Ostarine SARM use during PCT...Can we clear this up?

[Universal23]

I've recently found out about Ostarine and have done a few hours of research. I'm mainly finding mixed opinions and inexperienced users. Many are swearing by its effectiveness during PCT along with clomid/nolva etc at lower dosages ranging from 3-10mg which supposedly doesn't suppress you, allowing you to keep much more of your gains and good feel. Others are saying it will shut you down not matter what dosage you run along with pct, but no one stating it will shut you down is talking from experience just speculation and argument.

Does anyone have actual experience running Osta during pct at low dosages to keep gains while still recovering with SERMS? Any bloodwork? Any studies on this compound?

Thanks

 

[Mystere3]

Yes, I run it in every pct, with doses much higher than 10. After my last pct (from sdmz 3.0/test p) I ran 20 of osta for a month and two weeks after pct my test was 700 ng/dl.

I think if you want to be safe run 10 eod or buy iml osta rx and run 1 cap ed (6.67 mg). It should be enough to keep gains and shouldn't be suppressive. I will always run at least 10 tho.

There's another guy who ran osta at 25 for a month with bloods and his test at the end of the cycle with no PCT was still 420. No one has ever posted bloods showing complete shutdown with any dose of osta that I've seen.

 

[Hard.Gainer]

Why would you run something that can possibly suppress you or be slightly suppressive when you're already suppressed from a cycle? I haven't looked at any blood work but it still sounds the opposite of what you're trying to do while in pct.

 

[Mystere3]

Pct is a catabolic period. Before the advent of sarms we used to run low dose anavar in pct with serms to try to minimize muscle loss. Now with ostarine you can keep all the gains from your cycle.

I already mentioned my blood work showed complete recovery even with high dose ostarine but even if it were suppressive I'd still run it. I'd rather take a little longer to recover than lose lbm gained from the cycle.

 

[kenwx23]

Just a lurker and I'll make a thread elsewhere for this, but just got bloods drawn after 4.5 weeks of 7.5-12.5mg/day Ostarine.

Best baseline I have are bloods drawn in August, 2012. I see no reason these wouldn't represent me pre-cycle:

Total test: 565
LH: 1.9
FSH: 1.6
Estradiol: 18.0

Today's results:

Total test: 140
LH: 1.5
FSH: 1.0
Estradiol: 11.8

Liver values not affected at all, they stayed quite low. My HDL has run between 55-65 in the past, it dropped to 37. Total cholesterol only 140 though so the ratio isn't terribly out of whack.

Looks like I'll be doing a full blown PCT.

 

[Mystere3]

Those values don't make any sense. Your estradiol is decreased and you'd expect it to be high normal if not slightly elevated. There's a 18 month gap in blood draws too and there's a lot that could happen in the meantime. Also, what time of the day did these draws occur?

In your case I'd probably run a pct. What brand of ostarine were you running?

 

[kenwx23]

Actually in studies, Ostarine reduces estradiol alongside test, at least at the 3mg tested dose. I can't post the link since I don't have 20 posts. Ugh. Search Google for "ostarine study tables"

Most people are dosing much higher than 3mg so maybe the estradiol elevation is related to higher doses. I did a middle ground dose of 7.5-12.5/day. The product was dosed at 50mg/mL so it was tough to get an exact measurement and I didn't bother. Not sure what the source policy is around here but lets say it was something like xxxxx1 .com.

True a lot could happen between those labs, but physically speaking besides being 1.5 years older, all is pretty much the same health-wise. Even managed to impregnate the wife first try back in October.

My recent blood was drawn at 8:05am. The 565 test draw was at 1:00pm. If anything I thought test was supposed to be higher in the morning. Who knows, maybe I'm just hyper-sensitive to this stuff. It was my first cycle of anything, ever.

 

[warbird01]

Why would you run something that can possibly suppress you or be slightly suppressive when you're already suppressed from a cycle? I haven't looked at any blood work but it still sounds the opposite of what you're trying to do while in pct.

This.

 

[Mystere3]

I'll post some references about estradiol in a lil bit.

Ok well the article I was looking for doesn't appear to be online, but basically the mechanism of ostarine causing modest increases in estradiol has to do with downregulation of SHBG.

 

[ChefJoey]

I know shutdown varies for lots of people but I am doing an Ostabol cycle with bloodwork in the cycle info section.

Will gladly share my info with anybody interested.

 

[Mystere3]

It's a matter of philosophy. If you're going to lose a substantial portion of your gains in PCT why run a cycle period?

With my last cycle I lost 1.5 lb of 16 lb lbm gained in pct, which is almost certainly just muscle glycogen. You regularly see logs of people gaining 12 lb lbm and losing 5 with traditional pct. Also since their calories must be high in pct they gain fat. I have my calories at TDEE in pct and still lose no mass.

I have no trouble recovering from even high dose osta, but even if sarms weren't available and my only option was running 5 mg anavar in pct and take longer to recover, I'd still rather do that then lose half my gains from the cycle.

 

[Mystere3]

Here's that article:

Http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.84.10.6122

 

[kenwx23]

I was looking at the Ostarine study in particular released by the drug developer showing estradiol decreases of 37% in males at the 12 week/3mg dose.

My LH/FSH was low even when my test was normal (low normal I guess). So if I have a sluggish FSH/LH response, maybe that could explain why I dropped so hard.

 

[Mystere3]

That could be also because of the long time course; there could be receptor up or down regulation over that time period. It sounds like your LH/FSH levels may have played a role.

The majority of ppl have increased estrogen at least for awhile, because of decrease in shbg through the pi3kinase pathway leading to decreased bound and greater free estradiol.

The fact that you got shutdown so fast by such a low dose of such a mild compound suggests a few possibilities.

1) your lh/fsh were already low as was your test, and it got shutdown more which led to deceased test and estradiol.

2) osta was overdosed and you were taking a very high dose. I think even 50 mg wouldn't suppress you that much but who knows.

3) what you were taking wasn't ostarine, but a stronger androgen.

What happened during the cycle? Did you get lbm gains?

 

[kenwx23]

Yesterday was day 32. I'm up 3-4 lbs, most of which seems to be lean. Maybe a little fat loss. Hard to tell though with such small #s. But clearly not enough to justify the shut down.

I ordered the original blood test because I suspected possible low testosterone. I'm an insanely hard gainer, whether people believe it exists or not. Very small muscle bellies, hold fat around the love handles, bony clavicles, no upper chest, very thin arms/wrists, etc. etc. I could go on and on about my struggles to gain mass, but it's boring. Years of lifting and dieting have netted me more aches and pains than lbs of muscle. But the test came back normal, although the LH/FSH were still on the very low end of normal. Didn't affect fertility though as evidenced by the pregnancy.

In any case, I hoped the Ostarine might provide a little bump in the right direction. It could be overdosed but it'd have to be extremely overdosed as I'm only taking at most 1/5 mL daily.

 

[SLW2]

Subbed for more info on this topic

 

[Soldiersimon1]

I've recently found out about Ostarine and have done a few hours of research. I'm mainly finding mixed opinions and inexperienced users. Many are swearing by its effectiveness during PCT along with clomid/nolva etc at lower dosages ranging from 3-10mg which supposedly doesn't suppress you, allowing you to keep much more of your gains and good feel. Others are saying it will shut you down not matter what dosage you run along with pct, but no one stating it will shut you down is talking from experience just speculation and argument.

Does anyone have actual experience running Osta during pct at low dosages to keep gains while still recovering with SERMS? Any bloodwork? Any studies on this compound?

Thanks

I did ostarine using pct and kept all gains. Seriously. Had pains in my stomach tho on pct like it didnt want me taking anymore sarms so i stopped after 3 week pct only. But kept all gains anyway. Fact

 

[heyboy]

When your values are clear to you, making decisions becomes easier.

 

[yates84]

Anyone who uses osta in PCT is dumb. Fact.

 

[elo76]

Anyone who uses osta in PCT is dumb. Fact.

Hopefully this can be put to rest now. I've seen this coming up more and more. I always recommend not to do it but I think they never listen.

 

[yates84]

Hopefully this can be put to rest now. I've seen this coming up more and more. I always recommend not to do it but I think they never listen.

Osta is suppressive, has been proven at just 3mg. The point of PCT is to reach homeostasis. Therefore, osta in PCT is counterproductive.... otherwise known as "super stupid".

 

[elo76]

Osta is suppressive, has been proven at just 3mg. The point of PCT is to reach homeostasis. Therefore, osta in PCT is counterproductive.... otherwise known as "super stupid".

/thread

I will be linking this thread to anyone who posts about Osta in PCT from now on.

Thanks for jumping in here yates!

 

[THOR 70]

Ostra shut me down per labs values. I would absolutely not use it in pct.

 

[RANS0M]

I really hope nobody takes advice from Dylan Gymelli. He's such a tool. I came across something recently where he said osta can be used in PCT at 25mg for 4 weeks and there isn't any suppression or shutdown.

Osta shut down/ suppression is very user dependent. But there is suppression. That's a guarantee.

Bottom line don't use it in PCT.

 

[BEAST73]

Osta always shut Me down at 25mg, but I am good at 5-20mg with no problems..

 

[yates84]

Osta always shut Me down at 25mg, but I am good at 5-20mg with no problems..

My preferred dose is 15mg, any more is a waste for me and just adds side effects.

 

[BEAST73]

My preferred dose is 15mg, any more is a waste for me and just adds side effects.

When doing 20-25mg, I get Extreme Pumps during Workouts..

 

[RANS0M]

20mg's pre workout I sweat my tits off

 

[BamBam0319]

How is this still a debate? Lol

 

[LAH813]

How is this still a debate? Lol

Because people are ****ing stupid

 

[Soldiersimon1]

Because people are ****ing stupid

Or because they know what maintains gainzzz100% and more after pct. Dont judge on what your not educated on.

 

[LAH813]

Or because they know what maintains gainzzz100% and more after pct. Dont judge on what your not educated on.

Not educated on? I can assure you that I'm more "educated" on this than you are.

 

[BamBam0319]

Or because they know what maintains gainzzz100% and more after pct. Dont judge on what your not educated on.

...ostarine has no place in PCT. Don't try to educate people on what YOU'RE not educated on.

 

[justhere4comm]

Osta is suppressive at low doses. Do not use in PCT.

 

[THOR 70]

Osta is suppressive at low doses. Do not use in PCT.

Yup. 10mg for 8 weeks suppressed me hard

 

[RANS0M]

Ok for the last time.

NO OSTARINE IN PCT.

Lock this up.

 

[elo76]

Yes! Please lock it up! This thread ended a long time ago.

 

[LAH813]

Can we just settle this by saying SARMs are still a huge unknown and people should be cautious before ingesting them? Don't put anything into your body without doing your due diligence with proper care and research.

 

[Jay.99]

That's too detailed to know if you don't do continued blood work. You could always buy a lab machine lol. Drugs act differently in different people, at different doses. Ostarine does obviously shut you down, but for the specific dose, you will never honestly know. If I were you and didn't want to get test my blood frequently, I would lay off the sarm.

 

[CornbreadBath]

The entire purpose of using Osta for the start of PCT is to maintain mass when there is no test in the system. On the last few days of the cycle, test levels are crashing, and Clomid won't kick test above 400 or so for close to a full week.

A low dose of Osta makes sense because it allows both LH and FSH levels to rise significantly, as well as free test levels. The reason it drops total test is because it inhibits SHBG.

The idea is to start taking Osta about a week after your last pin(assuming test e), and stop taking it about 10 days into PCT(assuming you don't start PCT until the Test e has cleared your system). At that point, you should be on the other side of the muscle wasting period. And you still have over two and a half weeks of uninterrupted PCT to get you back to baseline(and without muscle loss).

 

[justhere4comm]

What would you consider a low dose? 1-3mg? I'd consider this to be legitimate if I saw bloods that showed EOC, then after the 10 days on Osta. Wouldn't MK677 be a better option during PCT?

 

[yates84]

The entire purpose of using Osta for the start of PCT is to maintain mass when there is no test in the system. On the last few days of the cycle, test levels are crashing, and Clomid won't kick test above 400 or so for close to a full week.

A low dose of Osta makes sense because it allows both LH and FSH levels to rise significantly, as well as free test levels. The reason it drops total test is because it inhibits SHBG.

The idea is to start taking Osta about a week after your last pin(assuming test e), and stop taking it about 10 days into PCT(assuming you don't start PCT until the Test e has cleared your system). At that point, you should be on the other side of the muscle wasting period. And you still have over two and a half weeks of uninterrupted PCT to get you back to baseline(and without muscle loss).

 

[The Express 42]

View attachment 154155

Yes hahaha he did a really good job of using nice words and making it look like that method will work but just no ??*

 

[yates84]

What would you consider a low dose? 1-3mg? I'd consider this to be legitimate if I saw bloods that showed EOC, then after the 10 days on Osta. Wouldn't MK677 be a better option during PCT?

Eating for your new maintenance and keeping up training intensity are #1. Mk lethargy can be nasty and could be counterproductive to keeping new gains, depends on your tolerance. I say focus on reaching homeostasis while on pct, which is the whole point of pct. adding in drugs will only delay this and that, my friend is ultimately what will kill your gains. If you wanna stay on then just blast and cruise. If you want to pct then just suck it up and run a pct!

 

[justhere4comm]

I'm on a TRT. lol. Was playing the advocate. . But I would prefer GW and MK during PCT. That's a good combo.

 

[yates84]

I'm on a TRT. lol. Was playing the advocate. .

Yeah, was directed at op. Trt is where it's at, after age 30 pct just seemed stupid.

 

[justhere4comm]

Yeah, was directed at op. Trt is where it's at, after age 30 pct just seemed stupid.

Truth.