Where to go from here (6 weeks into HRT)

[Cronos1247]

So for the past year I've been on a pretty slow and controlled bulk. I've went from around 230-238 during that time and jumped onto HRT 6 weeks ago. I probably should have cut before starting HRT but I was at least 14-15% BF before getting on it. After 6 weeks I'm around 243lbs and probably sitting at closer to 16-17% (I'm not too great at estimating this and I have loose skin from losing 107lbs 5+ years ago, which I'm having surgery on later this year fix).

That being said: My HRT started at 140mg of cypionate initially and my doctor has been bumping me up 10mg at a time every few weeks, up to 160mg now and will be 170mg next week. I don't plan on cycling on/off HRT, just cruising. All of my levels (bp, estrogen, etc.) have stayed perfect so he hasn't suggested an AI or HCG for atrophy of anything like that, pretty simple.

Should I cruise on HRT for a while before looking into adding any additional compounds? I will probably start a cut pretty soon to get my BF % down because I'll be going on vacation for my honeymoon in June, engagement photos coming up, etc. but at the same time I don't want to lose the "virgin receptor" gains (or so I've heard?). Would you guys advise just looking past the gained BF % and continuing my bulk while I'm still relatively early in on my cypionate OR does it even matter since I won't be cycling on/off?

Sorry for the long post, I tend to ramble, looking for responses though. Thanks!

Edit: Just for informational purposes, my test levels were 359 when starting HRT. After 4 weeks, my levels were still the same. Doctor said my body was efficiently using the test?

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I'd consult your doctor. You'll probably have to get bloodwork done every now and then - I wouldn't take any additional compounds close to blood drawing. Your doc could think that it's the TRT that elevates your liver values etc and lower the dose of TRT or even make you stop it completely.

 

[kisaj]

You can't tell much if anything at 6 weeks into TRT. You need to settle in and get tested at 3 and 6 months to assess where you sit. Sides from getting closer to 200mg will likely pop up at those times.

 

[Cronos1247]

Thanks for the input. I know from what my Dr. has said, we test levels and blood work every 3 months. I'll wait a while longer to see how my next results show before considering anything.

 

[T-Bone]

Did the doctor suggest you go on TRT at test level 359, or did you insist on starting TRT?. Just wondering because my doctor says I'm fine, or "in range" and my level is 320. By the way how old are you Cronos?

 

[kisaj]

Before you go much further, you may ask for a referral to an endo. 359 test levels one time should not warrant going on TRT, imo.

 

[Cronos1247]

Did the doctor suggest you go on TRT at test level 359, or did you insist on starting TRT?. Just wondering because my doctor says I'm fine, or "in range" and my level is 320. By the way how old are you Cronos?

I initially went to a local TRT clinic and my levels tested at 450. He wouldn't treat me and I didn't insist. After a few months, I went to another low T clinic that was about 45 minutes away and the Dr. said he would treat me. I ended up telling my local doc that I was treatable according to further out clinic, so he went ahead and started it so I didn't have to drive so far.

I'm 29.

 

[kisaj]

Oh my, another wonderful TRT clinic story.

 

[Mystere3]

What's your reason for going on TRT? Just want access to test?

 

[Cronos1247]

What's your reason for going on TRT? Just want access to test?

Yes, just wanted to give test a try.

 

[Mystere3]

Yes, just wanted to give test a try.

Seems like buying it from a source would be better than relegating yourself to frequent blood tests and doctor visits for life, but w/e.

 

[Cronos1247]

Seems like buying it from a source would be better than relegating yourself to frequent blood tests and doctor visits for life, but w/e.

From what I've read and heard, it seems pharma grade (and it makes sense) takes all the worries away. I'd rather have my insurance cover my test and not have to worry about it being under dosed or anything like that. Injecting myself with something that I can't absolutely verify the origin of always bothered me lol.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

From what I've read and heard, it seems pharma grade (and it makes sense) takes all the worries away. I'd rather have my insurance cover my test and not have to worry about it being under dosed or anything like that. Injecting myself with something that I can't absolutely verify the origin of always bothered me lol.

You won't get huge with TRT doses of testosterone. Honestly, it's stupid to get on TRT just because you want to avoid PCT's.

 

[Mystere3]

I get pharma grade test too, without wirrying about having to go in for blood testing.

 

[kisaj]

It's not a matter of worrying, it is a matter of health. If you are going to run test for the rest of your life, you want to know where you stand.

 

[B5150]

Seems like buying it from a source would be better than relegating yourself to frequent blood tests and doctor visits for life, but w/e.

Wherever he gets it is irellevant - he needs his bloods from somehere and a comprehnsive health and hormone blood panel can be very expensive out of pocket.

 

[Mystere3]

My point is that going on TRT means you're on it forever, practically speaking. Seems drastic at age 29, but whatever.

 

[kisaj]

Some people learn the hard way.

 

[Cronos1247]

You won't get huge with TRT doses of testosterone. Honestly, it's stupid to get on TRT just because you want to avoid PCT's.

Yea I wouldn't imagine I would put on a crazy amount of mass on TRT dosing (but I've never really seen ANYONE put on a crazy amount with a test only cycle). I've noticed so far that I have put on a little quality weight, but nothing substantial. The reason I got on TRT is because I was going to cycle on a moderate dosing of Test E (just around 200-250mg a week), but figured taking this route would save me the hassle of sourcing since I wasn't able to find any that I felt were reliable enough & my insurance is covering it.

I'm just curious for what your reasoning is for being against TRT? If I was going to dose around 200mg a week regardless, would it matter much if I was just going to taper up to the 200mg anyways? Or is your main reasoning due to the length of TRT and not following a standard PCT?

I only ask because I'm about 6 weeks into my injections so I'm still not beyond standard cycling length.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I'm just curious for what your reasoning is for being against TRT?

TRT is a thing that lasts for the rest of your life, assuming that your doc don't take it away from you. Just something to think about.

 

[Mystere3]

You're going to be on it forever and it shouldn't be necessary at age 29. Whatever tho.

 

[emantest]

"i want to run a 200mg per week test cycle, so i'm gonna get on trt." lmao, i couldn't make this sh1t up if i tried. is this another troll post?

I was thinking the same thing.

Your in shutdown about now and the nads will start to shrivel up. Post up all your labs pre test and 5 weeks in. If your looking for solid gains then do some increased dosing. Let's do this!

 

[jman6]

hey so what happens to your nuts if u stay on trt/hrt forever? lol

 

[Mystere3]

They stop working, often permanently.

 

[kisaj]

"i want to run a 200mg per week test cycle, so i'm gonna get on trt."
lmao, i couldn't make this sh1t up if i tried. is this another troll post?

Some of these guys are just plain scary in their thinking.

 

[Cronos1247]

they begin to resemble peanuts more than testicles.
dont get me wrong, it is possible to regain testosterone release from the gonads after trt. i'm gonna have to research this more and i'm sure there are studies. it sounds like a bad idea but some of the evidence suggest otherwise. idk yet and there may be a permanent effect on the pituitary. idk that either. its well known that some pro BB's have permanent suppression after stopping the juice. maybe its dose dependent?
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/26/14877.full.pdf

Unless my Doctor is giving me misinformation (because I already asked him this), he's telling me that once I go off TRT everything should return to normal (whether he's lying or not, I don't know, but he's a Dr. so I have to somewhat hope he knows what he's talking about). Obviously he would supplement with Clomid and/or HCG if I do decide to come off.

You're going to get testicular atrophy REGARDLESS of whether or not you go on TRT if you plan on taking test, so that (while being strictly an aesthetic inconvenience) isn't really even a relevant reason or deciding factor when considering.

I'm not looking for validation on getting on TRT, just information on whether the risk vs reward factor is there or not. I've always considered cycling and yearly I go into these research and planning modes where I'll compile everything I've read about what to run on pre/post and during cycle, etc. and I've never wanted it to get too complicated or crazy. I've also considered that once you go into steroids, etc. in general, you're going to have to stay on if you want to keep any gains you've made.

 

[kisaj]

You aren't asking an apples to apples question, though. For those of us that legitimately need to be on it, yes it is worth everything. You don't need to be on it and aren't going to see the rewards that we do. That is the point we are trying to make in that you are deciding to put your self on something you need for the rest of your life instead of working with what your body is creating naturally. To stay on TRT, your doctor will require labs be done to monitor you, it isn't like some free for all that you just go pick up test all the time and just do what you want. You are looking to screw up your system at the nice young age of 29, just so you can run a cycle easier.

 

[Cronos1247]

A few of his videos I know Lobliner has said multiple times, if you plan on going on, stay on if you want to retain your gains. Do you agree with what he's saying in this video? Sort of off topic but a little relevant I think lol

[video=youtube;6I5rVqX7DwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=6I5rVqX7DwE[/video]

 

[Cronos1247]

You aren't asking an apples to apples question, though. For those of us that legitimately need to be on it, yes it is worth everything. You don't need to be on it and aren't going to see the rewards that we do. That is the point we are trying to make in that you are deciding to put your self on something you need for the rest of your life instead of working with what your body is creating naturally. To stay on TRT, your doctor will require labs be done to monitor you, it isn't like some free for all that you just go pick up test all the time and just do what you want. You are looking to screw up your system at the nice young age of 29, just so you can run a cycle easier.

I see what you're saying. Figuring that a standard cycle is anywhere from 10-12 weeks, I could treat this as a cycle and just run PCT at 12 weeks in your opinion? Also, what would you deem a legitimate test deficiency at? I know he gave me a bound test range of anywhere from 300-1000 I think it was and I came in at 359 on my last check.

 

[Mystere3]

You don't treat a number, you treat symptoms.

 

[emantest]

I see what you're saying. Figuring that a standard cycle is anywhere from 10-12 weeks, I could treat this as a cycle and just run PCT at 12 weeks in your opinion? Also, what would you deem a legitimate test deficiency at? I know he gave me a bound test range of anywhere from 300-1000 I think it was and I came in at 359 on my last check.

If you were running a cycle yes but your doing a trt dose and it's pointless to pct a trt dose, why do it in the first place.

 

[kisaj]

I just don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this. You DO NOT run pct on TRT. Even if you wanted to, you would go into your doc and he would see you are shut down and wonder what the hell you are doing. You are either on TRT or you are not. You do not need it and are trying to abuse the system and make it harder for people that actually do need it.

You obviously don't get it and aren't going to stop until we all tell you to do it, so what are you waiting for.

 

[napalm]

Hey guys, what's going on?

 

[kisaj]

Nothing much, just hanging out.

 

[napalm]

Yeah, I'm getting ready to blow out of work so I can get my kid to her aau volleyball on time.

So, is this another kid who wants to do a permacycle and call it trt?

 

[Cronos1247]

I just don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this. You DO NOT run pct on TRT. Even if you wanted to, you would go into your doc and he would see you are shut down and wonder what the hell you are doing. You are either on TRT or you are not. You do not need it and are trying to abuse the system and make it harder for people that actually do need it.

You obviously don't get it and aren't going to stop until we all tell you to do it, so what are you waiting for.

Ok, what if we don't call it TRT. Lets call my source "Dr. X". If I continue taking say 200mg a week for 10-12 weeks from Dr. X and then stop and run PCT. How is this any different than me getting 200mg a week of test from another source and then taking it for 10-12 weeks and running PCT?

If you're saying because the dose is too low for you to personally consider it a cycle, I understand. But I'm not getting where you're differentiating why or why I cannot go on PCT because it's labeled as TRT as opposed to me getting test from somewhere else. Honestly, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I'm always looking to learn more about what I don't fully understand.

 

[Mystere3]

What's going to be your rationale to your dr about stopping TRT, which you are supposed to be taking for low testosterone? It's not like your going to fix that in 12 weeks? TRT is supposed to be taken forever.

 

[Cronos1247]

What's going to be your rationale to your dr about stopping TRT, which you are supposed to be taking for low testosterone? It's not like your going to fix that in 12 weeks? TRT is supposed to be taken forever.

It's not my normal Dr, just one of the Low T Clinic chains that are everywhere around me. If I stop going, at most their offices will call me to schedule my next appointment and I'll either not answer or tell them I opted out. That shouldn't be an issue since the Dr. is just some random one that I see for 2 minutes once a week until the girl comes in and gives me my shot.

 

[kisaj]

It's not my normal Dr, just one of the Low T Clinic chains that are everywhere around me. If I stop going, at most their offices will call me to schedule my next appointment and I'll either not answer or tell them I opted out. That shouldn't be an issue since the Dr. is just some random one that I see for 2 minutes once a week until the girl comes in and gives me my shot.

Ok, I can't believe I am saying this, but I actually understand your rationale since you have no ties to the Dr and wouldn't be going back. However, it is not worth shutting yourself down for 200mg a week. That will likely put you just over the top normal range for the majority of the week, but it has been shown that comparably, gains you can see in the normal range to just outside of it are minimal. Can you see gains- hell yes. But you are not going to see gains that are too far out of what you could see by getting your normal test levels up a bit because like has been said- you are not a candidate for TRT at your level- especially since you only tested it once.

If I were not on TRT, I would not run a cycle unless I was going all out.

 

[Mystere3]

I mean, you could probably blast SD or something for 4 weeks and not need a PCT, and hopefully when you're tested in 3 months your bloods aren't too far out of whack and your dr doesn't cut you off. Otherwise I don't understand what you're gaining.

 

[T-Bone]

The risk outweighs the reward at your age. You are not going to make much better gains than you would naturally at age 29. It just doesn't make sense. If a TRT "Doctor" prescribed it to you at your age, they obviously don't care one bit about your health. They are just "selling it". Those life extension/anti-aging clinics are just salespeople pretty much. At least that is what I've read.

 

[T-Bone]

By the way does your PCP know about this at all?

 

[emantest]

It's not my normal Dr, just one of the Low T Clinic chains that are everywhere around me. If I stop going, at most their offices will call me to schedule my next appointment and I'll either not answer or tell them I opted out. That shouldn't be an issue since the Dr. is just some random one that I see for 2 minutes once a week until the girl comes in and gives me my shot.

Am I reading this wrong but are you having self inject anxiety? Also what is the fixation with wanting a smaller dose? Less sides, less gains or no gains? Let's get to the bottom of this.

 

[Cronos1247]

Am I reading this wrong but are you having self inject anxiety? Also what is the fixation with wanting a smaller dose? Less sides, less gains or no gains? Let's get to the bottom of this.

No shot anxiety at all, it's just their protocol for administering the test (I wasn't given the option to do self injections).

The smaller dose came from a few guys on a similar forum advising it. I started off with wanting to do a standard cycle that is laid in Anabolics 10th edition by William Llewellyn's that was basically a tapering approach, starting at around 300mg and tapering to 500 over an 8-10 week period. From what I've gathered every forum has advocates of smaller dosing, large dosing, not tapering, tapering, etc. and everyone has their reasons to be for or against it so it makes it pretty difficult to decipher which is actually the best route to take. I settled on the smaller dosing because most stuff that people get from unreliable sources is more than likely under dosed (your 500mg is probably closer to 250-300mg in actuality, etc.). Being that I'm getting it direct from the Doctor I don't have to worry about the product being under dosed, and I didn't want to get too crazy on my first cycle and experience too many sides so I kept it mild.

I'm also not saying ALL gear is under dosed, just going off what I've read about a lot of sources.

 

[Cronos1247]

By the way does your PCP know about this at all?

No. My insurance does because it was approved, but my actual PCP doesn't (I see him maybe once every 2-3 years?).

 

[Cronos1247]

is 200mg per week all that the clinic will give you? i always assumed that part of their gimmick is that they would give you more and other drugs also. i read somewhere that a guy was getting deca and test and ancilliaries from his clinic. i mean i thought these guys were just dealers. like the pain management clinics. if you really have low testosterone, you could just go to a real doctor. why mess with the clinic? i'll bet that they will give you whatever you want if you have the cash. the pain clinics will and people even die from that.

Basically he just keeps tapering up by 10mg per week until I say stop. He's said he could prescribe me HCG if I wanted as well as clomid. I haven't really straight out asked him what all is offered.

 

[Mystere3]

Ask him for some tren, gh, eq, and mast.

 

[kisaj]

It is so ridiculous to me that I can't wrap my head around these clinics. Here, you can try this and this and maybe a little of that. How much do want to spend?

 

[Cronos1247]

I was under the impression that the guy running the TRT clinic was an M.D., but now I'm going to check his card...

I do think it's a little funny that the entire staff at the clinic is made up of young attractive girls aside from the clinic Doctor.

 

[T-Bone]

No. My insurance does because it was approved, but my actual PCP doesn't (I see him maybe once every 2-3 years?).

Wow, so your doctor doesn't even know. That's just not right. Your doc should know every detail about you. Like I said it seems those anti-aging clinic people could care less about your health.