryand101b

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you need to spend more time in the ask pa sub forum over on phf, cause your a bit incorrect in like... everything except non methyl epi is used as a weak ai.


estrogen clears on its own..

your body makes it based on supply and demand..

as far as i know estrogen in men can only be made by aromatization... so if epi doesnt aromatize...

so other than shutting down you testosterone and still having estrogen in your system to bind to receptors in breast tissue.. i dont see how the epi is the problem..

as a matter of fact epistanol non methyl injection is a good ai..

the 17aa changes that tho but i still dont tgink it aromatizes
 

ezjax

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Anabolics downregulate SHBG, increasing free estrogen. Also, what little test that is present tends to be preferentially aromatized. That's why I tend to run an AI on any cycle, regardless of aromatization.I copied and pasted, lol
this is true for strong compounds like m1t. this is also a theory not a fact as far as i know..i dont know if epi affects shbg..
 

ezjax

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you need to spend more time in the ask pa sub forum over on phf, cause your a bit incorrect in like... everything except non methyl epi is used as a weak ai.
if you say so.. so how is estrogen made? a non aromatizing steroid causes your body to "make estrogen" ????tell me moreEstradiol in elderly men. [Aging Male. 2002] - PubMed - NCBIbasically says most estradiol is produced by aromstization Sources of estrogen and their imp... [J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI same thing in a more round about way
 
jbryand101b

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If those studies are on users of non aromatizing steroids, I'll read them.

After I type out this long explanation, I'm going to neg the shiit out of you. Over over again.
 
jbryand101b

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First, shut down is a misleading term. One is never "shut down", even when using Deca at 600mg for 20 weeks.
Lh an fsh are both suppressed, but production still goes on.
Without getting into specifics, dhea is a sex hormone produced, and from there, andro-dione/diol is produced, then estrogen or test can be produced, and again, estrogen can be made, or dht.
Still following. Good.

The htpa axis's job is to keep everything in balance.
When you use exogenous hormones, especially ones that bind strongly to the androgen receptor ( like Epi )
The htpa senses this surge/imbalance in androgens, and will do two things, (well, a whole bunch of hormones get all whacked out, but that's too much to discuss on my phone) ,
It will slow production of androgens and increase production of aromatase, all in an attempt to balance out the androgen:estrogen ratio/balance.

When taking non aromatizable steroids, this should happen to a higher degree.
Because now, with production of aromatizable androgens slowed, and the supraphysiological amounts of non aromatizable androgens in the system, the body will then attempt to fix this imbalance.
How, by converting the andro an test that's being produced still, into estrogen.

This isn't even getting into the entire line of other hormones all thrown out of wack from introducing supraphysiological dosages of synthetic androgens into your system
 

ezjax

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If those studies are on users of non aromatizing steroids, I'll read them.After I type out this long explanation, I'm going to neg the shiit out of you. Over over again.
lol estrogen is produced how its produced.. that doesnt change..igf-1 could be the culprit in aggrevating existing breast tissue as well but thats another story.. oh and i didnt dig up the study but unmethylated epi is a potent ai


so your testosterone that you arent producing any more or that you are minimally producing is aromatizing into enough estrogen to cause gyno?theory at best... probably genetic predisposition along with pre existing tissue.. im not a doctor and i dont claim to know whats causing it.. but i dont think whatever little testosterone he is producing is enough to aromatize into enough estrogen to offset all the epi he is taking and cause gyno.. i also think if he waits or ups the epi dose it will likely go away.. in my opinion not giving advice
 
jbryand101b

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http://www.prohormoneforum.com/index.php/topic/26854-thoughts-on-epistane-for-gyno-reduction/

gyno on non aromatizing compounds is weird and unexplainable and there are only theories.. read what patrick arnold has to say
Yea. You didn't understand that conversation.

Androgen estrogen balance is they key word here.

He stated understanding gyno from steroids isn't fully understood because it's caused from multiple hormonal imbalances.
Androgen estrogen balance.
Some people aren't effected by estrogen as much, and androgens can have a bigger impact on this balance, and shift the balance in favor of androgens.
But the body will attempt to make things even again.
 

ezjax

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Yea. You didn't understand that conversation.Androgen estrogen balance is they key word here.He stayed understanding gyno from steroids isn't fully understood because it's caused from multiple hormonal imbalances.Androgen estrogen balance.Some people aren't effected by estrogen as much, and androgens can have a bigger impact on this balance, and shift the balance in favor of androgens.But the body will attempt to make things even again.
the body can not just "create" estrogen to balance things without something to aromatize...i think its you who is misunderstanding . oh and i edited the above post.. you are really condescending and really arent posting any factual information.. theory is theory and you are entitled to yours..but lol at thinking its not pre existing and genetic predisposition.. just normal aromatization.. and that he should take drugs instead of letting it clear on its own..i think i have proven my point.. feel free to respond with another condescending comment.. you can have the last word
 
jbryand101b

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The post you quoted is in response to the phf thread.

The body still produces aromatizable compounds, even while on high dosages of nor testosterone, for long periods of time.
This isn't theory, this is a fact.
Op asked about puffy nips from using Epi.

I guess the androgenic properties weren't enough to shift the estrogen androgen balance in favor of androgens.
Because you know, Epi is a non aromatizable dht derivative and there is zero estrogen in his body being produced.

I'll go over to phf and make a thread in the ask pa sub forum, hopefully he'll comment as this topic has been covered by him numerous times.
 
musclemaker

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epi itself is an anti estrogen prohormone... so the chances of it being caused by estrogen is unlikely. It can possibly even be because of elevated prolactin if it feels PUFFY instead of lumpy which is also strange because epi is not known to cause your prolactin levels to rise... but you can try running inhibit-p or prolactrone to see if it helps reduce the puffyness.
 
jbryand101b

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Epi isn't an anti estrogen compound, nor is it a pro hormone.

There are a lot of individual variables at play, without base line hormonal blood work, prior to ever touching androgenic anabolic compounds, your just guessing until you find something that works.
 

militarymuscl

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Alright friends, I took 3 caps of erase at 75 mg and at the end of day 2 I was thinking my joints should be a tad tight right now. So I look on the back of the bottle and PES has changed their formula from Androsta-3, 5 to Anbieta-8, 11. I guess they did this to Erase and Erase Pro. I didn't even know they continued to crest Erase. So I made the decision to start taking my AD-pct because it has the 75mg of Androsta in it. I'm still taking the Epi at three caps a day as well. I think I'll just order another bottle of the AD-pct so I'll have enough to take with my Torem. I wish legit Hdrol would just majestically appear again. Anyways do you guys think this is a good plan?
 

militarymuscl

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Update on cycle though. I'm on day 16 and just put a PR of 1 clean rep of 355 on bench. So that's up about 15lbs. Back pumps were battled by Taurine.
My stats in the bringing were 5"9' at 228 at about 16% bodyfat
I'm now at 225 with about 14-15% but my shoulders have become a lot more noticeable. Good compound it just seems like my nipples hate it. Even with the **** ton of B6. Hopefully starting the ad3-pct on cycle will help. I hate that PES changed their erase formula. Androsta seemed to be the ****.
 
jbryand101b

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Iron mag labs hdrol clone is legit.

It's a bit expensive, but I know it's one of the best I've used.
 
stann123

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Iron mag labs hdrol clone is legit.

It's a bit expensive, but I know it's one of the best I've used.
I've heard this aswell, wish I spent the extra $$ instead of going with hardrock halo. Does that 5mg of 5a-hydroxy laxogenin do anything?
 
reps4jesus

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I've heard this aswell, wish I spent the extra $$ instead of going with hardrock halo. Does that 5mg of 5a-hydroxy laxogenin do anything?
I made that mistake also on my second hdrol cycle. Dynamic formulas. Underdosed IMO. 125mg felt like 75.
 

militarymuscl

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So do you guys think I should stop the cycle and start pct. Or see how running AD3-pct on cycle works first? This is crazy that Epistane is 1. Making me hold water and 2. Getting puffy nipples. 2 things I thought didn't happen on this cycle. Especially one of 4 weeks.
 

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Everyone's body is different. And epi and halodrol seem to be kicking people in the ass lately. If your nipples are just puffy and you have no lumps throw in an ai and ride it out. I personally won't use anything without an ai anymore. No reason to risk it and I can deal with achy joints. If you have a lump, abort and hit the nolva.
 
dbrock504

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Maybe he will listen then :)

I'm not sure what's going on with epi and halodrol lately, but there's been a lot of this going on the last few months. I've seen multiple threads of people a week or two into their cycle getting lumps or puffy nipples. Puffy I wouldn't worry about, but it's still easier to treat it preemptively.
So I've been keeping up with this thread because I am about to get on a halo cycle and this kind of worries me. It doesn't worry me to an extent to where I don't run the bottle, but I want to make sure I can correct anything if need be. I currently have Halo-V by Vital Labs and I'm going to run it with the Blockade by Assault Labs. I didn't think halo or epi for that matter needed an AI, so I don't have one on cycle. For PCT I am running PCT3x by Vital Labs and Nolva. Yes I have fish oils, multi, etc., and I've been pre-loading these 2 weeks with Milk Thistle just to be safe, but do you think this is sufficient? I could actually use a lower libido considering mine has always been through the roof and the wife will be gone for these 5 weeks on cycle. This being my first run, I want to be cautious. I want to make this run worth my while, so I am considering buying an additional bottle. It comes with 80 pills, but that only allows me to dose it at 50mg for 5 weeks and 5 days. I was wanting to run it 50/75/75/75 but I was told that is too short. Most gains aren't seen until week 3 for most folks. Can I have 2 different brands? (ie. Halo-V by Vital Labs 80ct and Halo25 by LGI 60ct) I would hate having that many extra pills left over. I see that as essentially wasted money. In retrospect, I should have bought 2 bottles of the LGI.
 

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Mixing brands is fine. I would dose it 50/75/75/75/100/100 if you can. Or stay at 75. For me 100 worked great. I also ran stano with it for lethargy. That being said in hindsight I would have used something like formeron for the last few weeks of my cycle or money permitting the entire thing through 2 weeks past pct. far too many cases of puffy nipples turning Into lumps are showing up lately. My issue arouse the last week of pct on nolva and erase as my ai. I hit it with a real ai and kept my hard erect nipples from becoming an issue. Sorry I'm a bit tired so I hope this makes sense. So In summary different brands is fine. An ai on cycle won't hurt, some say it might mitigate your gains a bit but peace of mind is priceless.
 
dbrock504

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Thanks man. Ya I was told running an AI with halo will completely shut my estro down. Estro is not a bad thing and I need some. However, going to get another bottle of halo and run it at that dose. I will go ahead and start Monday then, so I will build a log here soon.
 

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Running an ai on cycle won't shut your estrogen down. And even if you don't run it on your cycle make sure you have one or you may regret it.
 
dbrock504

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Ok then I will probably get me a bottle of PES Erase. So what, do I just take the erase when I feel gyno coming on?
 
McCrew530

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Ok then I will probably get me a bottle of PES Erase. So what, do I just take the erase when I feel gyno coming on?
I would check out Formabolic, its a transdermal formestain and has been very good to people on cycle. Itchy puffy nipples are a sign that your body is out of whack with its estrogen. Im not sure about the new version of erase but the old one was a great AI but KILLED my libido where as Formestane took care of the estrogen sides and with out putting my D!ck in the dirt. Keep in mind however that Halo does not aromatize so there is a very good chance that you will not need an AI on cycle. I would have some on hand just in case but if you dont use it on cycle you can always use it during PCT.
If you want to take the Formabolic rout use code MCCREW20 on the ironflex site to save 20% off your order, We also have a halo clone that works very well.
Cheers
 

kolejorg

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I used to love erase and swear by it. But I won't use it again. Formabolic has good reviews, I think Olympus labs has a version coming out too. If you feel your nipples getting bitchy start using something quickly.
 

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