Cycle Help Needed

[RockyRambo]

Hi,

I am 5'10'' at 168 lbs. I did a "half-ass / screwed up" cycle of Test E and ended it in Dec 2013. The cycle looked like this 250,250,500,500,500,250. I didn't have much time so did this kind of a cycle. My bf % right now is around 20%.
My goal is to gain 8-10 kgs of lean muscle mass with bf % in the range that my abs are visible (could be 9-10%?). I am thinking to target it by the first week of Oct 2014. My plan is to follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (Mon through Fri 70% fat, 30% protein, negligible carbs < 20 gm and then Sat and Sun - eat anything and everything) for 3 months - Apr, May and June to cut back to 14%. Then, I am thinking to do a 8 week bulking up cycle followed by a 4 week pct by the end of September. However, I am having quite a lot of questions about it:

1. If I think of cutting for 3 months, should I use T3, clen, etc right now to get faster results?
2. When I think of bulking up with an 8 week cycle, my calorie intake has to be quite above my AMR, say, 3500, which effectively means, that I will gain fat as well and some bloating even if I use an AI (given, I use compounds such as Test E, Sustanon, etc.). Also, I can't think of cutting during pct or even 1-2 months after it. So, I will be only bulked up by Oct but not at the desirable fat %age.
3. Hence, is there a way, I can think of bulking and cutting in the same cycle? I don't think so I should start with a bulking cycle right now because I want to wait for 5-6 months after I ended my last cycle in Dec 2013.
4. What should I do? Also, what compounds should I use to achieve my goals?

 

[Mystere3]

If you run t3/clen without AAS you're going to catabolize a bunch of muscle. I'd just cut naturally for a bit.

 

[RockyRambo]

If you run t3/clen without AAS you're going to catabolize a bunch of muscle. I'd just cut naturally for a bit.

Ok..Thanks for the reply..so, they must be used in cutting AAS cycles only? AAS for holding on to the muscle mass and T3/ Clen for decreasing the fat %age? Which also means, the calorie intake must be lesser than that of the AMR. Hence, a cutting AAS cycle must be separated from a bulking AAS cycle. Hence, the only option I have is to do a bulking cycle and then wait and then do a cutting cycle as well?

 

[RockyRambo]

ok..thanks for the reply..so this means, one has to separate an AAS bulking cycle from an AAS cutting (AAS for holding on to the muscle as much as possible) cycle..? so all i can do is cut naturally as much as possible and then aim for a clean bulk?

 

[Mystere3]

You could also use something like ostarine to try to keep muscle; I imagine it'd be ok for that as well.

 

[RockyRambo]

You could also use something like ostarine to try to keep muscle; I imagine it'd be ok for that as well.

Thanks..some mixed opinions about the product..What I read is "A 12.5-15mg dosing protocol for 4-6 weeks is good for cutting with Ostarine without undergoing any side effects or suppression"..and there's some debate on how to obtain the genuine product.. I live in Singapore so not sure how to source it...but seems it is eulogized in some articles..

 

[lilty1018]

5 10' at 168 and 20% body fat?? you dont need to be doing any hormones of any kind??????

 

[RockyRambo]

5 10' at 168 and 20% body fat?? you dont need to be doing any hormones of any kind??????

hey buddy, as in ? Actually, I have some visceral (belly) fat and some water retention..That's what I need to get rid off before I want to start a bulking cycle..
I am approaching it gradually to avoid any dramatic muscle loss..I am following the cyclical ketogenic diet and lifting as heavy as I would when I am on carbs..

 

[lilty1018]

You have like 135 pounds of actual muscle... you dont need AAS/PH/DS yet is what i was saying haha! im not trying to be rude or anything, just a suggestion.

 

[Mystere3]

Yeah 5' 10 168 at 20% would have me questioning if you even lift.

 

[reps4jesus]

You have like 135 pounds of actual muscle... you dont need AAS/PH/DS yet is what i was saying haha! im not trying to be rude or anything, just a suggestion.

Ya man, that's what us azzholes like to call SKINNY FAT.

 

[RockyRambo]

Yeah 5' 10 168 at 20% would have me questioning if you even lift.

Well, I am not sure of the % age right now..as one of the gyms gave me 16% and the other 20%.. I measured them in the same body state (like before workout)..What I can say is that I have only visible mid-section fat (I assume some water as well)..otherwise, I am definitely not fat.. !! Yes, the muscle mass is not that great and you can call me 'skinny' but that's what I am trying to improve.. So should I not be thinking of using AAS to add good quality lean muscle with a proper clean diet?

 

[RockyRambo]

Yeah 5' 10 168 at 20% would have me questioning if you even lift.

I know this would sound pretty average but currently on the no carb diet this is what my lifting looks like -

Flat bench press (weight inclusive of the 20 kg olympic barbell) - 70 kgs * 10 good quality reps, 80 kgs * 5 'half-reps' , 80 kgs * 5 'half-reps', 60 kgs * 6 reps (bench press to the neck) , 60 kgs * 6 reps (bench press to the neck)

No spotter used and not more than 1 min rest between sets..

What would your opinion be on this lifting? Is it actually poor or on the average side..? ..

 

[kolejorg]

For your size probably not bad. Personally if I were you I would figure out a goal and work towards it before using anything. Either cut and get your body fat down and then do a lean bulk and once you reach your goal weight then add a cycle in. Or try and do a lean bulk and keep your body fat where it is and once you've added mass then cut. It's up to you man and I'm not sure what the laws are in your country or what you have access to. But at your size I would wait, then again I've been to Singapore and didn't see a lot of big guys running around, so do what you will.

 

[Mystere3]

I think any reasonably experienced natty lifter should be able to 1RM 1.25x bw on bench, 1.5x bw on squat, and 1.75x bw on dl. For a 200 lb person that's a combined total of 900 lb; I think I was at like 1350 as a HS senior fwiw. For the OP that should be about 225 lb bench, 250 squat and 300 deadlift.

 

[RockyRambo]

I think any reasonably experienced natty lifter should be able to 1RM 1.25x bw on bench, 1.5x bw on squat, and 1.75x bw on dl. For a 200 lb person that's a combined total of 900 lb; I think I was at like 1350 as a HS senior fwiw. For the OP that should be about 225 lb bench, 250 squat and 300 deadlift.

Thanks.. I will be a little less than that , but definitely a good 1 RM 1.2 * bw on bench and a good 1 RM 1.4 * bw on squat..

 

[lilty1018]

if i were you i would wait a good while to take any AAS, just get diet and lifting down man.

 

[RockyRambo]

if i were you i would wait a good while to take any AAS, just get diet and lifting down man.

Ok, this might sound pretty novice, however, I want to have this clarity.. Let's say one does a mass building cycle at a weight x kgs..Let's say, it is a 12 week cycle and claims to provide a 10 kg lean muscle mass.. Of course, one would be eating at around 45Kcal * body weight in kgs to grow.. If, one has used aromatizing steroids then on this diet, one would gain muscle (10 kgs) + fat + water..Hence, the total weight increase can shoot up to 14-15 kgs..This tantamounts to around 1.2 kg per week over the perioid of 12 weeks..Then after PCT and then after a wait of 1-2 months, one begins cutting naturally and aims to reduce 6-7 kgs of overall body weight including least amount of muscle and most fat and water..
Moreover, as you recommend to wait and increase the bodyweight naturally which could be done by eating more than that's required but bulking up clean, then even if I wait for an year and keep bulking up clean, I can get a lean muscle mass of 2-3 kgs and some fat..

I know my numbers could not even be good ballparks so please correct them..but is that the way one should target and measure bodyweight gains from a cycle and naturally..??

 

[Mystere3]

Your numbers are really unrealistic.

Even with AAS you shouldn't expect to put on much more than 10-15 lb of lbm in a year.

You can probably put on nearly that much natty with how novice a lifter you are.

 

[lilty1018]

at your level you could gain probably 20-30 pounds in a year, you have a ton of work to do before you should even consider a cycle. Yes the cycle would speed things up a lot, but youre wasting what could get you past your natural peak in a few years. you need to EAT BIG LIFT BIG and you will GET BIG

 

[Shaun235]

I bulked from 175-180lbs / 10% bf to my current weight of 230-235 fluctuating 19% bf in about 2 years. Gained a lot of muscle, fat to, but my diet is ****.

 

[reps4jesus]

I bulked from 175-180lbs / 10% bf to my current weight of 230-235 fluctuating 19% bf in about 2 years. Gained a lot of muscle, fat to, but my diet is ****.

You gained %9 bf? That's more like a lot of fat, and a little muscle lol

 

[Shaun235]

You gained %9 bf? That's more like a lot of fat, and a little muscle lol

Do the math. It's a lot of fat, a lot of muscle. I eat what I want. Weighing 175-180 at 5" 11 is to small.
When you get out of prison, you tend to eat everything in site.

 

[reps4jesus]

Do the math. It's a lot of fat, a lot of muscle. I eat what I want. Weighing 175-180 at 5" 11 is to small.
When you get out of prison, you tend to eat everything in site.

Ehh ya. I would cut a few % of bf before running a cycle as it can lead to side effects however an osta clen stack may be helpful with a cut...and possibly some t3. But you don't have to add the t3. Osta will help with strength and also add some size. It also keeps you from losing gainz while cutting fat

 

[Shaun235]

Ehh ya. I would cut a few % of bf before running a cycle as it can lead to side effects however an osta clen stack may be helpful with a cut...and possibly some t3. But you don't have to add the t3. Osta will help with strength and also add some size. It also keeps you from losing gainz while cutting fat

Thanks for the tip