Newbie just needing guidance...

[Abadjiev]

So, I've been lurking the forums for a while and have been reading and researching, and I'm ready to take the step to do my first run ever.

Stats:
31
220lbs
5'11"
15%

I competed last year and was about 178 at around 8%. These lat six months, I've been just focused on gaining steadily, both in muscle mass and strength.

But now, I'm ready to make some more gains
Diet is in check again and I've dropped about 10lbs in the last 6wks. I'll continue to stick around maintenance +/- a 100-200kcals or so and add a couple compounds to kick this into action.



Here's what I'm looking at...
Please let me know if my head and research is in the right place.


Cycle:

Ep15stane (Olympus) : 30/45/45/45/45/45

Tr3st: 50/50/50/50/50/50
(Judging by feel, I may bump the last couple weeks up to 75.)

Ar1macare Pro : 4 a day


PCT:

Nolva: 20/20/10/10

DAA: 4/4/4/4

Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1



On hand and in use throughout when/if needed:

- Formeron
- Cissus
- Taurine
- BCAAs
- Creatine
- D3
- Vitamin C
- Zinc


All comments/questions/concerns are greatly appreciated and most welcome. I will be logging this on the forum to show any other potential newcomers some results from a first timer.

I have not ordered anything yet since I have not had this reviewed by the more experienced members, but will soon. And, of course, I won't start anything until every piece is in my possession.

Thanks.

 

[Jasontheman]

Is this your first PH cycle?

 

[Abadjiev]

Is this your first PH cycle?

Yes.

I've been back lifting about 7 years.

 

[Jasontheman]

Well epistane is usually a little harsh on 1st timers but maybe you could drop the TR3ST so if you have sides you know where they are coming from

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Looks perfect to me.

 

[Abadjiev]

Well epistane is usually a little harsh on 1st timers but maybe you could drop the TR3ST so if you have sides you know where they are coming from

What would be your personal recommendation then?

I picked the Epi because general consensus is the gains are dry, it doesn't aromatise, and is a solid compound for a newb. From what I've seen, the main sides are lethargy, low libido, and dry as ____ joints.
Which is why I added the test base. That's the reason I added the Tr3st.

But I see what you're saying about just running one compound on its own. I'm not trying to run some kitchen sink PH that I've been seeing ads all over for.

I do need assistance since I've never fkd with my hormones. Just wanna do it right.

 

[Abadjiev]

Looks perfect to me.

Thanks.

It was your advice and a couple other guys that really gave me some solid insight.

 

[Abadjiev]

Also, I was just reviewing nutriverse and the products and I was looking at Formeron...

Is that only an "in case" thing or should I prepare a dosing right from the start of a certain point?

Also, during PCT or no?

 

[Peppers]

I'll always lose dose an AI from start to finish.
Dosage will vary based on the compounds.
I'd use one from the start with Trest.

Just my preference, others will disagree.

I'd rather be safe.

 

[nakshe]

I recommend doing a Creatine Load the first week of your cycle to maximize gains, maintain at 10-15 grams until the first week of PCT, then load again to help keep your gains/strength.

I highly recommend low-cal Gatorade post workout, drinking at least 2 gallons a day (piss should be clear all day), and drinking extra pickle juice (great, cheap source of electrolytes) if you need it. Beta-Alanine can help too. So does HMB apparently, but I didn't really notice any difference the time I used it. Once agian, make sure you're serious about hydration or don't do this. Doing the PH's is hard enough on your body.

Edit: You have BCAAs as well. I've never noticed anything from them, but they can't hurt I imagine. If money is an issue I'd use them during PCT to help maintain gains. You won't have any problems making gains while on cycle.

 

[Peppers]

I run creatine 365.

 

[nakshe]

I run creatine 365.

Definitely a good thing to do if you have the money. I cycle it because I notice its effect diminishes the longer I stay on it and I don't have unlimited money to spend on supps. Def one of the most cost effective supps there is though. Mono is dirt cheap and works every time.

 

[stann123]

Definitely a good thing to do if you have the money. I cycle it because I notice its effect diminishes the longer I stay on it and I don't have unlimited money to spend on supps. Def one of the most cost effective supps there is though. Mono is dirt cheap and works every time.

$20 for a years supply, everyone can afford that. There are also no studies done showing that cycling creatine is necessary. Im going to assume its a placebo

 

[Peppers]

Creatine is definitely the best bang for your buck as far as supps go. Mono is pretty cheap, $20 can get you a couple hundred servings lol

 

[nakshe]

$20 for a years supply, everyone can afford that. There are also no studies done showing that cycling creatine is necessary. Im going to assume its a placebo

Where are you buying creatine that you get a year supply for $20? I go through about 300 grams during a load week, so I use a lot more.

Science is a great foundation for supplement use, however in any individual pursuit you have to go by what works for you and not what works for a statistical majority of the population. I've used the standard 10-15 grams a day with creatine taking around workouts for a long time and noticed absolutely nothing. The first time I did a load, I started getting 1-3 more reps and went up about 5% on all lifts towards the end of the week (the peak of the loading phase). I know this works for me, so that's what I do.

Odds are most people can get results using the standard dosing, that's good for them.

 

[Peppers]

They say 5G is all you need, however I run about 10 a day myself. It's so cheap, **** it. Lol

I pay like 15$ for 200 servings I think of mono.
I haven't bought it in forever, 2 cans goes awhile.

 

[stann123]

Where are you buying creatine that you get a year supply for $20? I go through about 300 grams during a load week, so I use a lot more.

Science is a great foundation for supplement use, however in any individual pursuit you have to go by what works for you and not what works for a statistical majority of the population. I've used the standard 10-15 grams a day with creatine taking around workouts for a long time and noticed absolutely nothing. The first time I did a load, I started getting 1-3 more reps and went up about 5% on all lifts towards the end of the week (the peak of the loading phase). I know this works for me, so that's what I do.

Odds are most people can get results using the standard dosing, that's good for them.

Standard dosing is 5g e/d, and loading is optional. I wasn't aware you took 15g a day, in that case ya it wouldn't be $20 for a years supply

 

[nakshe]

Standard dosing is 5g e/d, and loading is optional. I wasn't aware you took 15g a day, in that case ya it wouldn't be $20 for a years supply

Lol yeah, that's why I cycle off. I just can't afford to maintain at 15 grams a day. Plus it drys the **** out of you and I live in Texas. In summer it can get pretty bad. I worked the last 2 summers at a gym with no A/C. Among other reasons why I quit that job lol. There's no winning no matter how much water you drink a day.

 

[snyderd1972]

So, I've been lurking the forums for a while and have been reading and researching, and I'm ready to take the step to do my first run ever. Stats: 31 220lbs 5'11" 15% I competed last year and was about 178 at around 8%. These lat six months, I've been just focused on gaining steadily, both in muscle mass and strength. But now, I'm ready to make some more gains Diet is in check again and I've dropped about 10lbs in the last 6wks. I'll continue to stick around maintenance +/- a 100-200kcals or so and add a couple compounds to kick this into action. Here's what I'm looking at... Please let me know if my head and research is in the right place. Cycle: Ep15stane (Olympus) : 30/45/45/45/45/45 Tr3st: 50/50/50/50/50/50 (Judging by feel, I may bump the last couple weeks up to 75.) Ar1macare Pro : 4 a day PCT: Nolva: 20/20/10/10 DAA: 4/4/4/4 Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1 On hand and in use throughout when/if needed: - Formeron - Cissus - Taurine - BCAAs - Creatine - D3 - Vitamin C - Zinc All comments/questions/concerns are greatly appreciated and most welcome. I will be logging this on the forum to show any other potential newcomers some results from a first timer. I have not ordered anything yet since I have not had this reviewed by the more experienced members, but will soon. And, of course, I won't start anything until every piece is in my possession. Thanks.

This is all my opinion and experience;
Drop the cissus does nothing for you joints on cycle.
Save the creative for pct.
Pick up some dermacrine run it throughout your epi cycle.
Pick up some stano lgi makes a great product use this instead of trest.
The taurine will be a must have I take 5 grams daily on cycle like clockwork.
I'm not sure if the arimacare is an ai if it is drop it you don't need it.
Your pct looks good only thing I do different is torem and I would use the former on during pct instead of on cycle.

All just my opinion but I do have 15+ cycles under my belt over the last 11 years and have followed this protocol and have had very productive and comfortable cycles.

 

[snyderd1972]

This is all my opinion and experience; Drop the cissus does nothing for you joints on cycle. Save the creative for pct. Pick up some dermacrine run it throughout your epi cycle. Pick up some stano lgi makes a great product use this instead of trest. The taurine will be a must have I take 5 grams daily on cycle like clockwork. I'm not sure if the arimacare is an ai if it is drop it you don't need it. Your pct looks good only thing I do different is torem and I would use the former on during pct instead of on cycle. All just my opinion but I do have 15+ cycles under my belt over the last 11 years and have followed this protocol and have had very productive and comfortable cycles.

You need a cycle assist/support supplement on cycle also. I use cel cycle assist and have also recently added aegis.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

You need a cycle assist/support supplement on cycle also. I use cel cycle assist and have also recently added aegis.

AR1MACARE PRO is an all-in-one cycle support that has TUDCA in it (the active ingredient in Aegis).

And TR3ST blows Stano out of the water.

 

[Abadjiev]

I run creatine all year. I get BOGO from Vitamin World and it turns into 1,000g for like $14. No need to load or cycle it. My body produces atp and creatine has clinical studies to justify its use in that regard, so that's a no brainer.


Does anyone else feel Stano > Tr3st?
I'm open here.

Since cissus has just been claimed ineffective a few posts above, what does anyone suggest for the dry/sore joints on cycle? One of the main sides I read on Epi is the joint pain.

 

[Peppers]

I use cissus and it works.

Trest is better than Stano.

However Trest aromatizes so an AI is a must for me.

Stano will work fine for you and it's cheap.

Epi 40 for 6 weeks
Stano 600/600/800/800/1000/1000

Could go 2 extra weeks with stano in the start or finish for 8 weeks of it.

 

[stann123]

I run creatine all year. I get BOGO from Vitamin World and it turns into 1,000g for like $14. No need to load or cycle it. My body produces atp and creatine has clinical studies to justify its use in that regard, so that's a no brainer.


Does anyone else feel Stano > Tr3st?
I'm open here.

Since cissus has just been claimed ineffective a few posts above, what does anyone suggest for the dry/sore joints on cycle? One of the main sides I read on Epi is the joint pain.

Im a fan of animal flex. CL orange triad is good aswell

 

[Abadjiev]

I use cissus and it works.

Trest is better than Stano.

However Trest aromatizes so an AI is a must for me.

Stano will work fine for you and it's cheap.

Epi 40 for 6 weeks
Stano 600/600/800/800/1000/1000

Could go 2 extra weeks with stano in the start or finish for 8 weeks of it.

So, Stano does not aromatise?

And the AI is a must regardless. I prefer not to have tits

I think I'm gonna stick to 6wks the first run. Get my feet wet a bit before I start going all out.

 

[Abadjiev]

Im a fan of animal flex. CL orange triad is good aswell

I already use OT. It's always on my shelf.

Also, I have straight up Glucosamine Controidant.

 

[Peppers]

Nope for Stano, non methyl as we'll.

Epi / Stano is a good 1st cycle.

 

[Abadjiev]

Nope for Stano, non methyl as we'll.

Epi / Stano is a good 1st cycle.

That sounds $$$ then.

Now, since neither compound aromatise, will I keep that AI on hand only for PCT or is that through the cycle as well? Or, is it through both cycle and PCT?

 

[Peppers]

I will always low dose an AI on cycle just to be safe.

But there really shouldn't be any need for it on this cycle.

What's your bf% at?

The higher it is, the more likely sides occur.

If you don't use one, at least have it on hand always.

Always use an AI in pct though.

 

[Abadjiev]

I will always low dose an AI on cycle just to be safe.

But there really shouldn't be any need for it on this cycle.

What's your bf% at?

The higher it is, the more likely sides occur.

If you don't use one, at least have it on hand always.

Always use an AI in pct though.

About 15%.

I will certainly have one on hand and will probably just take your suggestion and run 2 pumps a day throughout.

Much obliged, brother.

 

[Peppers]

If you get to dry, lay off of it. Even 1-2 pumps EOD or E3D would work fine.

Better safe than sorry IMO

 

[nakshe]

I will always low dose an AI on cycle just to be safe.

But there really shouldn't be any need for it on this cycle.

What's your bf% at?

The higher it is, the more likely sides occur.

If you don't use one, at least have it on hand always.

Always use an AI in pct though.

I don't know if you read further up in the the thread, but I had an argument about it being beneficial to start a cycle at a lower bf%. THANK YOU! That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Starting at a lower bodyfat percentage is all around a better way to go than just saying "it doesn't matter because he's a powerlifter".

 

[Peppers]

Starting at a higher bf% will put you at more risk for sides and in plain terms, it makes it easier to catch gyno.

That's why I asked and it would make a difference in AI dosing IMO.

Most people wouldn't need an AI, but myself ran a dry cycle, no AI and got gyno.

So now, I will always run an AI on any cycle, dosages will vary on my bf% and cycle.

 

[Abadjiev]

I don't know if you read further up in the the thread, but I had an argument about it being beneficial to start a cycle at a lower bf%. THANK YOU! That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Starting at a lower bodyfat percentage is all around a better way to go than just saying "it doesn't matter because he's a powerlifter".

By the time I get everything in hand, I'll be down another 6-8lbs. I'm running a caloric deficit as we speak and I keep tight macros when cutting.

I intend to be down near the 210 mark by the time this cycle begins. It'll be another month from now. I'm placing orders tomorrow to start setting all this stuff up on the shelf. I've waited this long to try. I'm in no rush.

Thanks for the input, man.

 

[snyderd1972]

Gyno is not the only exasperated by cycling with a higher body fat %. Cholesterol, bp to name a few cycle support will help keep these in check but won't eliminate them. Not trying to scare you from cycling a lot of these members have come to what they believe is there "perfect" cycle through trial and error this being your first cycle you don't have any baseline for how your body will react. This thread is giving you a place to start and a ton of good advice. Good luck let us know how it goes.

 

[Abadjiev]

New Setup after input from everyone...


Cycle:

Epi:
45/45/45/45/45/45

Stano:
600/600/800/800/1000/1000

Formeron as needed...maybe 1-2 pumps EOD
(Just to be safe)

Ar1macare: 4 a day


Pct:

Nolva: 20/20/10/10

Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1

DAA: 4/4/4/4

Formeron: as need...maybe 1-2 a day to be sure.


All normal supps and vitamins being taken.

Good to go?

 

[Abadjiev]

Gyno is not the only exasperated by cycling with a higher body fat %. Cholesterol, bp to name a few cycle support will help keep these in check but won't eliminate them. Not trying to scare you from cycling a lot of these members have come to what they believe is there "perfect" cycle through trial and error this being your first cycle you don't have any baseline for how your body will react. This thread is giving you a place to start and a ton of good advice. Good luck let us know how it goes.

I'm going to log. I hope a couple people stop by to check it out. I appreciate the input, brother. I know that the body is no textbook, so we never know. Just trying to become as informed as possible before putting anything in my body.

All health is good to go. BP, Cholesterol, and normal physiology/bloodwork is normal. I'm in great general health.

I'm a strength athlete, but I'm certainly not a fat slob, nor do I have a desire to be lol.

 

[Peppers]

Gyno is not the only exasperated by cycling with a higher body fat %. Cholesterol, bp to name a few cycle support will help keep these in check but won't eliminate them. Not trying to scare you from cycling a lot of these members have come to what they believe is there "perfect" cycle through trial and error this being your first cycle you don't have any baseline for how your body will react. This thread is giving you a place to start and a ton of good advice. Good luck let us know how it goes.

Agreed, we'll said.

 

[Peppers]

New Setup after input from everyone... Cycle: Epi: 45/45/45/45/45/45 Stano: 600/600/800/800/1000/1000 Formeron as needed...maybe 1-2 pumps EOD (Just to be safe) Ar1macare: 4 a day Pct: Nolva: 20/20/10/10 Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/1 DAA: 4/4/4/4 Formeron: as need...maybe 1-2 a day to be sure. All normal supps and vitamins being taken. Good to go?

Looks Legit..

Keep us posted..

 

[snyderd1972]

I'm going to log. I hope a couple people stop by to check it out. I appreciate the input, brother. I know that the body is no textbook, so we never know. Just trying to become as informed as possible before putting anything in my body. All health is good to go. BP, Cholesterol, and normal physiology/bloodwork is normal. I'm in great general health. I'm a strength athlete, but I'm certainly not a fat slob, nor do I have a desire to be lol.

I think you will enjoy it epi kicks in quick for me and strength gains are nice and constant. Like I said good luck and I'll definitely follow along.

 

[Olympus Labs]

I'd still go with TR3ST. Overall you'd enjoy the cycle a lot more. Problem with first time users is they don't do the research that you have done and can not handle the sides, but it looks as if you have. Running 50mg of TR3ST will be a lot better than running 800mg-1g of stano.

 

[Jiigzz]

Where are you buying creatine that you get a year supply for $20? I go through about 300 grams during a load week, so I use a lot more.

Science is a great foundation for supplement use, however in any individual pursuit you have to go by what works for you and not what works for a statistical majority of the population. I've used the standard 10-15 grams a day with creatine taking around workouts for a long time and noticed absolutely nothing. The first time I did a load, I started getting 1-3 more reps and went up about 5% on all lifts towards the end of the week (the peak of the loading phase). I know this works for me, so that's what I do.

Odds are most people can get results using the standard dosing, that's good for them.

Here brother: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/creatine-monohydrate-1200-grams.html

 

[nakshe]

I'd still go with TR3ST. Overall you'd enjoy the cycle a lot more. Problem with first time users is they don't do the research that you have done and can not handle the sides, but it looks as if you have. Running 50mg of TR3ST will be a lot better than running 800mg-1g of stano.

Still kicking myself for not getting TR3ST for my next cycle, I went with Epiandro. Heard good things about both, but TR3ST is leading the positive reviews by far. Definitely using it 2 cycles from now.

 

[Abadjiev]

So, order is placed for all cycle components and pct.

Epi/Stano it is for this first run.
I decided that I would save any aromatising compounds for after I gain an understanding to how my body handles hormone manipulation.

I'm thinking I'm going to run the Stano a week earlier than the Epi and preload the cycle with 600 Stano that first week and walk right into week 1 of Epi at 45. I'm hoping this combats the lethargy sides of Epi quite well.

Either way, I'll just take some Man-The-Eff-Up and be fine regardless I can handle a little tiredness...I have kids, I know just what that feels like.

Thanks gents.

Is the Cycle Info section the best place to put a log, or just in the general portion of the anabolic section?

 

[Peppers]

Cycle section.

Good Move with the stano, it should help out a bit.

 

[funkd0c]

Epi/Stano it is for this first run. I decided that I would save any aromatising compounds for after I gain an understanding to how my body handles hormone manipulation.

This^ is exactly how I felt when I did my first cycle. When you don't know what exogenous hormones feel like, the idea of an aromatizing compound and all that can come with that is a very daunting thought.

Stano was a part of my first cycle. It was ok, I started my dose too low but your dosing looks right. Although, with what I know now, I will always choose trest over stano. It's best to understand what each compound feels like IMO. You'll be better off for it in your future cycles. Which will probably be more potent

 

[Abadjiev]

This^ is exactly how I felt when I did my first cycle. When you don't know what exogenous hormones feel like, the idea of an aromatizing compound and all that can come with that is a very daunting thought.

Stano was a part of my first cycle. It was ok, I started my dose too low but your dosing looks right. Although, with what I know now, I will always choose trest over stano. It's best to understand what each compound feels like IMO. You'll be better off for it in your future cycles. Which will probably be more potent

Yeah, I had gyno as a teen and had a little carryover into adulthood. Training and learning dietary parameters has helped keep it virtually unnoticeable when I'm lean, but there's always that thought in the back of my brain.

Next time, maybe swing for the fences a bit

Thanks, man.

 

[finloopio]

I'd still go with TR3ST. Overall you'd enjoy the cycle a lot more. Problem with first time users is they don't do the research that you have done and can not handle the sides, but it looks as if you have. Running 50mg of TR3ST will be a lot better than running 800mg-1g of stano.

^^ This. I've heard TR3ST blows stano out of the water. I'm running an epi/TR3ST cycle later this month and I can hardly wait. Heard the stuff is amazing as a base.

 

[Abadjiev]

So, I've got everything in hand...


Quick question on the dosage.
Since I'm running Stano a week early to get a leg up on any potential lethargy, when should I dose it?

Will it be like the Epi where I split the dosages evenly through the day, or is it ok to just take them in the morning around 9/930 which is 2hrs before training? Or, do I take it closer to training?

Other than this, Im ready to roll. Day 1 is today

 

[Peppers]

Breakfast, lunch, dinner, or pre workout.

I'd split dosages up evenly throughout the day for Epi / Stano.