Contemplating starting the use of Anabolics

rojasdave

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I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm 25 years old and I've been lifting for roughly 4 1/2 years now, and haven't been able to achieve the results that I have been longing for. I'm looking to take it to the next level, are there any beginner guides that can guide me through taking anabolics? I'm not looking to inject anything, oral would be best. I'm 5'11, 265 pounds 25% body fat, looking mainly to lower bf into the teens. Would clen be a good choice?
 

Mystere3

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1) clen isn't a steroid or an anabolic, it's a b2 agonist. Don't use this, at least until you've tried #3

2) your bf is too high to use anabolics.

3) Start with ephedrine, caffeine, and green tea, assuming your blood pressure is in the normal range.

4) the biggest thing to lower your bf is to improve your diet and training.
 
rojasdave

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Honestly my diet is clean, my fat is just very stubborn, been pretty overweight since I was about 11. I've tried EC stack and had little success with it, would clen be an okay option at my weight and body fat? My training is also pretty solid, I did mostly power lifting routines for the past few years and didn't really focus on keeping a great nutrition, mainly focused on proteins and calories but I have cleaned it up recently and consume about 2,000 calories a day with a protein intake of about 200g (my ideal body weight.) I have been looking into clen and have heard that there's little to no point in taking it unless you're in the lower teens, single digits, should I just wait until I drop down in weight and body fat before taking Clen?
 

Mystere3

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Clen makes you feel like **** and causes crazy spikes in blood pressure, so def make sure you're healthy before trying it.

I'm not saying it won't be effective, but I hate the way that stuff makes me feel. I'd use anything besides DNP before using clen.

I mean, if you're 5' 11 and 260 and aren't Dennis wolf, your diet and training aren't on point. Try meal planning with clean food and add a little steady state cardio.
 
liftandeat

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You're at the point where weight should come off pretty easy. I would lose 60 pounds first then use Clen. When you're 5-11 265 at 25% BF there is no such thing as stubborn fat. Diet down naturally first man you'll be happier
 
blacklac

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With 4 1/2 years lifting experience, and your weight, you should be melting fat away like crazy at 2000cals. Are you guessing or tracking calories? Any cardio? Are you doing no or very low carb? I just ask cause your protein seems a bit hugh for 2000cals, but if you enjoy your current food selection, why change.
 
fueledpassion

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With 4 1/2 years lifting experience, and your weight, you should be melting fat away like crazy at 2000cals. Are you guessing or tracking calories? Any cardio? Are you doing no or very low carb? I just ask cause your protein seems a bit hugh for 2000cals, but if you enjoy your current food selection, why change.
He is 265lbs. Probably starving himself which is why the fat is "stubborn".

OP, eat 500kcals below maintenance, which by normal standards would put u around...(let me calculate)

Wait...hear it...

2700 - 3000kcals.

Stop starving urself. Your eating 400kcals below ur BMR. Of course ur not losing fat. The only thing you'll lose at that caloric level is muscle mass.
 
warbird01

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If you are 25% you don't have your diet down. Plain and simple.
 

Mystere3

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Use this:

http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Set your calories 500-750 below your TDEE (should be just above BMR).

Calculate macros of ~50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fat.

Break up those calories into 6-7 meals with the majority of the calories in the AM and around your workout.

Watch the pounds come off.
 
fueledpassion

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Use this:

http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Set your calories 500-750 below your TDEE (should be just above BMR).

Calculate macros of ~50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fat.

Break up those calories into 6-7 meals with the majority of the calories in the AM and around your workout.

Watch the pounds come off.
Yup. His BMR is almost 2500kcals so anything in the 2700 range oughta do.
 
Mr.Sinister

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SARM's triple stack and better diet. More protein, less carbs, HIIT cardio. Or find a good BJJ school. Haha. Always works if they stick with it. I'm always pimpin' the grappling arts. Lol.
 

Mystere3

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Like the idea of triple stack, would likely be pretty effective.
 
reps4jesus

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SARM's triple stack and better diet. More protein, less carbs, HIIT cardio. Or find a good BJJ school. Haha. Always works if they stick with it. I'm always pimpin' the grappling arts. Lol.
Bjjs my main cardio!!! Love it. Much more effective than running or elliptical sh!t lol
 
rojasdave

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Can someone go into more detail of what this SARM triple stack is? Maybe explain it like im 5? I'm going to re evaluate my diet, I need to definitely in corporate more cardio, I haven't been doing any HIIT lately because of the EC stack 9 I read that HIIT and EC can potentially be dangerous.) I believe my main problem is that I eat a lot of carbs during the night, and have a horrible sleep schedule. Thanks for the tips and help everyone, I will be going over my macros, food selection and taking my training to another level before incorporating any sort of anabolics.
 
rojasdave

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With 4 1/2 years lifting experience, and your weight, you should be melting fat away like crazy at 2000cals. Are you guessing or tracking calories? Any cardio? Are you doing no or very low carb? I just ask cause your protein seems a bit hugh for 2000cals, but if you enjoy your current food selection, why change.
Guessing calories, I have never tracked what I have eaten, never really had a reason to, all i cared about was moving heavy weight and upping my proteins and calories for the past few years but I had a small injury (shoulder) so it will be limiting my ability to lift heavier and decided to now focus on body building, tuning my nutrition, incorporating cardio into my regime and using squeezing with lighter weights to my full advantage.
 

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Guide to the different SARMS:

Ostarine (mk2866):

The oldest and best studied of the SARMS, Ostarine was developed by GTx, a division of Merck pharmaceuticals, and has been tested in FDA approved clinical trials
(https://www.merck.com/licensing/news...s-release.html)
with no adverse effects compared to placebo. Ostarine is only very mildly suppressive and has no hepatotoxicity. There are almost no other sides.

It has a couple potential uses:

1) single agent bulk/recomp: dosed between 20 and 30 mg/day in one dose (osta has a 24h half life so once daily dosing is fine). Expect mild dry gains of about 3-5 lb of LBM in 4 weeks or 5-7 lb in 8 weeks. Osta should not be run longer than 8 consecutive weeks. Strength gains tend to be more prominent than size gains. You should run a mini pct with test booster and AI afterwards. Erase/DAA is a good combo. Osta has been shown to be good for nutrient repartitioning as well and is good for recomp with cals around TDEE or cut with a small deficit.

2) adjunct to a PH. As it can be stacked without major increases in suppression or hepatoxicity, you can add it to a mild PH like epi and expect better results. Adding 20 mg of osta to an epi cycle will yield 2-3 additional lb of LBM over what you might otherwise expect from epi.

3) as pct assist. At doses of ~10 mg, osta will help keep gains during PCT and allow strength to continue to increase while still allowing recovery with a SERM and test booster on board.

LGD-4033:

This sarm is far stronger than ostarine but much more suppressive as well. Expect gains of 5-7 lb lbm on a bulk or 3-5 on a recomp when dosed at 10 mg a day. No hepatotoxicity but significant suppeession; a full PCT is necessary after the cycle. Don't run LGD longer than 4 weeks at a time.

LGD shines as a stacked agent; as it's not hepatotoxic, when stacked with epi, you can expect almost msten or sd like gains without the profound lethargy or hepatotoxicity. You should run a stronger pct with LGD tho when stacked, at least 40/40/20/20 of novla.

Andarine (S4):

This SARM is most known as a cutting/hardening agent with androgenic properties and strength gains. It's most comparable in results with stano or furaza. It has 0 suppression or hepatotoxicity and doesn't require any pct but does have some side effects related to a metabolite that cause temporary visual sides (yellowing of vision and decrease in adjusting to darkness), especially at doses over 50 mg. when dosed at 50 mg 5 days on two days off, these sides are uncommon. As it has a short half life, it should be dosed in divided doses of 25 mg with one in the AM and one pwo. This sarm is great for cutting and helps repartition nutrients and increase muscle definition. S4 can be run for up to 8 weeks at a time.

Bonus: GW 50156 (Cardarine)

This is NOT a SARM, rather, it's a PPAR agonist. Developed by GSK, it's an agent shown to decrease body fat and increase exercise capacity. Most ppl have found it to increase their aerobic capacity dramatically. It's typically taken in two divided doses of 10 mg for a total of 20 mg/day.

There have been a few trials showing gw causing cancer in rats. However, the doses tested in the study would be the human equivalent of 500 mg a day for 18 months straight. There's no data showing risk in humans and a decent amount of studies show the receptors thotght to cause the cancers aren't present in humans. Users typically see bf% decreases of 2-3% over a month when diet/exercise is on point.
 
rojasdave

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yeah I don't think i'll mess around with something can impact my vision like that, not worth taking the risk. I'm thinking about running N2Burn, Forma Stanzol, D-Spark and possibly GW 50156, do you possibly see this as a strong stack?
 
Mr.Sinister

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Osta and GW or LGD and GW. I don't use S-4 either. Suppression on LGD is overhyped. I did 12 weeks and experienced none.
 

Mystere3

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Gw is prob the best for you, although s4 would be really good too and the sides aren't really an issue with two 25 mg divided doses and 5 on 2 off dosing.
 
rojasdave

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5 on (workout days) and 2 off (off days) would seem like a great protocol to follow, I just read many logs and that vision impairment seems pretty significant. I'm not too sure about the S4 but the GW, Osta, Formastanzol, N2Burn seems like a stack i might start using very soon.
 

Mystere3

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Osta and GW or LGD and GW. I don't use S-4 either. Suppression on LGD is overhyped. I did 12 weeks and experienced none.
That's not my experience with LGD with bloods. 1 week after a 4 week cycle at 10 mg my test was 180.
 
Mr.Sinister

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Wow, I was at 450 2 weeks after using only HCGenerate.
 
Mr.Sinister

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At what dose? And where did you get it? What results did you get from the cycle? My LGD was pharma quality tablets.
I ran 3mgs for a week and then went to 5. I added 10mg's of GW for last 8 weeks. Had decent results. Was not training like crazy. Hard but not overly aggressive as it was sort of my offseason. Put on about 4-5% strength and about 4-5 pounds. I'd have to dig through my logs for exact numbers. I could probably have put on more, but I was trying to limit BW a little bit for BJJ.
 
jbryand101b

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I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm 25 years old and I've been lifting for roughly 4 1/2 years now, and haven't been able to achieve the results that I have been longing for. I'm looking to take it to the next level, are there any beginner guides that can guide me through taking anabolics? I'm not looking to inject anything, oral would be best. I'm 5'11, 265 pounds 25% body fat, looking mainly to lower bf into the teens. Would clen be a good choice?
I'll keep it shorter n sweeter, no, use muscletech clear muscle instead.
 

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