Prohormone Cycle: Deciding on my next run. Which one?

[Tom15]

Ill start from the top. Ive been lifting for over 7 years and have made most of my gains naturally or with basic supplements. I have used some other ph's in the past few years. Some single compounds and some stacked ph's. I have always played it safe and done my research and used cycle support and PCT.
Flex Fitness Titan Stack was my first big cycle I've done. It was an 8 week on cycle and 4 week pct. I made some huge gains on it both in size and strength without bloating, I was very happy with my physique. I was expecting to see some sides but didn't really have any, little cramping and some acne. I finished that over 6 month ago and have been using natural test or gh boosters on and off sense then. I feel good and have been to my doctor for a check up and some tests and everything came back good. I live really healthy and i attribute it to that for the most part.
After looking around for a while my choices are:

Xcel Sports Momba Venom liquid prohormone-6 weeks on cycle.

Flex Fitness Products Vitamin X Stack - 8 week on cycle.

AAR Altered Mass and Androgeddon - 6-8 week on cycle depending how i run the dosages.

I started looking around for my next cycle about 2 month ago to get a feel for what's out there. Ive looked at a TON of phs and read a TON of reviews and these are the 3 that Im stuck on. The flex brand has been my favorite and most productive cyle so far so im leaning toward that but ive never used a liquid PH.

If anyone out there has used these, let me know what you think. Im not a beginner and hard core is what im after.

 

[Mystere3]

I think you're better off building your own stack than using one of these; the dosages just seem off. If you're dead set on a stack, you'd likely get better results with stenzine or super dmz 2.0 (same thing) with 20 mg of msten and 20 of dmz with two caps/day.

 

[Tom15]

I think you're better off building your own stack than using one of these; the dosages just seem off. If you're dead set on a stack, you'd likely get better results with stenzine or super dmz 2.0 (same thing) with 20 mg of msten and 20 of dmz with two caps/day.

Thanks for the reply. Ive already tried DMZ 2.0. It was ok. It would be way to expensive to build these kind of stacks bottle by bottle. I know Flex and Xcel are reputable brands that work very well because either myself or people i personal know has used them. I am unfamiliar with AAR brand though.

 

[heavylifter33]

I wouldn't bother with any of that nonsense you listed.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Try TR3ST + Stenabol.

 

[csa2179]

Yeah, I wouldn't use any of those. They arnt dosed appropriate. It's like they just had a bunch of left overs and mixed it all up. Try something simple that will work, u didn't lost ur goals, current weight, bf%.

I would go with trest and epi. Or epi and one of trenavar clones.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Yeah, I wouldn't use any of those. They arnt dosed appropriate. It's like they just had a bunch of left overs and mixed it all up. Try something simple that will work, u didn't lost ur goals, current weight, bf%.

I would go with trest and epi. Or epi and one of trenavar clones.

Good suggestions there.

Trest + Epi or Msten for bulking
Trendione + Epi or Msten for cutting

Trest will make you feel great.

 

[Mystere3]

The problem with those stacks is that the dosing is bullsh1t. Dmz/stano or dmz/trest would be much better for what you're trying to accomplish. Coincidentally I'm going to run that exact cycle with all 3 soon.

 

[Ephedraboy]

got a question , what s the difference ( effect ) btw Epistane and Trest?

 

[Football8]

yea no one really reccomends taking these so called all in one stacks....you would e better off buying the compounds you want separate... I've never heard or seen any of those on the forums and not familiar with them

 

[Driven2lift]

I tend to base my suggestions on tested results and logs, a compound worth looking at for you may be Stenzine;

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/232030-stenzine-tyga-20.html

That is one of several logs on AM where great gains were achieved using Stenzine, that log was done by tyga tyga who is also a rep & good guy who would be more than able to answer any questions you may have regarding Stenzine (or any IronFlex PH)

 

[g0hardorgohom]

got a question , what s the difference ( effect ) btw Epistane and Trest?

Two different animals.

Epistane is 17a-alkylated (methylated) DHT derived compound that will give you dry gains. It doesn't aromatize. It's suitable for beginners. Some users may experience lethargy and libido loss with Epi.

Trestolone is not 17a-alkylated compound so it's not that harsh for your liver. It aromatizes to a potent estrogen so it's better have AI on hand just in case. Gains are more wet compared to Epi. It can be used as a "test base" of any cycle - it will keep your libido skyhigh and lethargy at bay. According to Mike Arnold, myotropic (=muscle building) effect of trestolone is 10x greated than myotropic effect of testosterone, in mg/mg basis.

 

[wicked442]

Good to hear you had good results on Titan stack. I started it 1week ago. The only thing thats low is max lmg and epi could be run longer. The rest looks good compared to other multi compound stacks.

 

[Ephedraboy]

Ok , loss of libido with epi , what can i take for not getting the side effect

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Ok , loss of libido with epi , what can i take for not getting the side effect

You said that you have Dermacrine on hand already. It can help.

 

[Mystere3]

Good to hear you had good results on Titan stack. I started it 1week ago. The only thing thats low is max lmg and epi could be run longer. The rest looks good compared to other multi compound stacks.

75 halo, 45 epi, 30 msten??? Good bye liver.

 

[wicked442]

75 halo, 45 epi, 30 msten??? Good bye liver.

I'll let u know. Or maybe not...

 

[Tom15]

I wish there was more people here that had advanced ph experience. Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate all the alternative suggestions but everyone is basically suggesting what i have already done in past cycles.

 

[OnionKnight]

I wish there was more people here that had advanced ph experience. Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate all the alternative suggestions but everyone is basically suggesting what i have already done in past cycles.

Well you're kind of being ignorant trying to stick to those crappy premade stacks. You would get a much better cycle if you controlled those doses yourself. Asking for someone to create an advanced stack for you either means you're being lazy, or you don't know anything yourself

But there are reps in here so you are right to be skeptical

 

[Mystere3]

I have a lot of experience with diff PH stacks but for the most part, simple works best with orals. You're mixing a lot of hepatotoxic substances so the fewer the better.

Honestly even though it's not dosed the best and even though a lot of ppl hate n t b, the gk oxandrovar ph seems legit. Mecha, epi, hexa, tren. Dosed at 75/60/300/60 it'd be pretty legit.

 

[Tom15]

75 halo, 45 epi, 30 msten??? Good bye liver.

As far as this statement goes. If Mysere3 read my first post, I ran the titan stack by flex fitness it worked very well for me. I used all the precautions and even had the blood work a couple month after my pct and everything came back good. To clarify, this is the dosing form Titan Stack:

Titan weeks 1-4: Halodrol 25mg, Max Lmg 20mg, Msten 10mg and carbopol 15mg Per cap, 3 caps a day spaced 6-9 hrs apart.

Titan Two weeks 5-8: Halodrol 25mg, Max Lmg 20mg, Epistane 15mg, Msten 10mg and carbopol 15mg Per cap, 3 caps a day spaced 6-9 hrs apart.
Followed by PCT....ect...

If Wicked 442 runs it with a good cycle support and pct, he'll probably be ok and get massive gains as i did.

 

[Tom15]

I have a lot of experience with diff PH stacks but for the most part, simple works best with orals. You're mixing a lot of hepatotoxic substances so the fewer the better.

Honestly even though it's not dosed the best and even though a lot of ppl hate n t b, the gk oxandrovar ph seems legit. Mecha, epi, hexa, tren. Dosed at 75/60/300/60 it'd be pretty legit.

There's some good info. Ill have to check that out. That's alot like the Vitamin 2X part of the Vitamin X stack though.

 

[Tom15]

Just tried googling the Oxanavar stuff and cant find an ingreedent list. This is what's in the Vitamin 2X:

VITAMIN 2X: 90 Cap

Serving size: 1 Capsul

6-chloro-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol (Hexadrone) 25mg

Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione (Trendione) 25mg

17b-hydroxy-2a,17b-dimethyl-5a-androstan-3-one-azine (Dymethazine) 15mg

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol (Epistane) 10mg

1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) 20mg

Carbopol (Sustain Release) 15mg


This seems balanced to me but heavy on the tren.

 

[Mystere3]

It's oxandrovar by GK prohormones.

 

[Tom15]

It's oxandrovar by GK prohormones.

Googled it again. Cant find any retailers.
Looks like this is the ingreedents:

(METHYLCLOSTEBOL)-4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-en-17ß-ol-3-one-…….25mgs

(EPISTANE)-2,3a-epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol-…….20mgs

(TRENAVAR)-Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione- …………..20mgs

(Hexadrone)6a-Chloro-androst-4-en-17b-ol-3-one……100mg

BIO-SORB

(ABSORPTION / TIME RELEASE MATRIX)

CARBOPOL……………………15mgs



I would be leaning toward Vitamin 2X in the Vitamin X Stack over this because there's too much epi for me and that seems like a lot of Hexadrone.

 

[Mystere3]

It's sold at n 2 b m. I actually think the dosing of anuthing but tren is spot on.

 

[Tom15]

Have you used it?

 

[Mystere3]

Have you used it?

When it first came out yes at 2 caps/day for a month. It was great.

 

[Chris1]

FLEX Fitness Products in a very good brand. I used BE-ST Stack or Beast Stack, what ever it's called. It worked great for me. It would be down between the Vitamin X Stack and the Xcel liquids for me. Ive had friends tell me that based on experience, AAR is not really the way to go.

 

[Turbo64]

alright ive taken two ph cycles already, one with methylstenbolone and haladrol stack and a methylstemblone and epistine stack want to start a third and the problem is im only 18 i know your apperently not suppose to take them at my age anyways but i couldnt resist, only question i have is on my next cycle i wanted to try trenavar, now from what iver herd it has some pretty bad sides from someone whose took it before, will the sides be much if any worse than the sides from what ive already took and at my age would it hurt me in the long run? i wanna get big just not messed up because of it. Ive herd possible male infertility and stuff i want to steer away from that is it's the case. Im brand new to anabolicminds so i appologize if im using the page incorectly, thanks!

 

[Devildog_]

alright ive taken two ph cycles already, one with methylstenbolone and haladrol stack and a methylstemblone and epistine stack want to start a third and the problem is im only 18 i know your apperently not suppose to take them at my age anyways but i couldnt resist, only question i have is on my next cycle i wanted to try trenavar, now from what iver herd it has some pretty bad sides from someone whose took it before, will the sides be much if any worse than the sides from what ive already took and at my age would it hurt me in the long run? i wanna get big just not messed up because of it. Ive herd possible male infertility and stuff i want to steer away from that is it's the case. Im brand new to anabolicminds so i appologize if im using the page incorectly, thanks!

Can't give information or anything about prohormones to anyone under 21. Other then don't do it you have no need to.

 

[Ephedraboy]

alright ive taken two ph cycles already, one with methylstenbolone and haladrol stack and a methylstemblone and epistine stack want to start a third and the problem is im only 18 i know your apperently not suppose to take them at my age anyways but i couldnt resist, only question i have is on my next cycle i wanted to try trenavar, now from what iver herd it has some pretty bad sides from someone whose took it before, will the sides be much if any worse than the sides from what ive already took and at my age would it hurt me in the long run? i wanna get big just not messed up because of it. Ive herd possible male infertility and stuff i want to steer away from that is it's the case. Im brand new to anabolicminds so i appologize if im using the page incorectly, thanks!

Why don't you wait at least 21?

Did you get good results with those 2 cycles? what side effects did you get?

 

[Turbo64]

well I want to play football in college and I had the skill just not the size, with the past two cycles I have gained enough I got offered a half ride to the college I want to go to, to play, I got the best results with the methystemblone and haladrol with 19lbs of gains and keeping 13 after my pct and impressive strength gains sides were occasional bloody noses out of the blue and some minor mood swings and acne and that's about it have time for one more cycle before I have to do any tests for football, herd there were some pretty crazy gains seeing how it converts into trenbolone in the body wanting to run 100mg,s a day for 8 weeks.

Why don't you wait at least 21?

Did you get good results with those 2 cycles? what side effects did you get?

 

[Mystere3]

What's a half ride? Grey shirt? Prohormone detection times might be longer than you think. If your fall camp is in august or w/e I would advise against it.

 

[reps4jesus]

Why don't you wait at least 21?

Did you get good results with those 2 cycles? what side effects did you get?

You where asking for advice at 20...lmao

 

[reps4jesus]

Why don't you wait at least 21?

Did you get good results with those 2 cycles? what side effects did you get?

Sorry bud but There isnt a big difference between starting at 17-21. Obviously the older the better but Either way your endocrine system is not fully developed and your natty test levels are at their highest. Are you saying that by waiting till the day he turns 21 he will be ready? Haha

 

[Ephedraboy]

Sorry bud but There isnt a big difference between starting at 17-21. Obviously the older the better but Either way your endocrine system is not fully developed and your natty test levels are at their highest. Are you saying that by waiting till the day he turns 21 he will be ready? Haha

Maybe there s not a big difference , but the later the better for him.
It's written on anabolic products etc to wait at least 21 , its bad even at 21 yes , but at 17 , it's really too young

 

[Chris1]

Of course he got "good gains"...look at what he ran. That's not the point though. His body was not developed enough yet to be using that stuff and he could have got good gains from natural supps and good diet. He ran a super lean stack and he still lost almost 30% of his gains which means his diet is not in check. And now he wants to use a trendione which is has a higher chance of suppression. at:

 

[Chris1]

well I want to play football in college and I had the skill just not the size, with the past two cycles I have gained enough I got offered a half ride to the college I want to go to, to play, I got the best results with the methystemblone and haladrol with 19lbs of gains and keeping 13 after my pct and impressive strength gains sides were occasional bloody noses out of the blue and some minor mood swings and acne and that's about it have time for one more cycle before I have to do any tests for football, herd there were some pretty crazy gains seeing how it converts into trenbolone in the body wanting to run 100mg,s a day for 8 weeks.

What are you talking about? The only thing that converts to trenbolone is trendione...don't use either of those at your age. it would be more suppressive than halo and m sten.

What there supplements are you using and give us an example of you daily diet Terbo64.

Hey buddy. Tre

 

[Turbo64]

What are you talking about? The only thing that converts to trenbolone is trendione...don't use either of those at your age. it would be more suppressive than halo and m sten.

What there supplements are you using and give us an example of you daily diet Terbo64.

Hey buddy. Tre

Trenavar is trendione you can call it either and what are you talking about suppressive? Sorry just not familiar with the term what am I suppressing? And natural supplements I take are gold standard whey, BCAA aminos, men's sport vitamins, and I go off of a 40/40/20 diet 40% protein, 40%fat, and 20%carbs and keep good track of it.

 

[reps4jesus]

Trenavar is trendione you can call it either and what are you talking about suppressive? Sorry just not familiar with the term what am I suppressing? And natural supplements I take are gold standard whey, BCAA aminos, men's sport vitamins, and I go off of a 40/40/20 diet 40% protein, 40%fat, and 20%carbs and keep good track of it.

Oh Jesus. If you don't know what your suppressing please stop taking steroids. Please....Just...stop.
:facepalm:

 

[reps4jesus]

Maybe there s not a big difference , but the later the better for him.
It's written on anabolic products etc to wait at least 21 , its bad even at 21 yes , but at 17 , it's really too young

My last hdrol bottle said 18 and up. Lol I quit going by "their" directions when I realized they didn't know what's best for me. If they say 18 and up obviously they don't actually care. And this kid is stupid so he shouldn't run anything, I agree with that. I'm sick of people trying to run cycles when they don't know what they're doing. I did 2 years of research before I ordered anything.

 

[Chris1]

Trenavar is trendione you can call it either and what are you talking about suppressive? Sorry just not familiar with the term what am I suppressing? And natural supplements I take are gold standard whey, BCAA aminos, men's sport vitamins, and I go off of a 40/40/20 diet 40% protein, 40%fat, and 20%carbs and keep good track of it.

Suppression is when your body starts producing less than normal levels of its natural testosterone because it's seeing a synthetic version of hormone at high levels in the body already (-basically-). Trendione can do this more in some users than other compounds. Some people can get away with using natural test boosters on cycle to avoid this as much as possible but that's hit and miss. This is why you need a good PCT to boost Natural test and lower natural estrogen/limit the bonding of estrogen to receptors balancing your natural hormones and making it possible to maintain you gains. However, when I finished my last 8 week PH cycle that had 60 mg a day of Trendione on the second half of it I was fine. PCT'd off and Im still good but I had a full grown and mature body when i did that. Steroids suppress you WAY more than Prohormones for a hand full of reasons.
'I feel' that the biggest risk of using PH's is suppressed testosterone so keep that in mind. That's why a young, undeveloped man should not use PH or AAS and a young age.

 

[Turbo64]

Suppression is when your body starts producing less than normal levels of its natural testosterone because it's seeing a synthetic version of hormone at high levels in the body already (-basically-). Trendione can do this more in some users than other compounds. Some people can get away with using natural test boosters on cycle to avoid this as much as possible but that's hit and miss. This is why you need a good PCT to boost Natural test and lower natural estrogen/limit the bonding of estrogen to receptors balancing your natural hormones and making it possible to maintain you gains. However, when I finished my last 8 week PH cycle that had 60 mg a day of Trendione on the second half of it I was fine. PCT'd off and Im still good but I had a full grown and mature body when i did that. Steroids suppress you WAY more than Prohormones for a hand full of reasons.
'I feel' that the biggest risk of using PH's is suppressed testosterone so keep that in mind. That's why a young, undeveloped man should not use PH or AAS and a young age.

Alright thanks that's literally all I was wanting to know

 

[Tom15]

Deciding on FLEX Fitness Products, Vitamin X Stack. I will be starting a log and posting pictures.

 

[justeat]

Everywhere that mentions dosing protocols of trendione/trenavar (estra-4,9,11-triene-3 17-Dione) at 90mgs At least, for the start. I was thinking of stacking with Epi and dosing the tren at 60mg for the first 3-4 weeks just to save money. I would dose Epi at 40mg straight for 6 weeks, so I figured taking it easy with the tren would be ok.

has anyone tried dosing the trendione at this lower dose? Thoughts? If you need at least 90 to get the ball rolling, that fine, I'll do 90.

sorry to thread jack, but this thread seems pretty open ended and this stack has been mentioned earlier on. I've done my research but there's so many tren-like chemical variations that trying to find Accurate dosing info is driving me nuts.

 

[OnionKnight]

I just finished tvar + hdrol on Monday. I did

Hdrol
75/75/75/75/100/100

Tvar
60/90/90/90/90/90

Only reason I did 60 first week was to stretch out my pill count to last 6 weeks. And it was more like 60 for 3 days, then 90 the rest

I'd say definately go 90+ ASAP. I noticed a kick in strength much sooner than I did with solo hdrol 2 years ago

 

[Tom15]

Everywhere that mentions dosing protocols of trendione/trenavar (estra-4,9,11-triene-3 17-Dione) at 90mgs At least, for the start. I was thinking of stacking with Epi and dosing the tren at 60mg for the first 3-4 weeks just to save money. I would dose Epi at 40mg straight for 6 weeks, so I figured taking it easy with the tren would be ok.

has anyone tried dosing the trendione at this lower dose? Thoughts? If you need at least 90 to get the ball rolling, that fine, I'll do 90.

sorry to thread jack, but this thread seems pretty open ended and this stack has been mentioned earlier on. I've done my research but there's so many tren-like chemical variations that trying to find Accurate dosing info is driving me nuts.

It's cool man. Ive had friends dose that tren as low as 45 mgs a day and still get really good results....90 would be about max as a stand alone. 30 mg gets the ball rolling....90mg launches it across the park. I would say add the epi at the end to finish with a bang. Use a good cycle support and pct.

 

[Mystere3]

I ran it regularly at 150. Don't think you get much out of it at low doses. 150 a day of oral tren is like maybe 100-150 a week of trenbolone.

 

[Tom15]

WOW! Thats a lot...
I will be running the most tren ive ever ran in about a month. 75mg + other stuff. Some say its low dosed and some say it's way hi...guess ill find out if it works for me. Dont try this a home kids. lol

90 Cap

Serving size: 1 Capsul

6-chloro-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol (Hexadrone) 25mg

Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione (Trendione) 25mg

17b-hydroxy-2a,17b-dimethyl-5a-androstan-3-one-azine (Dymethazine) 15mg

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol (Epistane) 10mg

1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) 20mg

Carbopol (Sustain Release) 15mg