PA in the news...again

size

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Pogue posted this over at bb.com.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/search/search_results.htm?pubName=mercurynews&orderBy=date&pageStart=1&sitesToSearch=mercurynews,realcities&pageSize=10&fieldsToSearch=HEADLINE,FORSEARCH,LEAD,BYLINE&queryType=all&searchSelect=article&query=dmt
Canadian lab found to make drug similar to BALCO steroid
By ELLIOTT ALMOND and SEAN WEBBY

San Jose Mercury News

SAN JOSE, Calif. - Authorities have discovered similarities between a new designer steroid confiscated in Canada and the drug at the heart of the BALCO Laboratories scandal, leading one drug-testing expert to say that they were produced by the same laboratory.

Two sources familiar with the BALCO investigation told the San Jose Mercury News the confiscated steroid - desoxy-methyl testosterone, or DMT - was found in packaging similar to that of THG.

And on the day the identification of the drug was made public, authorities said it had chemical similarities to THG, the BALCO designer steroid.

"It is coming from the same source," said Christiane Ayotte, who helped identify DMT at the Montreal drug-testing laboratory she directs.

Two sources told the Mercury News, on condition of anonymity, that the evidence suggests the person was Patrick Arnold, an Illinois chemist. He is known as the creator of "prohormones," the steroid precursors such as androstenedione that were banned last month by the federal government.

Arnold declined comment Friday when asked whether he had anything to do with the new drug or with THG. He has not been charged with any crime.

U.S. federal investigators say BALCO founder Victor Conte Jr. claims Arnold supplied him with THG. U.S. drug testers have said Arnold introduced the first designer steroid - norbolethone - to athletes in the 1990s.

The discovery of the new drug, which the World Anti-Doping Agency made public last week, is a reminder that even as the BALCO case progresses and baseball tightens its steroid policies, underground manufacturers continue to make new drugs that elude detection.

Officials suspect DMT was meant to be the next generation of THG, which was discovered in 2003 after track coach Trevor Graham gave drug testers a syringe with traces of the substance. DMT is not believed to have been used by any athletes.

Authorities found DMT in December 2003, when they arrested Canadian sprinter Derek Dueck trying to cross the border with a vial of the drug. Dueck also had a vial of THG and 70 vials of human growth hormone, a Canada Border Services Agency spokesman said Friday.

By the time the Canadians caught Dueck, American officials already had discovered THG, a steroid designed to break up during drug testing. Four Oakland Raiders and five track and field athletes tested positive for THG in 2003.

According to the two sources, an important link between the new steroid and Arnold is a handwritten label on the bottle of DMT, which reads "New Stuff." One source said the handwriting looked similar to Arnold's on material connected to BALCO. Both sources said Arnold called the creations with which they were familiar "Stuff."

Among the evidence U.S. agents collected in the BALCO investigation are references to "Tren stuff" and "T stuff," thought to be names for THG. Tren refers to the steroid trenbolone.

Conte called THG "the clear." According to a document obtained by the Mercury News, Conte wrote an e-mail to a Greek coach in August 2002, referring to Arnold as "the clearman."

The two sources said the packages Canadian customs officials confiscated resembled those collected as evidence in the BALCO case.

Ayotte said the white plastic bottle with the label "New Stuff" looked "exactly" like one she had previously examined containing norbolethone.

There is only one norbolethone case on record: Cyclist Tammy Thomas was banned in 2002 for testing positive. Officials said Arnold was the source.

Thomas, called before the grand jury investigating BALCO, said prosecutors asked her about Arnold, whom she said she did not know.

In 2002, Arnold told the Washington Post that he might have made norbolethone.

Drug-testing authorities are constantly searching for new drugs. A U.S. Anti-Doping Agency official recently was in Raleigh, N.C., asking about one, according to a person who was questioned.

"We know some others are being used," Ayotte said. "I have one in front of me right now. We are trying to prove what it is."

Ayotte said she believes at least one drug maker is researching old studies and using them as models for new steroids. DMT, she said, could be found in scientific literature from the 1960s.

American drug testers have known about DMT for the past year, Ayotte said. Although they could test for it, they did not announce it in hopes of catching athletes using it.

Ayotte said she wanted to make DMT's existence public to warn athletes against using something potentially dangerous.

"The athletes must be protected from this," she said.
 

LCSULLA

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"The athletes must be protected from this," she said.
Will it ever end..."Sigh" The WADA is the biggest bunch of facists around. Most of these elite athletes are under constent medical care when they are on this stuff. I rember Animal saying that people like Lance Armstrong have access to drugs we have never even heard of. And it seems he was right. Plus the designers of these new compounds moniter the athletes very closely. It's not like Joe Blow is taking these things (at least not yet). And things have not gotten too crazy yet. But the WADA is IMO causing these athletes to get even more and more radical. Most experts agree that by the 2008 Olympics there will gene enginered athletes in the Games. Whats next various animal DNA spliced on to a human? Or cybernetic parts ala I'Robot?
 
UHCougar05

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Well, it seems as if they already have the hammer and the nails for the cross and now they're just looking for lumber...Now it just looks as if Conte is ratting on everyone else to save his ass (which is smart, albeit unpopular, in his case.) It'll be interesting to see how all of this pans out.

Sucks to be PA at this point...looks like they're attacking him from all directions and he could end up an excremental tributary without sufficient means of locomotion.

Did anyone else get a chuckle out of the final line that said "The athletes must be protected from this"?
 
sirpsycho

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LOL, that last line is humorous. Thank you for protecting us. LOL

I love how they protect the public from drugs and supplements that
are used for physical enhancement, but continue to allow us to use
alcohol and tobacco, which destroys our bodies and causes death
from a number of ways. Can someone scream hypocrisy!!! :frustrate
 

diminuendo

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Give up your rights now so your friendly government can protect you from yourself. Sickening......I'm going to go buy som Ergopharm products in protest...Dim
 
CEDeoudes59

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the government needs to take my car away - to protect me too.

I'm sure PA is one step ahead
but what a world we live in.
 
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CEDeoudes59

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In 2002, Arnold told the Washington Post that he might have made norbolethone.[/COLOR]
haha, Pat wasn't sure...
 
Alpha Dog

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Probably a dumb question, but was manufacturing these really illegal? Kinda like manufacturing 1-Test, which was not a precursor (it was an active anabolic without conversion) but was not on any list as being "illegal" until this year.

Seems to me he may have a pretty good case.
 
BodyWizard

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"The Brave New World(tm) / BigPharma must be protected from this," she said.
There - I fixed that for you....
 

diminuendo

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The media does not care about the legality of it. All they care about is selling their gloom and doom to the snivelling, grovelling fools who don't realize that they are being spoon-fed their own brains. Accuracy has no place in the media, but that is because the average purveyor of information does not demand accuracy from their source...Dim
 

size

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I find it interesting that pa's name has been linked to both thg and now dmt. in fact, his name was included in the IRS memorandum associated with balco.
 
Alpha Dog

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The media does not care about the legality of it. All they care about is selling their gloom and doom to the snivelling, grovelling fools who don't realize that they are being spoon-fed their own brains. Accuracy has no place in the media, but that is because the average purveyor of information does not demand accuracy from their source...Dim
Prosecuting Attorney: “Did you or did you not manufacture the chemicals in question which have been forced down these unsuspecting athletes throats, the same chemicals which have ruined sport, lead to countless fatality’s and deformed children and as such killed the ratings of televised athletics?�

PA: “Umm, but your Honor, Mr. Prosecuting Attorney, please show me where it states that any of these compounds in question are illegal to manufacture? While you are digging that up, don’t mind me while I return this call to Barry…..�



in fact, his name was included in the IRS memorandum associated with balco.
Now, if he didn’t pay taxes on the sale to Balco, then its another story. Anyone remember how they took down Capone.
 

chasec

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somebody got it right above. the media won't stop till they crucify the source of this and make there readers feel all warm and fuzzy inside. either that or wacko-jacko will occupy them for a bit.
 
jmh80

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Has anyone looked to see if this DMT is in Julius Vida's book yet?

I'd venture to say that there are hundreds of compounds out there in the literature that were studied in the 40's, 50's, & 60's but for some reason or another were never brought to market. This game will always be played, but the chemists will stay one step ahead.
 
CEDeoudes59

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two steps ahead :thumbsup:
 
jmh80

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Deoudes - rep The U. Love the pic of DMorgan. Where'd ya get it?
 
wojo

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lol pa wouldnt sell a 1-test supp but hes accused of making these others? am i the only one that finds this ironic?
 
CEDeoudes59

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Deoudes - rep The U. Love the pic of DMorgan. Where'd ya get it?
just google ---> images ---> Dan Morgan
usually where I find all these pictures - like the batman and robin one climbing that building in Gotham City :hammer:
 
CEDeoudes59

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lol pa wouldnt sell a 1-test supp but hes accused of making these others? am i the only one that finds this ironic?
he's got all sorts of goodies we'll never see. He wouldn't sell methylated products because he knew it would/could lead to big trouble. He was right, M1T is rat poison (little do the BB.comers know).
I know a fair amount of people dislike him or think he has a huge ego. But I have to respect the guy - from what I know and my brief dealings with him.
 
jmh80

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Naw, that's the best pic you've had up.

I remember his article that initially mentioned M1T. It had good and bad hormones he listed. There were a few that have not been released. He had found them in the literature. It made me wonder if he had tried any of them. Obviously so.
 

size

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pa wouldnt sell a 1-test supp but hes accused of making these others? am i the only one that finds this ironic?
No, you are not. I find it odd how so few seem to recognize it though.

He wouldn't sell methylated products because he knew it would/could lead to big trouble. He was right, M1T is rat poison
Methylated products would lead to trouble but THG would not???
 

Boss_K

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methyl products were to be sold to the public....he sold thg to balco, which was another company....less user-end liability.
 
wojo

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No, you are not. I find it odd how so few seem to recognize it though.



Methylated products would lead to trouble but THG would not???
thank god u saw it too i thoguth i was going nucking futs..also what a hypocrite he jumped all over llewellyn's ass
 
CEDeoudes59

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Methylated products would lead to trouble but THG would not???
I don't think he ever planned to distribute THG to the public... otherwise it would certainly would be trouble. :hammer:
 
CEDeoudes59

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methyl products were to be sold to the public....he sold thg to balco, which was another company....less user-end liability.

right.
imagine if the kids at BB.com got ahold of THG :blink:
 

size

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So according to this line of thought, methylated products for the willing and paying consumer is worse than drugs made to deceive and cheat in professional and international athletic competitions? Due to media hype and mass ignorance on the topic of AAS, I believe the deception/cheating aspect is far more damaging for the supplement industry.
 
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CEDeoudes59

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Good point.
you're correct on that. especially now, the baseball player died 'from Epherda' they pulled it off the market. Mark McGwire increased andro sales, and it was the first PH to hit the ban list.
I guess PA just didn't want lawsuits from the kids at BB.com
 

KCPreki11

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So according to this line of thought, methylated products for the willing and paying consumer is worse than drugs made to deceive and cheat in professional and international athletic competitions? Due to media hype and mass ignorance on the topic of AAS, I believe the deception/cheating aspect is far more damaging for the supplement industry.
Although we'll never know, what would have made PA more money, releasing methyls to the public or this underground distribution of THG, DMT, etc...
 

diminuendo

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So according to this line of thought, methylated products for the willing and paying consumer is worse than drugs made to deceive and cheat in professional and international athletic competitions? Due to media hype and mass ignorance on the topic of AAS, I believe the deception/cheating aspect is far more damaging for the supplement industry.
I respectfully disagree. First of all using steroidal enhancement is not cheating in a field where many if not most are in the same boat. If you think that steroids (just the tip of the iceburg) have not fully permiated all layers of sports, pro and amateur, then you have not been paying attention. Look at the rate at which reccords have been broken in the last 5-10 years vs. say between 1960-1970. Do you honestly think that evolution just kicked back in and started cranking out super athletes, or that the internet is making sports easier. Compare Tour de France times this past year with those from the 80's. Is it possible that those reductions in time are due to wind tunnel testing and alloys. Is it really possible that Lance is all natural, or your favorite college quarterback...Hell no. By the way, I am not taking anything away from their feats. I just don't see the big deal. If they (athletes) want to risk their health for money they are free to do so, I don't see a gun to anyone's head, besides isn't that what sports like football, boxing, rugby, UFC are about?

And as far as PA giving grief to those distributing methylated hormones while manufacturing (if he did) THG and DMT there is a tremendous difference. A drug dealer who deals drugs to responsible adults who can afford their habit, is hardly the same as the neighborhood crack dealer pedaling his wares to children (think BB.com)who are not mature enough to handle decisions like introducing chemicals into their young systems. Don't you agree?
 
sirpsycho

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And as far as PA giving grief to those distributing methylated hormones while manufacturing (if he did) THG and DMT there is a tremendous difference. A drug dealer who deals drugs to responsible adults who can afford their habit, is hardly the same as the neighborhood crack dealer pedaling his wares to children (think BB.com)who are not mature enough to handle decisions like introducing chemicals into their young systems. Don't you agree?
I for one agree with you on this, but I would think that the government and law enforcement would call that splitting hairs.
 

size

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Methylated hormones = crack. Such a parallel does not work in my mind. The people who bash M1T are the same ones who were eating it up months ago.
PA is a smart man who has an abundance of information. Whether or not he was directly related to THG and/or DMT still is not evident. However, if he was, how can individuals continue to defend his positions?
 

diminuendo

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I don't know him nor do I give a damn about him (PA). I do, however see a difference between providing (or being in favor thereof) an athlete--who is much more inclined to know about his/her body, and recieve proper medical supervision--with performance enhancing and providing them to 19 year old "children" who wanna get swole bro. I concede that my analogy was flawed so here is a new one, flaw remedied:

Selling cocaine to adult proffessionals. Selling cocaine to middle-school kids.
Same moral/ethical weight? That is my basis for saying his position is logicaly sound. You can't lump all drug/steroid dealers into one dealer category, black and white is hard to find in this world...Dim
 

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yeah i think there is a huge difference..

its like selling winstrol to a kid or winstrol to an pro/elite athlete.


I don't know him nor do I give a damn about him (PA). I do, however see a difference between providing (or being in favor thereof) an athlete--who is much more inclined to know about his/her body, and recieve proper medical supervision--with performance enhancing and providing them to 19 year old "children" who wanna get swole bro. I concede that my analogy was flawed so here is a new one, flaw remedied:

Selling cocaine to adult proffessionals. Selling cocaine to middle-school kids.
Same moral/ethical weight? That is my basis for saying his position is logicaly sound. You can't lump all drug/steroid dealers into one dealer category, black and white is hard to find in this world...Dim
 

ersatz

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yeah i think there is a huge difference..

its like selling winstrol to a kid or winstrol to an pro/elite athlete.
I don't know if that's a good analogy in this case. Though both are questionable ethically, at least selling to the public is or at least was not illegal. Being involved in a conspiracy to help athletes cheat is another story.
 

diminuendo

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The drugs he was selling to athletes were not illegal. Define cheating.
 

ersatz

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The drugs he was selling to athletes were not illegal. Define cheating.
Well PA didn't sell directly to athletes he just allegedly manufactured it and sold it to Conte. PA could be charged with what Conte was indiced for: conspiracy to possess and distribute anabolic steroids. So apparently they consider it illegal though it'll probably be open for debate. AS for the cheating, apparently it's not a crime to bypass sports organizations' laws/rules so I guess it's a moot point.
 

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doooood.

he cannot be charged with what you say because THG was not a SCHEDULED DRUG

it wasn't illegal. hope that helps
 

ersatz

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doooood.

he cannot be charged with what you say because THG was not a SCHEDULED DRUG

it wasn't illegal. hope that helps
The drug may not have specificly been scheduled but that hardly means it is legal. I believe that the US Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA) required that a product be naturally occurring(in the food supply?) and could not have been previously pursued as a pharmaceutical product. A FDA statement(http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00967.html) states "Although purveyors of THG may represent it as a dietary supplement, in fact it does not meet the dietary supplement definition. Rather, it is a purely synthetic 'designer' steroid derived by simple chemical modification...". Now, PA didn't sell it as a supplement and was likely not aware of its intended use so he may be in the clear(no pun intended). The chemical synthesis of THG was designed to escape detection since the compound degrades during standard gas chromatography and mass spectrometry procedures so perhaps other charges could be filed, who knows. If the DEA really has it out for him they will figure something out. Balco was supposedly selling it as a food supp
and thus the steroid conspiracy charges.


I did find a synthesis for it for those curious. A mixture of gestrinone (100 mg, 0.324 mmol) and palladium on activated carbon (10% wt) (11 mg) in dichloromethane (50 ml) was stirred under H2 (1 atmosphere) at room temperature for approximatively 60 min. The reaction was monitored by proton nuclear magnetic resonance (1H NMR). The mixture was filtered through a Celite pad and washed several times with dichloromethane. Solvent was removed by evaporation. The crude product was purified by flash chromatography on silica gel (hexanes-ethyl acetate/9–1 to hexanes-ethyl acetate/8–2) and by flash chromatography on reverse phase gel (C18) (CH3CN-MeOH-H2O/10–50–50 to CH3CN-MeOH-H2O/30–30–30) to give the desired product (THG) as a yellow foam (47 mg, 47% yield, 98.9% chemical purity by HPLC).
 
jmh80

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erstaz - they do have a rule that it be considered safe, or grandfathered by having been introduced before '94. Still yet, THG was legal until the Steroid Control Act of 04. Otherwise, we'd be talking about CEE, 7-OH-diprop, etc ALL being illegal.

I find the synthesis to be very similar to hydrogenation reactions. Palladium is a very common catalyst for that rxn. But, this indicates the relative dollar amount PA or whomever synthesized it was working with. Palladium is over $250 an oz!!! He likely would have needed at least a lb or so of it, but I figure more due to the amount of THG he was likely making (based on the number of athletes testing positive/admitting) and the relative low yield.
 

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