M-Sten or DMZ?

[M.I.D]

Hey guys,

As above, which is better for Sides vs Gains?? Inc liver toxicity of course.

Cheers

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I'd go with DMZ. Less sides than with M-Sten for me. Gains are similar.

 

[M.I.D]

I'd go with DMZ. Less sides than with M-Sten for me. Gains are similar.

Is DMZ harsher on the liver being Dimethyl??

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Is DMZ harsher on the liver being Dimethyl??

Msten is also Dimethyl.

 

[M.I.D]

Msten is also Dimethyl.

So it is, my bad!

What you running as liver supps with yours?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

So it is, my bad!

What you running as liver supps with yours?

It is all good

Just running Damage Control, though I hear BP is a bigger issue than liver.

 

[Tagger]

I've taken Sten and it's awesome. Either way, you come out winning.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

M.I.D

AR1MACARE Pro is a great all-in-one cycle support product.

 

[themayor]

I just got done MSTEN, never had DMZ. So can't really tell you what one to use.
But with MSTEN I gained like 8 good pounds of muscle.

 

[Tagger]

I just got done MSTEN, never had DMZ. So can't really tell you what one to use.
But with MSTEN I gained like 8 good pounds of muscle.

What dose did you run?

 

[themayor]

What dose did you run?

Started and ended using 16mg ED.
4 weeks.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

I've taken Sten and it's awesome. Either way, you come out winning.

I think it funny that most of the people in here only have tried one, but not the other.

btw, sorry off subject.. What happen to that idea with making your own custom PHs?

 

[Tagger]

I think it funny that most of the people in here only have tried one, but not the other.

btw, sorry off subject.. What happen to that idea with making your own custom PHs?

Still playing around with it haha. I am still very much interested. Just got busy you know.

Yah I ran mine at 24 ED. Had epic gainzzz.

 

[stann123]

Still playing around with it haha. I am still very much interested. Just got busy you know.

Yah I ran mine at 24 ED. Had epic gainzzz.

That sounds interesting. So it would basically be like truenutrition, except for phs?

 

[Tagger]

That sounds interesting. So it would basically be like truenutrition, except for phs?

Hadn't thought of it that way but yah kind of!

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Still playing around with it haha. I am still very much interested. Just got busy you know.

Yah I ran mine at 24 ED. Had epic gainzzz.

I gotcha life is a very wishy washy, I got lots on my plate now too. ha. Well looking forward to some new goods.

Was thinking about getting some msten for winter bridge(osta) to m1t oxime. I hear it is a bit wet though?

 

[Tagger]

I gotcha life is a very wishy washy, I got lots on my plate now too. ha. Well looking forward to some new goods.

Was thinking about getting some msten for winter bridge(osta) to m1t oxime. I hear it is a bit wet though?

For the most part I think I looked dry.

Msten is supposed to be like SD but less sides.

Hell I didn't even know it was working until I went into the gym and my bench went up 40lbs (within two weeks).

 

[Abe Lincoln]

For the most part I think I looked dry.

Msten is supposed to be like SD but less sides.

Hell I didn't even know it was working until I went into the gym and my bench went up 40lbs (within two weeks).

What were you eating for? Bulk, Cut, Recomp? That is pretty impressive strength, but how was your size gains and how much kept?

Well, I'm not worried so much about bloat because it will be winter, though don't want bunch of sides.

 

[Tagger]

What were you eating for? Bulk, Cut, Recomp? That is pretty impressive strength, but how was your size gains and how much kept?

Well, I'm not worried so much about bloat because it will be winter, though don't want bunch of sides.

Sten for me was sideless.

No kidding, no back pumps, no acne none of that ****. I had shin splints because I gained to much weight.

I kept almost all of my gains and I targeted chest and biceps and I had people asking me if I was on steroids. I was on a lean bulk. I started at 172 and stopped at 186 lost the glycogen and that stuff and evened out at 183 today. The Osta hasn't let any of my gains go honestly (little to any).

 

[fueledpassion]

I've had em both...

At the same time.

20mg of each. But I personally think 10mg SD with 20-30mg of DMZ would actually be the best experience for myself.

 

[Tagger]

I've had em both...

At the same time.

20mg of each

I bet that was a wild ride.

 

[fueledpassion]

I bet that was a wild ride.

Actually, I was tight as a tick the whole time, strength was unfair and I ate 500g carbs every day and still didnt get any fatter. The very first day on I hit a PR in squats, which was 315 X 15.

I will say this though that DMZ needs higher dosing and for 6 weeks.

I only packed on 8lbs, kept 6 of it for 6 months afterwards but I was at the tail end of a bulking season when my insulin resistance was HIGH. I should have primed my body with a 3-4 week cut/starvation diet to get my body ready to grow again.

My receptors weren't even rested from the previous Hdrol cycle, which was just 9 weeks before that one in which I put on 10lbs of mass. So all in all I did 18-20lbs of mass in a 3.5 month window. Too much weight.

If I had done it right and prepped myself for another bulk run I'd have seen 12+ easy from that stack. Being 5'5", 12lbs is a big difference. But it was a sponsored log in which I won free stuff and they wanted me to run it before Chrimma time so I did.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Sten for me was sideless.

No kidding, no back pumps, no acne none of that ****. I had shin splints because I gained to much weight.

I kept almost all of my gains and I targeted chest and biceps and I had people asking me if I was on steroids. I was on a lean bulk. I started at 172 and stopped at 186 lost the glycogen and that stuff and evened out at 183 today. The Osta hasn't let any of my gains go honestly (little to any).

Well sides are based on individual I guess. Maybe I could stack it with my DMZ lol.

ha. people asked me if I was on steroids before I started cycling, they can't understand hardwork and just are haters. 10-11 lbm is pretty damn good, got to get me some of that osta :yup:

 

[Tagger]

Well sides are based on individual I guess. Maybe I could stack it with my DMZ lol.

ha. people asked me if I was on steroids before I started cycling, they can't understand hardwork and just are haters. 10-11 lbm is pretty damn good, got to get me some of that osta :yup:

Hell yah. I ****ing love Osta.

I've been thinking about running a DMZ log, everyone seems to like it.

 

[bcazo]

I'd go with an Msten product like this http://ironflexsupps.com/Prohormones?product_id=59 and if you use code BCAZO20 you save another 20%!!!

 

[Tagger]

I'd go with an Msten product like this http://ironflexsupps.com/Prohormones?product_id=59 and if you use code BCAZO20 you save another 20%!!!

Lol..

 

[bcazo]

Lol..

Glad I could make you laugh!!!

 

[Tagger]

Glad I could make you laugh!!!

It's the Benadryl I took... It's the only thing that helps me with Allergies.

 

[fueledpassion]

I'd go with an Msten product like this http://ironflexsupps.com/Prohormones?product_id=59 and if you use code BCAZO20 you save another 20%!!!

If he does, I recommend running it at 30mg...

It aint near as hard on the body as SD is. But, it also doesnt perform quite like SD either. Part of SD's harshness is the 10-15lbs of mass gains in 10 days flat, lol.

All wheezin and crap goin up the stairs...

 

[bcazo]

It's the Benadryl I took... It's the only thing that helps me with Allergies.

LMAO!!!

 

[Tagger]

If he does, I recommend running it at 30mg...

It aint near as hard on the body as SD is. But, it also doesnt perform quite like SD either. Part of SD's harshness is the 10-15lbs of mass gains in 10 days flat, lol.

All wheezin and crap goin up the stairs...

True that. Never got to run SD, but I have done plenty of research.

 

[bcazo]

If he does, I recommend running it at 30mg...

It aint near as hard on the body as SD is. But, it also doesnt perform quite like SD either. Part of SD's harshness is the 10-15lbs of mass gains in 10 days flat, lol.

All wheezin and crap goin up the stairs...

This^^^ LOL

 

[Abe Lincoln]

30mg msten, 30mg dmz

 

[fueledpassion]

30mg msten, 30mg dmz

Or just 60mg DMZ, imo.

 

[thepaul]

How are both compounds on lipids?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Or just 60mg DMZ, imo.

Yeah that is just a popular stack I see. I'm thinking of bumping up my dmz next week.

 

[fueledpassion]

How are both compounds on lipids?

Have no idea, lol. Probably not good though.

Hdrol was terrible on my lipids. Dropped my HDL like 30 points.

I now take Albuterol during cycles of orals now to mitigate the cholesterol effects. Plus Alb is a dang good strength chem in itself. It outperforms many of those designers in this area..

I should get a before and after on the lipids...although I havent run an oral cycle in a while, I bailed on another hdrol run because it was premature and I listened tomy body, which was saying "wait". I'm sure they are better now since I've leaned out and ran some Albut for 5-6 weeks or so. Last time I checked, mine were

HDL 35
LDL 136
Trig I think around 98?

So the combo must have trashed em up but honestly those numbers could be normal for me. I plan to get them done again soon though because I wanted to get my HDL above 40, which I'm confident it is now.

 

[bcazo]

Have no idea, lol. Probably not good though.

Hdrol was terrible on my lipids. Dropped my HDL like 30 points.

I now take Albuterol during cycles of orals now to mitigate the cholesterol effects. Plus Alb is a dang good strength chem in itself. It outperforms many of those designers in this area..

I should get a before and after on the lipids...although I havent run an oral cycle in a while, I bailed on another hdrol run because it was premature and I listened tomy body, which was saying "wait". I'm sure they are better now since I've leaned out and ran some Albut for 5-6 weeks or so. Last time I checked, mine were

HDL 35
LDL 136
Trig I think around 98?

So the combo must have trashed em up but honestly those numbers could be normal for me. I plan to get them done again soon though because I wanted to get my HDL above 40, which I'm confident it is now.

I did not know albuterol had a positive effect on Cholesterol... This is why I love FP always has great knowledge!!

 

[fueledpassion]

I did not know albuterol had a positive effect on Cholesterol... This is why I love FP always has great knowledge!!

Yessir, I havent personally verified it but there was a straight-forward study performed on normal folks for two weeks, @16mg/day. Results showed a 15% temporary decrease in LDL and a couple percent permanent increase in HDL. I'll get that study for ya..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8637445/

While on the Albuterol, it raised HDL by 10% & lowered LDL by 15%, and a week after stopping the TC and LDL went to baseline while HDL remained elecated by 5% give or take. Couple that with the fact that Alb can raise MPS by 15%, increases muscular performance and burns fat at an accelerated rate, it has become a staple in my cycles. Not during the off periods, just the cycles.

 

[thepaul]

Would you say that the reduction in HDL and increase in LDL only temporary? Or do they stay low/high for a long time after use.

 

[fueledpassion]

Would you say that the reduction in HDL and increase in LDL only temporary? Or do they stay low/high for a long time after use.

Well, the LDL sure. HDL may be semi permanent, which is good enough to ge ur cholesterol in check until u can make some lifestyle changes.

Secondly, I didnt/dont look at this as a long term solution, but a mitigation of the side effect of steroids. U may not need to even run 16mg/day to get that kind of result. 2, 4 or 6mg might be enough. You have to test and see, which might cost u nearly $200-300 all together, but would prove invaluable to try.

Steroid cholesterol raising effects are temporary too, and I'd rather avoid letting my chol get out of wack to begin with, hence using Alb on cycle.

 

[thepaul]

Thanks buddy

 

[Tagger]

I don't think it's permanent at all. Just my opinion though.

 

[M.I.D]

Which would I see more lean gains from??

 

[Tagger]

Which would I see more lean gains from??

I think that's really determined by diet. But idk it's a hard choice. I ran Sten and loved it. My next cycle is going to be DMZ so I can't tell you the difference yet haha.

 

[reps4jesus]

Msten was ok. I'm currently running dmz and liking it.

 

[Tagger]

Msten was ok. I'm currently running dmz and liking it.

Do you like dmz more?

 

[reps4jesus]

Do you like dmz more?

Ill know within a week

 

[M.I.D]

I think that's really determined by diet. But idk it's a hard choice. I ran Sten and loved it. My next cycle is going to be DMZ so I can't tell you the difference yet haha.

What results did you see from Msten?

I am wanting to lean out a lot!

 

[fueledpassion]

What results did you see from Msten?

I am wanting to lean out a lot!

Probably could lean out on either. Both are fairly dry.