Puzzled on lack of gains
- 02-08-2005, 01:03 AM
Puzzled on lack of gains
Ok, been on cycle for 21 days now, and kind of puzzled on why I havent gained more weight than what I have so far, gained 6lbs so far. Here is what I have been running:
150mg test prop eod first 18 days,
600mg/week test enanthate last 21 days
30mg/day superdrol last 21 days
300mg/week EQ last 21 days
100mg tren eod for past 10 days
50mg dbol/day for past 13 days
The test enanthate is just starting to kick in so that is why I dropped the prop when my nipples started hurting. Just yesterday I dropped the superdrol. But I figured being on test and superdrol for the last 3 weeks, tren for the last 10 days or so, and dbol for the last 13 days I would have gained more than 6lbs. I am not bloated at all really, holding a little water in my abdomen but thats it. Strength is going up ok. I think I just need to give it some more time, but I was just expecting more since everyone seems to be putting on so much weight with superdrol, then i throw some dbol in there along with test....geez...I dunno.
Here is my diet:
Breakfast: 40g whey, 1 cup oatmeal, 4 eggs
Meal 2: 1lb hamburger, 1/2 box mac and cheese, 32 oz milk
Meal 3: 2 peanut butter and honey sandwiches w/ 48 oz milk
Meal 4: 1 can tuna, 1 cup brown rice, 40g whey, 24oz milk
Meal 5(PWO): 50g whey, 40g carbs from gatorade
Meal 6: 1lb hamburger, 1/2 box mac and cheese, 32 oz milk
Meal 7(before bed) 48 oz milk
Definetly plenty of calories in there, I did a 24hr recall for one of my nutrition classes and came up with a total of 7750 cals, 595g protein, and 530g of carbs, and that was not including protein shakes. My metabolism is pretty damn fast, I am not super lean, prolly round 10%, but have a crazy hell of a time gaining weight. My last 3 ph cycles I maxed out at weight at 202-205lbs for all of them, never could break that range, so I dont know if I am maxed out or what. I would think I could break through that range with all this **** though. I am 100% sure my training is in check, I will post it if you wish, but it is getting late so I will on your request. The way I posted the compounds may seem confusing, but this is the whole cycle layout that I am running:
1-2 150mg test prop eod
1-10 600mg test enan/week
1-10 300mg eq week
2-7 50mg dbol/day
2-7 100mg tren eod
1-3 30mg superdrol/day
Maybe I am just expecting too much too soon, what are your opinions on this situation?
- 02-08-2005, 01:26 AM
I am shocked you have not gained more taking all that food and drugs. You may be one of the unfortunates that simply do not respond well to drugs. On the other hand, have you recently taken any time off to help decondition your body? You may be suffering from too much training and stress on the body over a long period of time.
- 02-08-2005, 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
595g Pro x 4 (4cal per gram) = 2380cal
530g Carb x 4 (4cal per gram) = 2120cal
For a total of 4500 cals. Now, if the remaining calories from the 7750 (3250cal) were from fat, then you would have to injest 361g of fat per day! So this would be your total:
595g Pro x 4 (4cal per gram) = 2380cal
530g Carb x 4 (4cal per gram) = 2120cal
391g Fat x 9 (9cal per gram) = 3250cal
For a grand total of 7750cal per day. I could be badly mistaken, but I thought I'd bring it up. As for your chemicals, you are taking plenty, so there are no worries there. I hope this helps. Good luck.
02-08-2005, 11:07 AM
The 7750 I calculated wasnt necessarily for the foods I listed, it was just one day of food that I ate during this cycle that I had to turn in for a homework assignment. On that day I consumed 3lbs of beef, so that upped it a bit. Even without that extra pound of beef, that should still be plenty of cals to grow. And yes I did ingest over 300g of fat, I know that is not exactly healthy, but eating a few lbs of beef a day, a gallon of milk, and a couple boxes of mac and cheese the fat piles up pretty quickly.Originally Posted by MassLabKits
Size- The week before the cycle I deloaded, no heavy compound movements, and just a few iso exercises to get some blood flowing that week. Only went into the gym like 3 times that week, for 30 minutes, and not very high intensity so I dont think I am overtrained, although I do seem to overtrain quite easily, I have learned to understand my body when it has had too much.
02-08-2005, 11:32 AM
goddamn, that's a lot of eating. i put down about half of that and feel like i'm going to puke. but yeah, you should definatley be gaining with the gear and diet setup. 7750 cals, jesus.
02-08-2005, 11:40 AM
BTW, I am doing absolutely no cardio, I walk to class but that is about it. Weighed in at 202 this morning, so up a half pound lol.
02-08-2005, 12:01 PM
seriously, get yourself a wheel-chair and i'll push you to class...or into on-coming traffic. Next, hook up an I.V. to an artery of your choice and have a constant flow of gravy to your system, I prefer the dark gravy since it's thinner; you should eventually grow. And finally, when you are finishing a meal of mac-and cheese go ahead and eat the box, the plate, the pan you cooked it in, the spoon you used, and possibly a small child that might be innocently passing by. Good-Luck Buddy!
02-08-2005, 12:05 PM
Ditto that.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
When I was in school and playing ball we were on mega calories upwards of 7K/day but no way in hell was I eating it 100% cleanly.
Nothing a few big Mac's and Wendy's Triples can't get you over the top though
02-08-2005, 12:20 PM
The average male 18-25 can naturally produce 2lbs of muscle a year.lol
You gained 6lbs in 21 days.Time and consistency is the key.
Dont change anything. It takes time,let your body get use to what your feeding
it and the drugs your using.
Take the advice of the other posts and stick with it. Youll be huge in no time.
02-08-2005, 12:21 PM
true, i'm getting about 3300 all clean right now and it tastes like ****. feel like i have to puke after every meal. everything is cooked on that goddamn george foreman that leaves me with a dried up hunk of meat. i miss the days of double-double's, double whoppers w/cheese, double western bacon cheeseburgers........i'm noticing a lot of doubles, perhaps i've found what got me into this situation.Originally Posted by houseman
02-08-2005, 12:25 PM
Hahah! I hear you man.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
When I I broky my neck, I could nolonger play but I still kept eating the way I was eating because A) I was used to eating that much; and B) eating less made me feel as though I was gonna die.
I got real fat, real quick. Especally because I wasn't active.
Bulking sure is fun though
02-08-2005, 12:29 PM
i'm never bulking again. not in that fashion anyway. it's just too much of a pain to lose it afterwards. lean bulks and cutters from now on.
02-08-2005, 02:49 PM
Bah. Cutters! Eat piggy eat
I am now consuming about 9k calories a day (2 gallons of fat free chocolate milk, a pound of pasta, 2 pounds of cottage cheese, a 2 liter protein shake with ~4 scoops of protein, 2 cans of turkey chili, and some rice or oatmeal, plus misc random **** that changes from day to day...) and life is good In a couple of weeks when I get back on, I'm gonna push it to ~12k I think
Needless to say people who see me eat are in awe.
02-08-2005, 03:17 PM
goddamn, i just had a 7oz chicken breast with broccoli and i want to puke, at 280lbs. 12,000 calories is ****ing looney. you must have a metabolism out of this world or a job that requires you to lift trees and buildings all day.Originally Posted by exnihilo
02-08-2005, 03:20 PM
LOL. you serious?Originally Posted by Beelzebub
I just finished 14oz of chicken and 10oz of steamed broccoli.
Still hungry *laughs*
02-08-2005, 03:23 PM
I've never seen you eat... and I am in aweOriginally Posted by exnihilo
02-08-2005, 03:43 PM
yeah, dead serious. i dunno. i can put down a large pizza by myself but this clean food just fills me up quick. guess it's a good thing, still gaining.Originally Posted by houseman
02-08-2005, 05:22 PM
man beelze i know exactly what you mean .. for some reason eating clean my appetite is basically nonexistant
i could easily eat 3 mcdonald's double cheeseburgers, a chicken fajita, fries and an apple pie and love every second
as soon as i have to eat some ****ty top round steak and spinach .. two bites in i'm full ... it sucks
02-08-2005, 05:33 PM
I've found that as I eat more, my metabolism has ramped itself up - I mostly ride a bike rather than drive since I live near the center of my city, but other than that I'm pretty sedentary. I'm gaining LBM at a pretty decent clip now, and my waist has stayed the same size (though my abs are less defined than they were, I've lost some visceral fat). I can't wait to get on cycle and really pack it away Though I'm at a loss as to what I'm going to add to get up to 12k while keeping it clean and keeping the variety up.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
02-08-2005, 05:39 PM
beer and cheeseburgers.
02-08-2005, 05:41 PM
lol I just had 7 protien pancakes with 7 tbs of natty PB, 3 hardboiled eggs, glass of milk, and my favorite, carrots. Thats just my mid-day class snack. 30 minutes and its nearly dinner time. I'm pushing around 6 meals a day, not including my eggs b4 bed and my middle of night/right when i wake up 1/2 protien shake. All clean too. Had to re-evaulate it to find out why I wasn't gaining enough, and discovered I was putting in 4800ish calories, and less than 900 of those were fat.
02-08-2005, 06:24 PM
OK. Give it up. How do you make protein pancakes, and how much protein is in each one? I have been craving pancakes lately, but Aunt Jemima just won't cut it.Originally Posted by BOHICA
02-08-2005, 08:26 PM
I have a couple recipes for protein pancakes, one I got off the boards here. The other I designed myself. Anyway here are the recipes.
#1: 1/2 cup of oatmeal, 5 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 1 packet sweet and low, splash of milk mix together, put in a pan
#2: Vanilla Protein Powder, Aunt Jemimah's whole wheat pancake mix, milk, egg, olive oil (For this one, I put in 1 1/2 cups of mix, 6 scoops of Protein Powder, then regular everything else. With the Protien powder in it, it seems to get a little runnier hence the extra mix. Hope you enjoy.
I'm currently doing #2 since I'm on a bulker and need the oils.
02-08-2005, 09:24 PM
what type of gear are you on.....
are you on UG labs gear or pharm grade gear? and when did u order your test e? i would tell u to pm me your source but pms are off...sucks....
02-08-2005, 10:36 PM
is the stuff bunk? that much should make big ron grow a pound or 2. wish i had your tren.
02-08-2005, 11:16 PM
Your diet is obviously sufficient, how is your routine? You could be one of those people who overtrains with more than 2-3 days a week of training....Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
02-08-2005, 11:17 PM
I doubt it's bunk. Look up some of his other threads...this isn't the only time he hasn't responded. I'm bumbed for him...Originally Posted by chasec
02-08-2005, 11:34 PM
maybe a cetain fellar swiped his tren leaving behind a vial of sheep urine.
02-09-2005, 12:02 AM
Damn, no wonder that burned so bad going in and my shoulder is all swole to hell, I was wondering why you were a little moody lately knoxOriginally Posted by knox
I am sure the gear is not fake, I can feel it, my strength is going up, and my libido is sky high. Like I said earlier, my past 3ph cycles all got me up to the 202-206lb range, never could break that, I am really confused. I am just not going to think about it and give it some more time, keep eating a ton and training hard. I will post my routine tomorrow, I gotta study for a test now.
Chasec- the tren is just a fina conversion, not hard to come by at all...everything is legal to buy, just illegal once it is mixed.
Looks like its been about 2hrs since my last meal, time for a half gallon of milk.
02-09-2005, 12:07 AM
The gear is all UG lab. Dbol is hellfire labs, tren is fina conversion, and the test and eq are homebrewed by a guy who just buys powders and makes his own. He is in pre-med/chemistry and his professors gave him advice on how to make it as painless as possible, I thought that was pretty cool.Originally Posted by Boss_K
02-09-2005, 12:50 AM
Can you post your training routine, Nate Dawg???
02-09-2005, 01:02 AM
hey edit out the source in your post man, the mods are gunna get on you for that.
02-09-2005, 09:31 AM
my bad, thought you had ahold of the enanthate. i was thinking of doing a tren conversion; i make my test from powders.Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
02-09-2005, 09:32 AM
i didn't think they would get on you for posting which lab made it, that happens frequently.Originally Posted by hethcliff
02-09-2005, 09:50 AM
How long before you started this cycle was your last anabolic cycle? And what's your height? I can't imagine eating so much and taking all that gear and not gaining more.
02-09-2005, 11:58 AM
It was about 11 weeks between my last cycle and this one. Probably should have waited longer, but I figured what the hell. I am 6' tall.
kwyckemyndo- I will post my routine here in about 2-3 hrs, right now I have a biochem test that is going to kick my ass.
02-09-2005, 04:20 PM
Ok, here is my training cycle right now. I am preparing to do a powerlifting meet, this upcoming saturday will mark 5 weeks out, so it is getting close. I have it set up for a 6 day split, but usually dont make all 6, depends on how wore down I feel. I usually skip the bicep day. Its kind of a westside style program.
Monday- Max Effort leg day
1 exercise up to 1RM-Free squat, box squat, deadlift, rack pull, good morning(alternate every week)
1 exercise up to 3-5RM- for example last week I deadlifted to a max then did olympic squats up to a 3RM
Leg curls 3x8-12
Leg extensions 3x15-20
Hyperextensions(if back isnt too fried)
Weighted situps-3x12, weighted obliques-3x12-15
Pulldowns wide grip 4-5x10
cable rows/bentover rows 4-5x10
Reverse close grip pulldowns 2-3x12
One arm db rows 2x12
Wednesday- Speed bench/shoulders/traps
Speed bench 9x3-50-60%1RM (if my chest doesnt feel recovered i will skip these)
Arnold press 4x5-8
side db raises 2x10
rear db raises 3x12
shrugs pyramid weight up to 8-10RM
upright rows 2x12
Barbell curls- 5x6-12
Hammer curls- 4x5-8
Alt. db curls 2x10
concentration curls 2x15
Friday- Speed squat/pull
speed squat 8x2 50-60%1RM
speed pull 8x1 50-60% 1RM
leg curls 3x12
leg extensions 3x15-20
Saturday- Max effort bench/tris
Flat bench up to 3RM
Board press(4-5 board) up to 3RM
Flat DB bench-2x8
Incline DB fly-3x12
Overhead DB extension 3x5-8
Tri ext 4x6-10
skull crushers 3x8-10 (I sometimes switch the order of these exercises, if my triceps are too wore out from all the benching I cut down on the volume)
Thats about it, for each exercises I usually only do one set to failure, usually skip thursdays if I am feeling too tore down, and sometimes cut down the volume on my speed squat/pull day if I am not feeling recovered. What do you guys think?
02-09-2005, 05:04 PM
Well, that routine is pretty intense. Lots of high intensity lifts and pretty damn high volume with almost no rest. Sounds fun But, it could be hampering your growth, to tell you the truth. However, I'm not an expert by any means, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
That's so high intensity that I would try to go down to something basic on a three day split with low volume, but keep that high intensity! Here is a very simple routine that I've been using over the past three weeks, thanks to exmgq. I will warn you, at first I felt flat and my arms shrank 3/8", but I was told that it was just my body adjusting to the smaller workload by not storing as much in the sarcoplasm, etc. And it appears that was the case. My arms are back up to normal size, which means technically they may have grown But, I'm not going to think too hard on it. Here's my routine and believe it or not, no I have not shrunk! I feel I've actually benifited:
Squats 2 x 5
Box squats 2 x 4
Leg presses 2 x 5 (pick 2 of the three listed as long as one is squats)
Calves (your choice of exercise) 2 x 10
Tuesday or Wednesday:
Wide grip flat bench 2 x 6 (index fingers on the rings)
Decline medium grip bench 2 x 6 (pinkies on the rings)
Weighted dips 2 x 10
Upright rows or side laterals 1 x 10
Dead lifts (rotate variations each week) 2 x 5
reverse hypers, pull thrus or glute ham raise 1 x 10-15
Bent over rows 2 x 4
Reverse grip narrow grip pull downs 2 x 6
Standing wide grip curls 2 x 8 (or your favorite curl here)
That's what I'm doing until I get all of my compound movements down better. I.E. Ass to the floor with a pause squats, pull and reset with heavy weight on deads, etc, etc. Then I'm going to move on to something like this usind doggcrapp principles and hit my bodyparts with 1 set 2x a week instead of the above 2 sets 1x a week.
Week 1, Day 1
flat bench wide grip RP 11-15
reverse grip bench smyth RP 11-15
shoulder press RP 11-15
hacks 20 SS
mule raises calves 10-12 SS
Week 1, Day 2
rack pulls 8-10 SS
reverse narrow grip pull down RP 11-15
seated cable rows RP 11-15
DB curls RP 11-15
hammer curls 12 SS
Week 1, Day 3
decline bench PR 11-15
close grip bench RP 11-15
db military RP 11-15
squats 8-10 SS
seated calves 10-12 SS
Week 2, Day 1
SLDL 8-10 SS
wide grip pull downs RP 11-15
Bent over rows RP 11-15
hammer machine curls RP 11-15
cable hammers 12 SS
Week 2, Day 2
dips RP 11-15
cable push downs SS 20
shoulder machine RP 11-15
leg press 20 SS
standing calf raises.10-12 SS
Week 2, Day 3
reverse hypers 15 SS
Hammer grip pull downs RP 11-15
high hammer row RP 11-15
straight bar curls RP 11-15
spider curls 12 SS
(above routines were put together by exmgq.)
You can always try something like the above out for a couple months and see if things change. B/C with those calories and that kinda juicin' you should be throwing no weight. I've seen your stats and you're pretty strong, so I don't think it's genetic...it's probably just good 'ol overtraining.
02-09-2005, 05:39 PM
nate, i think you're overtraining a bit ... it doesn't seem like your CNS ever gets a chance to recover and i DEFINITELY think that's what is hindering your gains ... maybe some type of lower frequency westside barbell program would work really well for what you want
02-09-2005, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the reply kwyckemynd00, and glenihan. Like you said I think that is possibly just way too much volume, yesterday and today I have been tired as hell, so maybe I am starting to get overtrained. I plan on lowering my volume way down for the rest of this week.
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