Strength cycle

[SquatsAndOats]

Hey guys I'm sort of new to the prohormone game. Did a 20 week test cycle with a dbol kick start and finished it with RPNs havoc in October, but that's about it as far as aas/PH use. I did take some anadrol and winny for a couple weeks around week 10 but that was for ****s and gigs. I am also currently using prolactrone and formestane and loving both.

Anyway the more I'm reading about PHs the more I see their value as "un tapped" or underused tools in the aas game.

I'm looking for something that will give me more strength than size (think halotestin or anavar) I'm sitting at 207 14% body fat. My goal is to recomp while upping strength, while staying in range to cut to the 198 class. Preferably stacking a strong compound like super dmz 2.0 or 3.0 for weeks 1-4 with a non or less liver toxic PH for weeks 1-8. I would also like it to be non estrogenic, and for my dick to work (might use formestane for this at a very small dose throughout).

If the above is too expensive or complicate I might just say **** it and do super dmz weeks 1-4 with test prop 100mg EOD. I'm just looking for something for 8 weeks though and injecting EOD is really annoying.

Oh and if I go the PH route I'll have a cycle assist and either route I take I'll have some pharma clomid on hand.

Thanks guys.

 

[bel1]

you'd be better off pinning tbh, if you are looking for a less toxic ph for strength ill recommend trenavar.. for dosing usually go 90mg and above some run it up to 150mg

 

[SquatsAndOats]

you'd be better off pinning tbh, if you are looking for a less toxic ph for strength ill recommend trenavar.. for dosing usually go 90mg and above some run it up to 150mg

Yea I wax thinking if probably have to pin but I kinda want to run a PH only to see what the fuss is about. I also forgot to mention I have a little bit of gyno from my last cycle. Would any dht based PHs help?
As far as trenavar is that the same as trenazone? I've heard mixed reviews on both.
How's Super dmz weeks 1-4 and trenavar or trenazone weeks 1-6 or 1-8 (depending on cost)

 

[bel1]

trenavar and trenazone are both different compounds, the latter is better pinned or used as a trans dermal. They are similar in terms of effectiveness if you wanna go for all oral go with trenavar, sdmz weeks 1-4 and trenavar or trenazone weeks 1-6 or 1-8 is fine but i think it isn't smart to run so many compounds for your first ph run, but it is fine since many people have done so.
As for the gyno, for that very reason I don't recommend adding the tvar, and run an AI on cycle, formestane should do fine too.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

trenavar and trenazone are both different compounds, the latter is better pinned or used as a trans dermal. They are similar in terms of effectiveness if you wanna go for all oral go with trenavar, sdmz weeks 1-4 and trenavar or trenazone weeks 1-6 or 1-8 is fine but i think it isn't smart to run so many compounds for your first ph run, but it is fine since many people have done so.
As for the gyno, for that very reason I don't recommend adding the tvar, and run an AI on cycle, formestane should do fine too.

Thanks you. I plan on taking formestane throughout. What are some dht prohormones that might help with the gyno? Is super dmz 2.0/3.0 one of them? I know 3.0 has alpha 1 in it.

 

[Mystere3]

For a strength cycle you could try:

1-4 dmz 2.0 2 caps/day
1-8 trenavar 60 60 60 60 120 120 120 120
S4 50 mg weeks 1-8
Caber
Keep letro on hand

Weeks 9-12
Osta 10 mg
Novla 40/40/20/20
Daa
Formastanzol

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Mithras could be great for strength... Especially the new nanoparticulated version that comes out in a week or two. But so is Halotestin. Stack either with transdermal dienolone (Dienazone) and see that strength going up!

Nice to see fellow powerlifters here.

 

[superbeast668]

Cyanostane. Trenavar is worthless unless you can dose it at 300+.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Cyanostane. Trenavar is worthless unless you can dose it at 300+.

Yeah, trenavar is expensive when dosed properly but Dienazone or Trenazone at 2-3ml/day is great.

 

[Mystere3]

Cyanostane. Trenavar is worthless unless you can dose it at 300+.

Meh, I've had good luck with epi/tren with the tren dosed at even 60 (much better results than epi alone). Of course it won't be as good as tren ace (I've run both) but has less sides as well.

That'd be an extremely strong cycle with sdmz 2.0.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Thanks for the replies guys. Is cyostane a dht/non estrogenic compound? I was also looking at stanabol(?) the precursor to winny. Unless it's as toxic as winny is

 

[jbryand101b]

Cynostane is 2cyano, 17a methyl dht

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Thanks for the replies guys. Is cyostane a dht/non estrogenic compound? I was also looking at stanabol(?) the precursor to winny. Unless it's as toxic as winny is

Prostanozolol is pretty much worthless, it won't give you strength guys you're looking for...

 

[jbryand101b]

Prostanozolol is pretty much worthless, it won't give you strength guys you're looking for...

It isn't worthless.

Grab 2 bottles of tr3n from olympus, or tropical dienolone.
And use together without worry of gyno.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

It isn't worthless.

Grab 2 bottles of tr3n from olympus, or tropical dienolone.
And use together without worry of gyno.

No, it isn't worthless but it probably is not something that powerlifter would want. It is dry, yes. It is DHT derived, yes. It is somewhat anabolic, yes. But it won't make your strength skyrocket the way Halotestin or dienolone does.

 

[jbryand101b]

No, it isn't worthless but it probably is not something that powerlifter would want. It is dry, yes. It is DHT derived, yes. It is somewhat anabolic, yes. But it won't make your strength skyrocket the way Halotestin or dienolone does.

It is only useful with nor androgens.

And will work excellent with dienolone.

I wish ug labs would release non methyl winny with the 3ketone, not thp ether.

Then you could run it the full injectable cycle to stay dry and gyno free.
Ai's do nothing for pr interaction.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Hey guys. I was looking for something that I could run alongside super DMZ that I could run for 8 weeks, instead of just the 4 with dmz. Would dienolone satisfy that? I was also looking at androhard but I can't seem to find it anymore.
I appreciate all the help and discussion btw. Other threads I've been on have been less than helpful.

 

[Mystere3]

Stano, trenavar at lower dose, ostarine, s4 are all options.

Hey guys. I was looking for something that I could run alongside super DMZ that I could run for 8 weeks, instead of just the 4 with dmz. Would dienolone satisfy that? I was also looking at androhard but I can't seem to find it anymore.
I appreciate all the help and discussion btw. Other threads I've been on have been less than helpful.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Hey guys. I was looking for something that I could run alongside super DMZ that I could run for 8 weeks, instead of just the 4 with dmz. Would dienolone satisfy that? I was also looking at androhard but I can't seem to find it anymore.
I appreciate all the help and discussion btw. Other threads I've been on have been less than helpful.

Dienolone is probably your best bet. It's more cost effective than trenavar. If you're afraid of libido loss, you can throw in Androhard or Stano-drol as well.

 

[Mystere3]

Also LGD-4033, although that'd be pretty suppressive.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Also LGD-4033, although that'd be pretty suppressive.

I did LGD-4033 and SARM S4 stack lately. It was good but not nearly as good as prohormones and steroids are - and much more pricey.

 

[Mystere3]

I did LGD-4033 and SARM S4 stack lately. It was good but not nearly as good as prohormones and steroids are - and much more pricey.

They're ideal for stacking though, no hepatotoxicity.

 

[jbryand101b]

Hey guys. I was looking for something that I could run alongside super DMZ that I could run for 8 weeks, instead of just the 4 with dmz. Would dienolone satisfy that? I was also looking at androhard but I can't seem to find it anymore.
I appreciate all the help and discussion btw. Other threads I've been on have been less than helpful.

Super dmz is already stacked.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Dienolone is probably your best bet. It's more cost effective than trenavar. If you're afraid of libido loss, you can throw in Androhard or Stano-drol as well.

I was going to use a light dose of formestane, specifically formeron for libido. Will I need some sort of prolactin control with dienolone?

 

[g0hardorgohom]

you can find a good deal on it if you shop around.
2 or 3ml of dienazone a day aint cheap either lol.

Yeah they aren't but results will be much better than with SARMs even though SARMs are good too. I used the sponsor which advertises on this board. For the price of 3 bottles of SARMs (1 month worth of one SARM and 2 months worth of other SARM) you can get 5-6 bottles of Dienazone.

I was going to use a light dose of formestane, specifically formeron for libido. Will I need some sort of prolactin control with dienolone?

Formeron is great product to keep estrogen in check. Odds are that you won't need prolactin control... I didn't need any kind of prolactin control products when I was on injectable trenbolone - and I used Formeron as on-cycle AI too. Of course they're always good to have on hand just in case.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Yeah they aren't but results will be much better than with SARMs even though SARMs are good too. I used the sponsor which advertises on this board. For the price of 3 bottles of SARMs (1 month worth of one SARM and 2 months worth of other SARM) you can get 5-6 bottles of Dienazone.



Formeron is great product to keep estrogen in check. Odds are that you won't need prolactin control... I didn't need any kind of prolactin control products when I was on injectable trenbolone - and I used Formeron as on-cycle AI too. Of course they're always good to have on hand just in case.

Thanks for the helps goHard. So I'm looking at:
Super dmz 2.0 or 3.0 weeks 1-4
Cycle assist or something similar weeks 1-4
Trenazone (2-3ml ED) weeks 1-6 or 1-8
Formeron 1-2 pumps weeks 1-6 or 1-8
And clomid pct 4 weeks after with formeron to keep estro down in pct.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Thanks for the helps goHard. So I'm looking at:
Super dmz 2.0 or 3.0 weeks 1-4
Cycle assist or something similar weeks 1-4
Trenazone (2-3ml ED) weeks 1-6 or 1-8
Formeron 1-2 pumps weeks 1-6 or 1-8
And clomid pct 4 weeks after with formeron to keep estro down in pct.

Looks good. Start Trenazone at 2ml ED and up it to 3ml ED when you drop the SDMZ... To keep dem gainz coming.

I'd buy TUDCA for liver support on top of that cycle assist as all the compounds in SDMZ2.0 and 3.0 are pretty harsh to the liver. Watch for that hairline, SDMZ2.0 made me shed and NOTHING has done that to me before.. It that happens, Nizoral shampoo helps! Odds are that you're g2g if you're not prone to it though.

1 pump of Formeron should suffice. Nothing that you're taking aromatizes.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

if you are talking about the ad, i dont think they are a sponsor. its a google ad i believe.
but speaking of that, i just noticed that they have added a Peptide/Research Companies sub forum. maybe now people will quit asking where to get a serm lol.

Ah it may be Google ad then. Thanks for clarification.

It's definitely good that here is research companies subforum now.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Looks good. Start Trenazone at 2ml ED and up it to 3ml ED when you drop the SDMZ... To keep dem gainz coming.

I'd buy TUDCA for liver support on top of that cycle assist as all the compounds in SDMZ2.0 and 3.0 are pretty harsh to the liver. Watch for that hairline, SDMZ2.0 made me shed and NOTHING has done that to me before.. It that happens, Nizoral shampoo helps! Odds are that you're g2g if you're not prone to it though.

1 pump of Formeron should suffice. Nothing that you're taking aromatizes.

Thanks goHard. One last question I promise. Do any of the above convert to dht? I was reading that dht will rape gyno. That was my interest in it. Not sure if being in a "non aromatizeable" state with these compounds along with formeron would do it.

 

[Mystere3]

Msten is a dht derivative. I think you'd be ok with an AI although if you wanted to be safe add inhibit p or caber.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Thanks goHard. One last question I promise. Do any of the above convert to dht? I was reading that dht will rape gyno. That was my interest in it. Not sure if being in a "non aromatizeable" state with these compounds along with formeron would do it.

M-Sten in SDMZ is DHT derived as far as I know... But I really don't think that it'll help with gyno. Aromatase inhibitors like Formeron are your best bet with gyno. I managed to get rid of mine with it

 

[SquatsAndOats]

M-Sten in SDMZ is DHT derived as far as I know... But I really don't think that it'll help with gyno. Aromatase inhibitors like Formeron are your best bet with gyno. I managed to get rid of mine with it

What was your protocol with formeron? I'm using it now and it's great for dryness and it put my test at 1069ngdl but hasn't really changed much in the gyno department

 

[g0hardorgohom]

What was your protocol with formeron? I'm using it now and it's great for dryness and it put my test at 1069ngdl but hasn't really changed much in the gyno department

It depends what I'm running.

Right now I'm on 200mg/week of testosterone, 1 cap/day of SDMZ 2.0 (M-Sten & Dymethazine) and 3 caps/day of Triumphalis and 1 pump (1.5ml) is good and keeps my titties good looking.

When I was on heavily aromatizing compounds (higher dose of testosterone, dianabol and maybe something else) I used it up to 4ml/day and my gyno disappeared. 3ml/day was good when I had already won the fight against my gyno.

Play it by ear... Up the dose and see if it helps with gyno. I've heard people running it much higher than I did.

 

[jbryand101b]

I cant use topicals because of cross contamination. my wife's libido is insatiable, but she also stops having periods, so I know that's not good.

If I was still single picking up chicks, I'd slather that stuff off for cross contamination. kills my libido, but makes hers go crazy.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Letro is definitely the most effective for it but it's harsh stuff.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Letro is definitely the most effective for it but it's harsh stuff.

Funny you say that. I was on some letro from cipla and it didn't really do anything for me after a month but destroy my joints. I'm on formeron now while tapering off letro.

 

[Mystere3]

Have you tried aromasin?

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Funny you say that. I was on some letro from cipla and it didn't really do anything for me after a month but destroy my joints. I'm on formeron now while tapering off letro.

Some cases of gyno are just so bad that they need to be cut out. If letro didn't help (assuming that it was legit letro), odds are that other AI's or SERM's won't help either.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

nolva works good for me, although i definitely need surgery. had it for years. dbol flared it up bad a couple weeks ago and i started aromasin. just kept getting worse. took 40mg of nolva, then 20mg for 3-4 days and it knocked out the pain in one day and shrank the lumps dramatically. nolva makes the sh1t almost completely disappear when i pct on it. but it always comes back eventually.

Hey guys I didn't want to start a new thread for this but I'm having some problems. I've been on formeron 3 pumps a day for about 3 weeks now and my nipples are still itchy and sensitive. I was running letro for about a month at 2.5mg ED and I tapered off slow. That was 3 weeks ago and I started the formeron to prevent rebound, and prolactrone just for its benefits. Then I got some raloxifene from an online pharma company that sells Cipla ralox that has worked for others. Been on 120mg ralox (2 pills) for 5 days and they're still bothering me reall bad. I've been really good About not touching them too.
Any idea what could be causing this? About 6 weeks ago I got a blood test and my test was high and my estro was low and my LH was high and my prolactin was low. Not sure why they itch and ache still. My joints are sore as well. I'm getting symptoms similar to this thread

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/220245-formeron-prolactrone-gyno.html

Anybody know what's up?

 

[SquatsAndOats]

An added note it also seems to intensify when I eat a big carb heavy meal. Though doing Keto didn't help.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

You should really go to see your doctor.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

****. That means it's probably bad right? I had a blood test 8 weeks so and everything was perfect but they still bothered me.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I don't know, I'm not a doctor. It just sounds like they're there to stay if your estrogen and prolactin are already low.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

I don't know, I'm not a doctor. It just sounds like they're there to stay if your estrogen and prolactin are already low.

Them staying is not what I'm too worried about. I'm wondering why they're still sensitive and hurting with my estro and prolactin low. Could I have tapered off letro poorly? Doesn't make since since I've been on formeron this whole time anyways.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

man the old blood work is irrelevant now. sounds like bunk ralox also. probably getting rebound from letro. just start nolva. sh1t works great. use nolva til pain is gone, then aromasin for a few days. if you research formeron you will see what the problem is with it .its not gonna fix your problem.

Letro and nolva are both cipla and bought from the same place, and my nipples were sensitive on the letro too. I'm not sure where to get anything now because I've gotten bunk from RCs and from online pharmacies that were supposed to be legit of my letro or ralox is bunk. Your post about formeron make sense. It has elimated gyno for some people. Live researched it and I'm not to sure what you're talking about, or why you bothered responding if you were basically telling me you're not going to help. That's the point of a board isn't it to help people? Besides I'm getting low estro sides as it is idk how it can be estro rebound. I'm scheduling an appt with the dr for a CBC

 

[SquatsAndOats]

I apologize I thought you said you weren't going to fix my problem. I still don't understand why formeron wouldn't work if it has helped people and I'm getting estro sides.

 

[Mystere3]

How bad is your situation right now? If you have gyno, you could always just go to the dr and ask for a script for a serm to treat gyno, that would be the easiest way to get a legit serm right now,

 

[jack_black]

I apologize I thought you said you weren't going to fix my problem. I still don't understand why formeron wouldn't work if it has helped people and I'm getting estro sides.

are you putting formeron directly on your nipples? That can make them itch. It dries your skin.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Not on my chest. I apply it on my forearms. It's definitely gyno. The cause it's what's ****ing confusing me. Got an appt with the doc tomorrow and hopefully he'll be good to go with bloodwork. Even when they bothered me last time my estro was 12 out of a high of 44 (forget the units), and my test was high and my prolactin was low.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

How bad is your situation right now? If you have gyno, you could always just go to the dr and ask for a script for a serm to treat gyno, that would be the easiest way to get a legit serm right now,

Just got back from the doc. Wouldn't give me a serm cause he's clueless. Basically had to wiki serm and AI. He referred me to an endo and I have a mammogram too so hopefully the endo will know what's up. There's a couple studies on tamox for 3-9 months reduced 80% of gyno in the trials.