- 02-09-2005, 10:20 AM
Well fellas, I wasn't going to write a log however I have changed my mind. There are lots of unanswered questions so I figured I would give my opinion, FWIW. I want to stay legal so this is the best option at this time, but I am anxiously waiting for DS to shake things up.
A little background...
Have tried several PHs in the past when they were legal (tears swell in my eyes) including M1T,
MOHN, 1AD, 4AD, 1 Test(One, S1+ etc), m5aa, 3 alpha. I have not tried SD so I can't comment on that. I have been PH free for nearly 10 weeks and my last cycle was 1 AD (oldie but goodie for me)and 4 AD trans and m5aa. When I was on M1T @ 30 mg didn't give me great gains like everybody else seem to get, not even the bloat.
I'm 29, 6'1, and #229. My measurements aren't intimidating but have been steadily progressing however my arms and calves lack the most then quads. Chest 49.25, waist 34, quads 25.75, calves 15.75, arms 15.5.
Seriously lifting for 2 years but have trained since I ran track in college. Absolute ectomorph, very hard gainer, stuck @ #230 mark for about 8 months. Eating roughly 3600-4000 cals/day. 40-45-15 split with chicken, salmon, tuna, eggs, dairy, lean beef, and lean pork, oh, of course whey. Carbs are from whole wheats, oatmeal, beans, pwo dextrose, occasional weight gainer. Fats from sesathin, fish oil and flax seed oil. I eat about every three hours and typically drink a whey shake and 2 tbsp of PB when I get up to go the bathroom at night.
Lift 5 on(M-F) then 2 off(S-S) do to convenience and it has been working for me. Typically 16-19 sets of 8-10 reps with on larger muscles (chest, legs, back) and typically 12-15 working sets on smaller groups(bis, tris, forearms). Mondays-back/calves, Tuesday-chest/abs, Wednesday-legs/abs, Thursday-arms/forearms, Friday-shoulders/traps, Saturday-kung fu/abs, Sunday-rest.
I don't typically ever push to a true max but my bests are 245 for 6 incline, 365 for 6 squat, 385 for 5 DL, 80 for 6 DB shoulder press, 60 for 8 DB curl, 255 for 6 BB row.
So I take the Ergomax 10 mg "propietary" once in morning and then about 10 hours laters before I lift. I will do this for 3 to 4 weeks depending how I feel I am progressing or side effects. I'm assuming it is likely methylated and will be taking 1fast proliver and additional NAC and Milk Thistle post cycle. I will also do a typically PCT with 6 OXO (or preferrably Sledges' if it is ready) and nolva.
Retrospectively I started on Monday and had a normal workout, no significant changes. However, yesterday I did chest and noticed that I had a pretty good pump, both in the chest and tris, just from the chest workout. Strength was unchanged. I'm not saying this is on par with a PH yet but I haven't had a pump like that in over 10 weeks when I was on the last cycle.
This is the first time I have ever done so I will like any input from others or if anybody has any questions.
- 02-09-2005, 11:44 AM
Great, looking forward to reading your results.
- 02-09-2005, 12:23 PM
killer. this is exactly what we're looking for - someone with a well ironed-out diet and training schedule to try it solo.
i love you, man.
(seems like alot of sets by the way. most guys i know dont go over 15 on any group, and that's on the high side. anyone else agree?)
02-09-2005, 12:49 PM
Yes, it depends. My larger body parts respond better from a little more volume. However it seems like it has the opposite on my smaller body parts. Nothing is hard and fast for me, if I'm at 10 sets with a good pump then I quit. If not then I may add one more exercise. However, point taken, more is not always better.Originally Posted by blank!
02-09-2005, 01:14 PM
Best of luck. I think you will be pleased with the product and ALRI products in general. ALR replied to an email I sent him with some questions, and now I must admit that I find ErgoMax to be a product definitely worth trying.
02-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Any chance you would be willing to let us know those questions and answers? I am on the product right now but only as a short test at the end of my cycle so I don't think a log would be useful but I can say that my sex drive is through the roof.
02-09-2005, 04:50 PM
Any answer to sledge's question about toxicity?Originally Posted by size
02-09-2005, 05:13 PM
Good Luck, I'm sure a lot of people will be interested in this log!
02-09-2005, 06:34 PM
did you per chance find out if it is methylated? That's a pretty significant factor for sure, in terms of potential efficacy as well as safety and use of ancillaries.
02-09-2005, 06:39 PM
02-10-2005, 07:07 AM
Leg day last night and it went well. This is the first week on it so it will be interesting to how the upcoming weeks play out. Workout went well, squats ended at 315 x 8 for two sets which is typical for me when I'm not on cycle. So strength is not changed and I really don't expect it to if this plays out like everything else I have tried. Appetite is unchanged, sleep has been solid. The only thing I noticed again yesterday was a pump like effect which seems to be the only change in the last two days. The weird thing is that I still feel a little bit of it yet this morning. It will also be interesting because I get bacne at the drop of a hat, so that should definately become an issue in the next three days. I will weigh myself once a week because I don't believe in weighing myself everyday because that is too variable. Arms are today.
02-10-2005, 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by kevinW
02-11-2005, 07:15 AM
was great! Started the compound on Monday and this was the first bi and tri day. Biceps had a pretty good pump after the first set but it was the first time that I noticed something else besides the good pump. Not so much strength but endurance within the set. DB curls went 45 x 10, 50 x 10, 55 x 10 for 2. Usually I can only finish one set with 55s, I was going to try the 60s but I decided to wait until next week. On the tris, I had to cut the kickbacks short because of the pump.
I'm still wary of this and will want to see what plays out next week. So far all I notice is the pumps and it's like it's super NO product or something, however, I wouldn't know because I haven't tried any of those. Shoulders today, I take the weekend off but I run occasionally on an indoor track at a local university and I may try to see how my aerobic endurance is.
02-11-2005, 08:10 AM
Also noticed some acne on my back. I usually have one or two until I get a tan but I noticed after my showever this morning there was like 6-7. I may have to add some b-5. I am going to get a lipid panel done when I finish, I had some done about 6 months ago before I started on 1 AD/4AD/M5AA and it wasn't too bad except for HDL.
02-11-2005, 04:16 PM
It's only gonna get worse I tried to warn everyone in another thread. It's a weird, volumous form too, quite unique to anything else IMO. Sebaceous warfare is all that would control it: Accutane 10-20mg/20mg pheromone.Originally Posted by knuckles
02-12-2005, 12:26 PM
I did shoulders yesterday and once again a good workout. Pump was great again and had a difficult time finishing lateral raises. Oh, finally believe I there was an increase in strength with BB shoulder presses 155 x 10 behind the neck which equals a best for me. Today my shoulders still feel full. I will definately be able to tell if it is placebo or if there is strength changes Monday. This feels like it is definately something, is it the same as other PHs, time will tell, to early to judge.
02-12-2005, 12:30 PM
Dr. D are you a clinician? You are very knowledgeable and I know you have a strong chemistry background. I've prescribed Accutane in the past for patients and I've seen some interesting liver values. That was when I first started. I would be nervous to mix that with ??methylated androgenic?? compound. Just wondering your thoughts? I've used the clindamycin gel with much success.Originally Posted by DR.D
02-13-2005, 10:17 PM
I'm no clinician, DrD was an old high school nic-name. I'm a physicist, but organic medicinal and pharmaceutical chemistry have always been strong side intrests and a hobby of mine. Clin PO4 topical works well for me too, as does E-mycin 2% gel. 0.1% tret cream is the best when it gets bad, but sometimes I have to use Accutane. I used to take 2wk courses of Doxycyline H.(100mg BID) at the peak of acne in a cycle, but after awhile, that made me nervous. Besides, it seems a 2wk course of Accutane gives slightly better post therapy persistance @ 20mg/d. I'm not aware that this has ever had a signifigant impact on my liver values. What have you observed? Also, I only tested a short course of the pheromone. I got a baseline profile, but did not follow up on post blood work due to the short duration (3-4 wks) so I can not in all honesty claim safety for this combo long term. As for isotretinoin, I know about the nasty metabolites, the isozymes involved, the lipid changes, the optical issues, etc.. it's a dirty med, but I always responded so well to 20mg/d/2wk so at this dose for such short periods, I haven't worried too much about it. I believe dose and duration are of importance in developement of toxicity with retinoids in general, but it is my last resort though.Originally Posted by knuckles
02-14-2005, 08:14 AM
Weekend is off as usual but still continued to eat well and also take the Pheroblix bid. I did notice this morning that my lab coat is tighter, especially across my back. So I weighed myself and I am 231 which is up from 228-229. I am really looking forward to lifting this week. Now getting a few more zits on my face too. I am going to start some Clindagel 1%, doxy works for me but I rather not take that while I am bulking.
02-15-2005, 07:30 AM
Back yesterday and felt strong. Actually felt stronger today and got a few more reps than I typically do. My workout partner said I made deadlift look easy. It actually felt easier too. I finished with DLs with the last two sets of 345 x 8. Looking forward to see how my chest exercise goes. Oh, libido was pretty high yesterday and it wasn't just because it was Valentine's Day .
02-16-2005, 07:28 AM
Chest again yesterday and the pump again was great. Strength is beginning to noticeably increase. It is ever so slightly though. Instead of 110 x 6 with DB I got 110 x 10, so there is definately a difference.
So after being on this for a week I have gained a 2 pounds, pumps are quite evident for me and strength up slightly, a little more acne. Recovery does not feel the same as with PHs. I suffer from a little more DOMS now. Haven't noticed any hairline effects or hair falling out, yet.
02-16-2005, 11:05 AM
Seems like they are already stopping production:
Applied Lifescience Research Industries, Inc. (ALRI) is appalled at the misrepresentation of Ergomax LMG as an anabolic-androgenic steroid (i.e. controlled substance).
We have voluntarily removed this product from our product line to avoid further animosity on the supplement industry by government bodies and authorities.
We feel this is the only ethical approach given the current situation to avoid discrimination against other and future ALRI products.
We do have a compound that will replace Ergomax LMG that our attorneys assure us will be legal for some time to come.
02-16-2005, 01:13 PM
That's too bad. I really kind of like the way I feel on it. I am going to try increasing the 20 mg bid and see how that goes. That will be the highest I go but I may pick up a few more bottles just to have, not a boat load though. Still waiting to see what's to come.
02-17-2005, 07:26 AM
A great leg workout yesterday. Squats, leg press and then leg ext which were painful because of the pump. Then leg curls, SLDL and finally front squats with a semi sumo stance. It felt great. I'm really likeing the feeling on this. No, don't expect SD or M1T. However, all I got from M1T was back cramps and zits but many got explosive gains from it. I feel more focused and strength is beginning to come. I will go to 40 mg a day and that will be the max for me which I am starting today.
02-18-2005, 10:16 AM
Update as usual, however it looks like I am the only one here. Anyway, DB curls up to 60s which felt really easy then did preachers with 85 with drops sets and my arms were screaming but it felt like I could just keep going. Did tris and got a great pump off those. I was doing skull crushers with 50 on each side of the cambered bar and it felt great. Strength is definately up. Weird thing I noticed with this compound is that I feel my endurance has gotten better with mild strength increase. What I mean is that I am nearing some of my maxes but I'm blowing the reps away. I'm on 40 mg/d for two days and it has been great. Sense of well being is great, no real aggression, but skin is oily. I wash with clearasil and like an hour later it feels really oily. Luckily, I got some more before ALRI just pulled. I hear Bill Llwelynn say that this will be banned sooned too but I don't know the validity of that.
02-18-2005, 01:21 PM
ErgoMax -swap for Test?
knuckles: What about sex drive while taking ErgoMax for a while? On other boards some have reported an increase.Originally Posted by knuckles
I was wondering if ErgoMax would be a worthy & legal alternative to Test (if stacked with something else that may "shut down" natural Test and decrease the sex drive).
02-18-2005, 02:19 PM
Libido has been pretty good. Soldier somes to attention and ready for action with little prompting. As a replacement for Test, I wouldn't say that. But so far I have been happy enough with the results as a stand alone that I bought two more bottles. But everyone reacts differently, I didn't respond to M1T, M1,4 and MOHN worked for me but caused horrible prostate issues. That did not make any sense to me but as soon as I stoped it cleared up. No prostate issues yet on the Ergo.Originally Posted by hushdrops
02-18-2005, 05:05 PM
I would say it is a good replacement for Test. Not as good as the real thing but pretty good as far as the sex drive goes. I was on it for the last two weeks of my cycle and my drive was through the roof. I really have this feeling it is dmt though which means it is likely to shut you down.
Originally Posted by hushdrops
02-18-2005, 05:27 PM
1st Sexxxy methyl proH type product? ErgoMax?
That's pretty much what I was looking for: not a "perfect" replacement of Test of course but something that could produce "similar" results mainly in the area of "sex drive" and other "fell good / well being" effects that Test provides.Originally Posted by Mr.50
Hypothetically then one could perhaps use Ergomax with something that shuts down your natural Test production (like Deca for instance) and then leaves you with little Test in your body (because Deca shut down your natural Test an if you are not also using Test supplementation along with the Deca). If Ergomax could help out as a safe / legal alternative to Test that would be pretty cool.
It seems like most of the methyl pro-hormones that were developed before the ban -none of them really were known for increasing the sex drive that I know of.
Thanks knuckles and Mr.50 for your Ergomax feedback.
02-18-2005, 07:10 PM
Got done with shoulders tonight and that went well. Endurance was good and pump was good too. Strength is still climbing and I am really getting excited because I really notice the effects of PHs during the third week which is next week. I typically get my biggest gains then.
This stuff does help with libido. In fact, I was trying to sleep last night night and the next thing I'm banging the wife. It reminds of M5AA at like 60-80 mg/d without agression. Same focused feeling though. It would be interesting to see if this would help combat 1 Test lethargy or nor diol which really hit me hard. I have no idea about deca, maybe Dr. D could chime in with his opinion.
I'm pleased. It doesn't knock my socks off but it is more than I expected in this day of PBE.
02-18-2005, 11:01 PM
ErgoMax Libido Boosting
Deca is strange, many people today will not touch it "alone" in fear of Deca Dick but in the 80's my fatehr and his other cop pals took the stuff like crazy, smoetimes on it's one (thought they mostly stacked the hell out of everything avialable whifch was a lot and cheap too back then).Originally Posted by knuckles
Some FAQ's even today will say Deca increases libdo whilei others swaer against doing Deca alone becasue you will be pretty much temporaliry impotent (Deca Dick) for a while until your system kicks your own Test back up after PCT. I wouldn't chance Deca alone but was thinking that Ergomax may keep your libido and other stuff "up" if one was to do a Deca ctylce (if Test is not available). Wish I had the Deca & Ergomax to try it out, I'd fill everyone in, anybody wanna donate some? :-)
02-19-2005, 08:01 PM
I already said in another post that I this pheromone would be perfect to stack dec, 1T, 19-nor PH's or anything of low androgenic potency. Not sure if it would combat the lethary, I never really get bad lethary from 1T(M1t is a very different story) but it would balance out sides at least and allow the overall dose of the phero to be kept low. You want to use the lowest dose possible to avoid sides. It is approx equal to test in libido support, so it adds up what you guys have been reporting. It boosted mine as well at 20mg/d.Originally Posted by knuckles
02-19-2005, 08:04 PM
Haha, send me some too! Dec always increased my libido for about 2 or 3 weeks, then came the probs. I could start just like normal but I just couldn't finish, that sux! Stacking w/ test fixes it so the phero might as well.Originally Posted by hushdrops
02-19-2005, 09:33 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Beaumont, TX
- Rep Power
A physicist? I took physics for engineers in college - and the phys majors were some of the weirdest people in there, but damn if they didn't kick our asses.
What is your specialty? I'm a chemical engineer.
02-20-2005, 04:22 PM
I know, I know, but I'm really not the typical nerdy phys major. Actually, I have been accused of being an F'ing weirdo on several occasions, but I guess I'm a bit too eclectic for most people to appreciate. Sports and football was my first love, then fighting, girl chasing and beer drinking. Shiii man, I failed chemistry and math in high school, but always studied my own intrests on the side(metaphysics, biology, pharmacology) I finally quit school and became a full time gigolo, had a great rep with the ladies But a few years later, finally got my **** together, went to college and got two degrees in nuclear biophysics and chem tech. Even so, my strongest areas are still medicinal pharmacology. Had to let the girlies go when I got married, it was a bad lifestyle anyway. Haveing strippers and their horny friends around all the time, constant parties, just wasn't healthy. Now I'm a bit ashamed of some of the **** I did, but it all serves as a learning process. Most people would never guess in a million years where I'm really from and who my teachers were.Originally Posted by jmh80
02-20-2005, 04:43 PM
...Dr. D; International Man of Mystery. With a couple science degrees for good measure. Retired from girlie-chasing, but on the ball in the forums. Always knew there was some history behind all that good info....
02-20-2005, 05:38 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Beaumont, TX
- Rep Power
Wow. Yes, my life is boring. So, you are, what, 35? Sounds like a whirl-wind life.
And to think I always thought you were a boring MD.
02-20-2005, 06:21 PM
Haha, I'm 33. I've learned a lot in my time, and my life is just as busy now but not as dangerous, so I'm pretty boring too these days. I really think it's better that way, just need to slow down so God can finish his work in me. But I'm always here for you guys, I've learned a lot from you too.
02-21-2005, 09:49 AM
Alright stepped on the scale today and I'm up another 2-3 pounds since last week. Total that is about 4-5 pounds in two weeks. This typically is my best week with androgens. I see my best gains this week and much so in the strength department. I also noticed this morning a pair of my dress pants for office was very tight in ass and quads. Felt like I was going to rip a hole in the crotch if I sit weird. Back workout today. Like Duke Nukem would say, "Come, get some!!!".
02-22-2005, 07:48 AM
Impressive back day for myself yesterday. My workout partner kept saying how heavy everything felt, yet I was cranking out reps. Definately beginning to feel the strength at this point. Not Herculian but still quite noticeable. Today is chest and going to try for some PRs and see what I can do. Libido is still great and nutz haven't had any noticeable shrinkage.