Debating my first cycle...help out a noob.

Buffspartan

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So I don't know too much about anabolics, so I figured I'd post here before trying anything. I'm 22 years old and have been lifting for about 4 years. My gains have slowed down a lot lately and I have quite a few hormonal issues that my doctors refuse to address. Anyway I was thinking of doing a mild/safe/non-methylated prohormone cycle in the near future. Not necessarily right now, but definitely this year. I just want to get familiar with what is out there and what my options are. Again, I'm not looking for much, just a little boost. I have relatively low T levels for my age (high 300s), my libido levels suck, I have ED, and I have low energy levels. I did a bit of reading up on PH and I was thinking of maybe doing a 1-Androsterone and EpiAndrosterone stack with a basic cycle support and then using AD-3 and some sort of SERM as a PCT. I mean I'm not trying to gain 50 pounds or whatever, but another 10-15 pounds of lean mass plus dropping another 8% bodyfat would definitely be nice. I'm also not looking to use prohormones for the rest of my life, just maybe a cycle every couple of years and a T booster and an AI every so often. Help me out here guys
 
Peppers

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I understand what your saying and it sucks.

But with low t levels, I wouldn't wanna risk anything else that may put them lower in the long run. May put you on TRT sooner than expected.

Have you tried anything natty to help boost T levels? There are some nice products available.

Maybe some of the guys on HRT or TRT can add some help. I don't wanna stear you wrong.
 
Buffspartan

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I get what you're saying. And I've tried various T boosters and Natty Prohormone cycles....right now I'm doing 3000mg DAA, 75mg DHEA, and Lecheek Nutrition AD-3 (Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione 75 mg, Velvet Bean (standarized L-Dopa 99%) 800 mg, Milk Thistle 360 mg). I've only gotten subtle effects from the products I have used in the past. Oh, I've also been on prescription Prednisone and Methylprednisolone all my life, so I don't know if that may have some negative effect on my hormones. Right now I'm just on the AI to try to dry out since those drugs tend to make me hold onto water.
 
harbonah

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If I were you I would start by running clomid for a bit come off and see how you feel. There is nothing wrong with a healthily person running a few cycle but if you already have issues you should work with a doc to get to healthy levels.
 
Buffspartan

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If I were you I would start by running clomid for a bit come off and see how you feel. There is nothing wrong with a healthily person running a few cycle but if you already have issues you should work with a doc to get to healthy levels.
Yeah a lot of my buddies at the gym have been suggesting Clomid. I'm a little afraid of it because I heard it can mess up your libido levels and mine suck bad enough as it is. If you think it would help, I'll definitely try it. Any side effects associated with it? And would it be as a standalone product?
 
CT3

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You can research sides for yourself however clomid is prescribed by doctors sometimes for short periods of time to increase low T. Standalone, I'd say yes, maybe try 4 weeks and recheck bloods.
 
pg1369

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I would see a doctor to put you on a plan to get you up to healthy levels. They might prescribe various supps to get you back to the levels you should be at. Your to young to be having low libido and low T. Set your plan for long term not short term fix. IMO
 
Buffspartan

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I would see a doctor to put you on a plan to get you up to healthy levels. They might prescribe various supps to get you back to the levels you should be at. Your to young to be having low libido and low T. Set your plan for long term not short term fix. IMO
I've seen an endo and gen practitioner multiple times about the issue; they look at my arms, tell me I'm fine and kick me out. After giving me blood tests just to humor me they're like yeah you're fine, you're test is 375 (or 390, or 405 or 415) which is within average, bye. I asked my endo to refer me to another endo, specifically a male endo, she said she would, but never did and won't call me back. My general practitioner just referred me to a urologist for the libido and ED issues. When I called the urologist he was like yeah, that not something I deal with. She couldn't even refer me to the right friggin doctor!
 
emantest

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I've seen an endo and gen practitioner multiple times about the issue; they look at my arms, tell me I'm fine and kick me out. After giving me blood tests just to humor me they're like yeah you're fine, you're test is 375 (or 390, or 405 or 415) which is within average, bye. I asked my endo to refer me to another endo, specifically a male endo, she said she would, but never did and won't call me back. My general practitioner just referred me to a urologist for the libido and ED issues. When I called the urologist he was like yeah, that not something I deal with. She couldn't even refer me to the right friggin doctor!
I went through several road blocks until I got the help I was seeking. My situation is different than yours but should be able to find what your looking for. I called a compounding pharmacy in my area and asked to speak with the pharmacist. I asked who is doing the most hormone business and he gave me the top three. In my experience if a practitioner is prescribing compounding medicines they're more than likely willing to discuss different avenues for your success, especially at your age. Good luck.
 
pg1369

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I've seen an endo and gen practitioner multiple times about the issue; they look at my arms, tell me I'm fine and kick me out. After giving me blood tests just to humor me they're like yeah you're fine, you're test is 375 (or 390, or 405 or 415) which is within average, bye. I asked my endo to refer me to another endo, specifically a male endo, she said she would, but never did and won't call me back. My general practitioner just referred me to a urologist for the libido and ED issues. When I called the urologist he was like yeah, that not something I deal with. She couldn't even refer me to the right friggin doctor!
That's ridiculous! For any endo that would say anything near 400 at 22 is normal, is a joke of a phd. I would do what was suggested and ask you pharmacist to point you in the right direction. Have you tried keeping natural test boosters in your daily supps?
 
Buffspartan

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That's ridiculous! For any endo that would say anything near 400 at 22 is normal, is a joke of a phd. I would do what was suggested and ask you pharmacist to point you in the right direction. Have you tried keeping natural test boosters in your daily supps?
I've done natty cycles, but have never taken anything for longer than 2 months. Hormone boosters I've taken in the past are APE, Test Freak, Blue Gene, Blue Growth, Blue Up, Lecheek Nutrition AD-3, Iron Mag Labs E Control, DAA, DHEA, every form of ginseng in existence, every trib product in existence (mostly for libido boost), MACA, etc....maybe there are better ones I can use? Do you have any suggestions for daily use test boosters? And she's like oh yeah, based on your muscle size you're fine. Maybe the libido issues can be addressed by a urologist, but you certainly have no hormonal issues. I'm just so pissed, I should be at the prime of my life right now, but instead everyday is a struggle.
 
Buffspartan

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I went through several road blocks until I got the help I was seeking. My situation is different than yours but should be able to find what your looking for. I called a compounding pharmacy in my area and asked to speak with the pharmacist. I asked who is doing the most hormone business and he gave me the top three. In my experience if a practitioner is prescribing compounding medicines they're more than likely willing to discuss different avenues for your success, especially at your age. Good luck.
I will definitely do that, but how do I get a referral to that doctor if my doctors say I have nothing wrong? And is a compounding pharmacy different than a regular pharmacy?
 
emantest

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I will definitely do that, but how do I get a referral to that doctor if my doctors say I have nothing wrong? And is a compounding pharmacy different than a regular pharmacy?
You find a new physician and dump the guy posing as a medical professional for a servant of patients. You'll have to search for specific compounding pharmacy in your area. Once you get a list then see if those providers are in your network of physicians or it could be a health and wellness type clinic.
 
Buffspartan

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You find a new physician and dump the guy posing as a medical professional for a servant of patients. You'll have to search for specific compounding pharmacy in your area. Once you get a list then see if those providers are in your network of physicians or it could be a health and wellness type clinic.
As long as I get some help quick. I'll start looking into that asap. I tried to tough it out and deal with it since I wasn't getting any medical help on the issue, but I'm kind of just at my wits end.
 
emantest

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As long as I get some help quick. I'll start looking into that asap. I tried to tough it out and deal with it since I wasn't getting any medical help on the issue, but I'm kind of just at my wits end.
Sent you an IM.
 
Buffspartan

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I think I'm gonna try Clomid and follow it with a bottle of Formeron
 
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hewhoisripped

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Coming from the other thread OP, I'd say
1) find a good doc that is willing to at least work with you on this even if he doesn't want to prescribe
2) try the clomid/form run and see where it gets you (as I said, wait at least 8 weeks before being all happy about your 800+ test levels)
3) if that fails, or you decide to ditch it and run a cycle, please please don't try a ph. the reason I say this is that a) it will mess up your test levels and recovery as much if not more than test b) will probably have other negative health consequences that test wouldn't have and c) will tell you nothing about how it feels like to have good test levels. I think it would be much better for you if you do decide to cycle to try some lowish dosed short estered test, that way you can get some good gains and at the same time test the waters to see what TRT would be like for you. for me personally test/trt changed my life.
 
Peppers

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Coming from the other thread OP, I'd say 1) find a good doc that is willing to at least work with you on this even if he doesn't want to prescribe 2) try the clomid/form run and see where it gets you (as I said, wait at least 8 weeks before being all happy about your 800+ test levels) 3) if that fails, or you decide to ditch it and run a cycle, please please don't try a ph. the reason I say this is that a) it will mess up your test levels and recovery as much if not more than test b) will probably have other negative health consequences that test wouldn't have and c) will tell you nothing about how it feels like to have good test levels. I think it would be much better for you if you do decide to cycle to try some lowish dosed short estered test, that way you can get some good gains and at the same time test the waters to see what TRT would be like for you. for me personally test/trt changed my life.
Agree with you on this one.
 
Buffspartan

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Coming from the other thread OP, I'd say
1) find a good doc that is willing to at least work with you on this even if he doesn't want to prescribe
2) try the clomid/form run and see where it gets you (as I said, wait at least 8 weeks before being all happy about your 800+ test levels)
3) if that fails, or you decide to ditch it and run a cycle, please please don't try a ph. the reason I say this is that a) it will mess up your test levels and recovery as much if not more than test b) will probably have other negative health consequences that test wouldn't have and c) will tell you nothing about how it feels like to have good test levels. I think it would be much better for you if you do decide to cycle to try some lowish dosed short estered test, that way you can get some good gains and at the same time test the waters to see what TRT would be like for you. for me personally test/trt changed my life.
If all else fails and I do go to test, what would be a good dose/period of time to run it to avoid shutdown?
 
hewhoisripped

hewhoisripped

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If all else fails and I do go to test, what would be a good dose/period of time to run it to avoid shutdown?
there's no guarantee that you'll avoid shutdown (in fact I can almost guarantee you will be fully shutdown), but your best bet at ensuring optimal recovery would be running a short ester like test prop for 6 weeks or less, at a mild dose of between 30 and 35mg per day. that's a daily injection of about .3mL. I'd stay on the lower end (30mg) if you want to get a feel for trt, but at the higher end (35) if you want gains and to really feel the test. also remember that if on real trt you would be using a long ester, and would only have 1 weekly injection (2 tops).
 
Buffspartan

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there's no guarantee that you'll avoid shutdown (in fact I can almost guarantee you will be fully shutdown), but your best bet at ensuring optimal recovery would be running a short ester like test prop for 6 weeks or less, at a mild dose of between 30 and 35mg per day. that's a daily injection of about .3mL. I'd stay on the lower end (30mg) if you want to get a feel for trt, but at the higher end (35) if you want gains and to really feel the test. also remember that if on real trt you would be using a long ester, and would only have 1 weekly injection (2 tops).
Fair enough...still, I think I'm gonna wait on that.
 
hewhoisripped

hewhoisripped

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Fair enough...still, I think I'm gonna wait on that.
I'd say spend the 12-16 weeks it'll take you to see what a serm cycle does for you, then reevaluate your plans.
 
Buffspartan

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Isn't the clomid cycle only 60 days though? I wasn't planning on running it for 16 weeks, or should I?
 
hewhoisripped

hewhoisripped

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Isn't the clomid cycle only 60 days though? I wasn't planning on running it for 16 weeks, or should I?
no cycle is 4-6 weeks, but remember I said you need to give it at least 6 weeks perferrably 8 or more before you can really assess weather it helped to you in the long term. That is because your testosterone levels will be artificial e elevated while you're using clomid, and they can remain elevated for quite some time after you finish dosing. And less you plan on being on clomid permanently, what you really want to know is if it will bring your testosterone levels back up permanently or at least with very in frequent dosing.
 
Buffspartan

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no cycle is 4-6 weeks, but remember I said you need to give it at least 6 weeks perferrably 8 or more before you can really assess weather it helped to you in the long term. That is because your testosterone levels will be artificial e elevated while you're using clomid, and they can remain elevated for quite some time after you finish dosing. And less you plan on being on clomid permanently, what you really want to know is if it will bring your testosterone levels back up permanently or at least with very in frequent dosing.
From what I have read online, the boost tends to last roughly a year on average from clomid, so I was thinking I would follow it up with a badass natty stack indefinitely to keep the levels up, obviously taking a break once in a while, but for the most part indefinitely. This was the stack I was thinking of using
Viron x 1 cap
Endosurge Turbo x 6
Tribulus x 5
Ironmaglabs Anabolic Matrix RX x 4
Formeron x 2 pumps
 
hewhoisripped

hewhoisripped

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From what I have read online, the boost tends to last roughly a year on average from clomid, so I was thinking I would follow it up with a badass natty stack indefinitely to keep the levels up, obviously taking a break once in a while, but for the most part indefinitely. This was the stack I was thinking of using
Viron x 1 cap
Endosurge Turbo x 6
Tribulus x 5
Ironmaglabs Anabolic Matrix RX x 4
Formeron x 2 pumps
You have a clinical issue. the more variables you add in the harder it will be to know what works for you and what doesn't. I would run just the clomid and form and get bloodwork done 8 weeks after (and maybe as soon as you end, if you can afford it). test for total test, free test, shbg, estrogen and (if you can) DHT. I would then see where you go from there. Leave the natty stack for later (i.e. don't run it between the clomid and final bloodwork, if you want to get meaningful numbers).
 
Buffspartan

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You have a clinical issue. the more variables you add in the harder it will be to know what works for you and what doesn't. I would run just the clomid and form and get bloodwork done 8 weeks after (and maybe as soon as you end, if you can afford it). test for total test, free test, shbg, estrogen and (if you can) DHT. I would then see where you go from there. Leave the natty stack for later (i.e. don't run it between the clomid and final bloodwork, if you want to get meaningful numbers).
This will be the first time I've checked free test and estrogen. Yes, my docs have refused to check those! Shocking right? Oh and my DHEA levels are in the low end of normal to so I also take that with my current supps.
 
Peppers

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That's a good point. If you run the natty stack directly after clomid you won't know how much the clomid truly did for you. It would definately help with the gains, but it will alter your labs if the main goal is long term.

That's a nice ass natty stack tho, very libido friendly lol
 
Buffspartan

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That's a good point. If you run the natty stack directly after clomid you won't know how much the clomid truly did for you. It would definately help with the gains, but it will alter your labs if the main goal is long term.

That's a nice ass natty stack tho, very libido friendly lol
Oh yes, a very knowledgeable person on here suggested it. Most of the stuff on there I had never heard of, but once I had read up on it I noticed a lot tongkat ali in it which is a great, but expensive test and libido enhancer.
 

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Well, I can't post links because I have no posts on here, but google "the art of manliness" and look for the testosterone section. The author writes about how his T levels were low and what he did to boost them naturally. This article may look like nonsense, but it's a pretty good read and has a lot of truth to it. Try it out. Hope this helps...
 
Buffspartan

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Well, I can't post links because I have no posts on here, but google "the art of manliness" and look for the testosterone section. The author writes about how his T levels were low and what he did to boost them naturally. This article may look like nonsense, but it's a pretty good read and has a lot of truth to it. Try it out. Hope this helps...
I've read that article. Followed the diet for a while and did notice some subtle differences (libido, strength, energy, cognitive function), but nothing dramatic.
 

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